Debate Now Is Trump really comparable to Hitler?

[TemplarKormac]

If that's not proof of Trump's racism, nothing is.

Uh, it goes to his racism. Obviously a parallel to Hitler's racism.

So, I need to ask a couple of questions.

Since when is "Mexico" a race?

Since when is "heritage" a race?

Since when is "ancestry" a race?

Let's try this again:

No, Donald Trump Isn't a Racist | The Huffington Post

Quit splitting hairs. Hating Mexicans for no reason is exactly the same as hating Jews. After all, they weren't a "race" either.

Wow, much moral equivalence there.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If that's not proof of Trump's racism, nothing is.

Uh, it goes to his racism. Obviously a parallel to Hitler's racism.

So, I need to ask a couple of questions.

Since when is "Mexico" a race?

Since when is "heritage" a race?

Since when is "ancestry" a race?

Let's try this again:

No, Donald Trump Isn't a Racist | The Huffington Post

Are those serious questions?

Racism/bigotry/xenophobia. They're all symptoms of the same white supremacist disease.

Actually, you just added "bigotry" and "xenophobia" when up until that point your entire argument had been focused on Trump's alleged racism.

You're moving the goalposts.

 

[JQPublic1]

So far, I've heard nothing but words, accusations and insinuations. Is there any actionable proof to suggest Trump will morph into a genocidal dictator with a vendetta against an entire ethno-religious group?

I don't think anyone has claimed that. America is not Europe of the '30s. But I think it is prudent to take notice of certain parallel between populist Nazism of that era and the konservative populism that has taken America by storm today!

 

[JQPublic1]

I'm getting at the kkk and David duke enthusiastically endorsing trump for president.

Both to which he vehemently rejected.

Donald Trump's campaign rejects endorsement of Ku Klux Klan

Your argument thus far is rather specious and devoid of facts.

Just looking at the tite of your link tells it all. Trump's campaign rejecting the KKK endorsement is not the same as Trump personally rejecting the KKK's endorsement. I want to see his orange face fill the TV screen while mouthing these words: " I HEREBY DISAVOW ANY ENDOrSEMENT OF THE KKK."

David Duke is FORMER KKK! He disavowed Duke but not the KKK! Nice try,,you are getting better!

You can't be pleased, can you?

Donald Trump denounces David Duke, KKK - CNNPolitics.com

Not with crude deflections.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Both to which he vehemently rejected.

Donald Trump's campaign rejects endorsement of Ku Klux Klan

Your argument thus far is rather specious and devoid of facts.

Just looking at the tite of your link tells it all. Trump's campaign rejecting the KKK endorsement is not the same as Trump personally rejecting the KKK's endorsement. I want to see his orange face fill the TV screen while mouthing these words: " I HEREBY DISAVOW ANY ENDOrSEMENT OF THE KKK."

David Duke is FORMER KKK! He disavowed Duke but not the KKK! Nice try,,you are getting better!

You can't be pleased, can you?

Donald Trump denounces David Duke, KKK - CNNPolitics.com

Not with crude deflections.

How can you know what's a deflection if you won't even read the link?

 

[JQPublic1]

I challenge you to specifically point to something I said that is a lie or that I cannot backup!

Easy, that he's racist.

Does he believe in the false divisive concept of race?

 

[Coyote]

Thread is reopened. 10 posts have been deleted. This is the second time a moderator has had to intervene.

Debate Now is set up so that the OP can determine what the rules for the debate will be. They are outlined in the first post. Often, they are like the CDZ - no insulting or flaming. If you can't handle it, then Debate Now isn't the place for you.

Those who violated the rules yet again after the first mod intervention are thread banned.

For those who need a reminder - here are the rules for this particular thread:

1) No referring to Trump as anything except by his given name, which can be President Donald Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Donald John Trump, Donald J. Trump, DJT, DT or Donald.
2) No insults.
3) All comparisons must be backed up with real, verifiable historic evidence in comparison with current policy actions or behavior being undertaken by the current administration.

 

[rdean]

Closed for cleaning.

Kleaning?

 

[Coyote]

Closed for cleaning.

Kleaning?

Behave sweetie....

 

[rdean]

Pastor Roger Jimenez
Pastor Steven Anderson
Pastor Kevin Swanson
Pastor Jesse Price
Pastor Charles L. Worley
Pastor Bert Farias
Pastor Jeffrey S. Smith

A list of right wing Christian pastors calling for the murder of American gays.

Trump's Brown Shirts?

Thank God our minority population is to big and Republicans to old and out of shape for Republicans to try and destroy.

Trump is the perfect leader for them. And the most dangerous for the country.

Go to Youtube and watch their "sermons". Very scary.

 

[JQPublic1]

Just looking at the tite of your link tells it all. Trump's campaign rejecting the KKK endorsement is not the same as Trump personally rejecting the KKK's endorsement. I want to see his orange face fill the TV screen while mouthing these words: " I HEREBY DISAVOW ANY ENDOrSEMENT OF THE KKK."

David Duke is FORMER KKK! He disavowed Duke but not the KKK! Nice try,,you are getting better!

You can't be pleased, can you?

Donald Trump denounces David Duke, KKK - CNNPolitics.com

Not with crude deflections.

How can you know what's a deflection if you won't even read the link?

Wellll! the klink wasn't that clear. Trump supposedly said he disavowed David Duke numerous times and added that he also disavowed the KKK at some time in the past. I don't recall hearing him ever disavowing the KKK and the host of Morning Joe , evidently, hadn't heard it either. Otherwise he would have had no need to ask the question.

 

[Coyote]

I find most comparisons of modern day political figures to Hitler to be loathsome. Hitler was a unique evil, who arose under a unique set of circumstances in a way that I hope will never be repeated.

My fear is ... however, that it could be. We're hearing the same rhetoric, the same scapegoating (just different groups), the rise of rightwing populism across the world and with it a concurrent rise in anti-immigrant sentiment and ethnic nationalism. Do I think that could lead to the organized cold blooded genocide of groups such as Hitler's Germany engineered? I don't think so. Do I think it could lead to discrimmination, violence towards, and the stripping of rights from innocent people or at least a willingness to look away? Yes, I fear it could.

Trump is the quintessential populist. He has that in common with Hitler. Trump is adept at managing the emotions of his followers. He characterizes the world in black and white - in an us vs them framework - with "them" being outsiders. He promises safety, prosperity, and a return to a non-existent "golden age" through him and only through him. He inspires a blind allegience that is willing to overlook flaws, lies, and gross inconsistencies. He has an immense but fragile ego that can't tolerate embarressment or contradiction, and is easily played. His personality and behavior share some of the same characteristics as Hitler's. As many populist/nationalistic leaders.

But that doesn't make him Hitler. His policies and governance remain to be seen - he is so contradictory and lies so often, it's impossible to predict. I've not seen sustained hatred towards any particular group. I don't see anything approaching Hitler, nor do I see it in our society. Unlike 1930's Germany, our economy is going great, our unemployment low. Populists usually seek scapegoats but they seldom become mass murderers. Hitler, like Stalin, and a handful of others are rare. Comparing Trump to them is a huge insult to the many who suffered under their regimes.

 

[JQPublic1]

He didn't call anyone a racist, he said that Trump uses divisive language along racial lines that whites eat up.

Uhm, yeah, we call that an insinuation of racism where I come from.

Hate to break it to you, but there are, indeed, racists in the Trump-Believer cult.

Now this is violating the rules of the thread.

Do you think racism exists?

And so is this.

(Yes, racism exists, but it doesn't consist solely of angry conservative white male Trump voters)

It might be noteworthy to observe that Black slaves in America were never perceived as racists nor were the Jews of Nazi Germany. I have yet to see a case where racism originated within any other demographic than wherever German's had influence. A German developed the concept of race and , of course, he placed his own at the pinnacle of racial hierarchy.
Thus in all of mans preceding history, the word "race" was unknown and the concept meaningless. Europeans have embraced it and taken it with them every where they go.

 

[Coyote]

He didn't call anyone a racist, he said that Trump uses divisive language along racial lines that whites eat up.

Uhm, yeah, we call that an insinuation of racism where I come from.

Hate to break it to you, but there are, indeed, racists in the Trump-Believer cult.

Now this is violating the rules of the thread.

Do you think racism exists?

And so is this.

(Yes, racism exists, but it doesn't consist solely of angry conservative white male Trump voters)

It might be noteworthy to observe that Black slaves in America were never perceived as racists nor were the Jews of Nazi Germany. I have yet to see a case where racism originated within any other demographic than wherever German's had influence. A German developed the concept of race and , of course, he placed his own at the pinnacle of racial hierarchy.
Thus in all of mans preceding history, the word "race" was unknown and the concept meaningless. Europeans have embraced it and taken it with them every where they go.

Racism in one form or another existed anywhere human beings existed. Racism, in it's broader definition is nothing more than the defining of who is "us" and who is "not us" and therefore to be excluded. That's essentially what it boils down to. To make it easier to sell - you make them inferior, sub-human, barbarians, and you cease to see them as individuals. Then it gets easier to kill them. Racism/tribalism/nationalism/ethnocentrism/religion/ideology.....

 

[JQPublic1]

I find most comparisons of modern day political figures to Hitler to be loathsome. Hitler was a unique evil, who arose under a unique set of circumstances in a way that I hope will never be repeated.

My fear is ... however, that it could be. We're hearing the same rhetoric, the same scapegoating (just different groups), the rise of rightwing populism across the world and with it a concurrent rise in anti-immigrant sentiment and ethnic nationalism. Do I think that could lead to the organized cold blooded genocide of groups such as Hitler's Germany engineered? I don't think so. Do I think it could lead to discrimmination, violence towards, and the stripping of rights from innocent people or at least a willingness to look away? Yes, I fear it could.

Trump is the quintessential populist. He has that in common with Hitler. Trump is adept at managing the emotions of his followers. He characterizes the world in black and white - in an us vs them framework - with "them" being outsiders. He promises safety, prosperity, and a return to a non-existent "golden age" through him and only through him. He inspires a blind allegience that is willing to overlook flaws, lies, and gross inconsistencies. He has an immense but fragile ego that can't tolerate embarressment or contradiction, and is easily played. His personality and behavior share some of the same characteristics as Hitler's. As many populist/nationalistic leaders.

But that doesn't make him Hitler. His policies and governance remain to be seen - he is so contradictory and lies so often, it's impossible to predict. I've not seen sustained hatred towards any particular group. I don't see anything approaching Hitler, nor do I see it in our society. Unlike 1930's Germany, our economy is going great, our unemployment low. Populists usually seek scapegoats but they seldom become mass murderers. Hitler, like Stalin, and a handful of others are rare. Comparing Trump to them is a huge insult to the many who suffered under their regimes.

Great post. I concur with most of what you posited. But you left me hanging with that second paragraph where you seemed to agree that the present populist fad has ominous historical implications.. Yet, you don't think it could lead to something similar to the Holocaust. But the Holocaust was preceded by the similar events you think COULD happen.

For a moment, I'd like to place Hitler's soul in Trumps body (2017) and place Trump's soul in Hitler's body (1936). Would the outcomes be the same. Would history be changed? Somehow , in this scenario, they both retain all their respective child hood experiences and the same social conditioning.

Somehow, given that both would sensitive to the bloodlust and ager of their populist constituents, I can only conclude the worst!

 

[Coyote]

I find most comparisons of modern day political figures to Hitler to be loathsome. Hitler was a unique evil, who arose under a unique set of circumstances in a way that I hope will never be repeated.

My fear is ... however, that it could be. We're hearing the same rhetoric, the same scapegoating (just different groups), the rise of rightwing populism across the world and with it a concurrent rise in anti-immigrant sentiment and ethnic nationalism. Do I think that could lead to the organized cold blooded genocide of groups such as Hitler's Germany engineered? I don't think so. Do I think it could lead to discrimmination, violence towards, and the stripping of rights from innocent people or at least a willingness to look away? Yes, I fear it could.

Trump is the quintessential populist. He has that in common with Hitler. Trump is adept at managing the emotions of his followers. He characterizes the world in black and white - in an us vs them framework - with "them" being outsiders. He promises safety, prosperity, and a return to a non-existent "golden age" through him and only through him. He inspires a blind allegience that is willing to overlook flaws, lies, and gross inconsistencies. He has an immense but fragile ego that can't tolerate embarressment or contradiction, and is easily played. His personality and behavior share some of the same characteristics as Hitler's. As many populist/nationalistic leaders.

But that doesn't make him Hitler. His policies and governance remain to be seen - he is so contradictory and lies so often, it's impossible to predict. I've not seen sustained hatred towards any particular group. I don't see anything approaching Hitler, nor do I see it in our society. Unlike 1930's Germany, our economy is going great, our unemployment low. Populists usually seek scapegoats but they seldom become mass murderers. Hitler, like Stalin, and a handful of others are rare. Comparing Trump to them is a huge insult to the many who suffered under their regimes.

Great post. I concur with most of what you posited. But you left me hanging with that second paragraph where you seemed to agree that the present populist fad has ominous historical implications.. Yet, you don't think it could lead to something similar to the Holocaust. But the Holocaust was preceded by the similar events you think COULD happen.

For a moment, I'd like to place Hitler's soul in Trumps body (2017) and place Trump's soul in Hitler's body (1936). Would the outcomes be the same. Would history be changed? Somehow , in this scenario, they both retain all their respective child hood experiences and the same social conditioning.

Somehow, given that both would sensitive to the bloodlust and ager of their populist constituents, I can only conclude the worst!

We are a different world, now, then we were in the 30's. And we have the lesson of the Holocaust to learn from. What I hope is we don't forget it - in it's larger implications (ie...anyone could be scapegoated). It's far more difficult to keep secrets - to keep the world from knowing when something horrible is going on. Although...I suppose there is a caveat. With the advent of "fake news" and "alternative facts"....maybe it can be more difficult to spread truth.

As long as we have free speech and a free media we can combat things in a way that society in the 1930's cant.

I don't see Trump as being like Hitler. What I do see though...is the possibility of an isolationist response to an atrocity in another part of the world. He wouldn't be like Hitler in killing the targeted group, but he would close our doors to those fleeing if they were the wrong group. In otherwords...he would be us...in the 1930's, turning away the St. Louis.

 

[Dr Grump]

What I want from you is to prove to me any concrete similarities between Trump and Hitler. I can scarcely believe this man would be anything close to Hitler, who murdered 6 million people.

So, as the question in the title asks, is Trump comparable to Hitler?

Rules:

1) No referring to Trump as anything except by his given name, which can be President Donald Trump, Trump, Donald Trump, Donald John Trump, Donald J. Trump, DJT, DT or Donald.
2) No insults.
3) All comparisons must be backed up with real, verifiable historic evidence in comparison with current policy actions or behavior being undertaken by the current administration.

He's already repressing certain parts of the press. Hitler did that, although to a lot larger degree. In the end.

 

[JQPublic1]

He didn't call anyone a racist, he said that Trump uses divisive language along racial lines that whites eat up.

Uhm, yeah, we call that an insinuation of racism where I come from.

Hate to break it to you, but there are, indeed, racists in the Trump-Believer cult.

Now this is violating the rules of the thread.

Do you think racism exists?

And so is this.

(Yes, racism exists, but it doesn't consist solely of angry conservative white male Trump voters)

It might be noteworthy to observe that Black slaves in America were never perceived as racists nor were the Jews of Nazi Germany. I have yet to see a case where racism originated within any other demographic than wherever German's had influence. A German developed the concept of race and , of course, he placed his own at the pinnacle of racial hierarchy.
Thus in all of mans preceding history, the word "race" was unknown and the concept meaningless. Europeans have embraced it and taken it with them every where they go.

Racism in one form or another existed anywhere human beings existed. Racism, in it's broader definition is nothing more than the defining of who is "us" and who is "not us" and therefore to be excluded. That's essentially what it boils down to. To make it easier to sell - you make them inferior, sub-human, barbarians, and you cease to see them as individuals. Then it gets easier to kill them. Racism/tribalism/nationalism/ethnocentrism/religion/ideology.....

I disagree. tribalism is the term I would use to define the us vs them competition for hunting grounds and other resources. Skin color/ phenotype was no bar to one man's humanity while uplifting that of another. The middle east seems to be the place where isolated groups of Homo Sapiens Sapiens merged during and after the last Ice Age to create cosmopolitan civilizations which were heavily influenced by the Blacks of KMT. Race was no factor there.

 

[esthermoon]

In my opinion Donald Trump is not comparable to Adolf Hitler at all.
As far as I know Adolf Hitler did freeze the Weimar Constitution, which was an illegal act, he was the chief of party that was ultra-nationalist and had racial suprematism as basic principle.
President Trump didn't do anything like that
I've read on the web that during the campaing he used some Mussolini quotes but that's another matter

 

[Coyote]

Uhm, yeah, we call that an insinuation of racism where I come from.

Hate to break it to you, but there are, indeed, racists in the Trump-Believer cult.

Now this is violating the rules of the thread.

Do you think racism exists?

And so is this.

(Yes, racism exists, but it doesn't consist solely of angry conservative white male Trump voters)

It might be noteworthy to observe that Black slaves in America were never perceived as racists nor were the Jews of Nazi Germany. I have yet to see a case where racism originated within any other demographic than wherever German's had influence. A German developed the concept of race and , of course, he placed his own at the pinnacle of racial hierarchy.
Thus in all of mans preceding history, the word "race" was unknown and the concept meaningless. Europeans have embraced it and taken it with them every where they go.

Racism in one form or another existed anywhere human beings existed. Racism, in it's broader definition is nothing more than the defining of who is "us" and who is "not us" and therefore to be excluded. That's essentially what it boils down to. To make it easier to sell - you make them inferior, sub-human, barbarians, and you cease to see them as individuals. Then it gets easier to kill them. Racism/tribalism/nationalism/ethnocentrism/religion/ideology.....

I disagree. tribalism is the term I would use to define the us vs them competition for hunting grounds and other resources. Skin color/ phenotype was no bar to one man's humanity while uplifting that of another. The middle east seems to be the place where isolated groups of Homo Sapiens Sapiens merged during and after the last Ice Age to create cosmopolitan civilizations which were heavily influenced by the Blacks of KMT. Race was no factor there.

What I see as tribalism is allegence to a group, with other groups or tribes being the outsiders - so, it's just another version of the us vs. them game. Tribalism is what led to the genocide in Rwanda.

Racism is a form of "otherism" and I think most if not all human groups have it.