Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[BluePhantom]

No I think you misunderstand. The stage three to stage four transition is by far the most critical and the most confusing. Many people of faith choose atheism during this transition because they cannot see a way to reconcile their new understanding with what they have been taught and so they just say "**** it all" and throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's not what Fowler is talking about. Fowler is saying that during the stage four transition one shifts their authority. In stages 1-3 authority came externally...from the Bible or a priest or pastor or study group...whatever. In those stages the individual takes what they are told and they go with them. This is very Koshergrl- ish and that's why she is such a pain in the ass.

In stages 4-6 one relies upon their own internal authority. For example, in stage 3 the pastor's teaching holds more weight than personal opinions or feelings or even true inner beliefs.What the teacher says goes and that's that. In stage 4 and beyond it is reversed. The pastor's teaching may hold some value, but you don't accept it blindly. You take it as advice and not law. The focus shifts from the relationship with God that you have been told to have to the relationship with God you really need to have because it is the new relationship that is just between you and God. This is the relationship TrinityPower, Jake Starkey, Meriwether, and myself have.

That picture just gives me nightmares

Please elaborate. I am not sure what you are referring to

Your signature photo , the HillaBorg, i guess you would call it

Oh! Well you know i think it leaves very little doubt as to who I will be voting for.

Unless your into that wierd kinky stuff, but Im thinking most likely not

Well I am but not with her.

 

[Bonzi]

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

One doesn't have to guess Gods motives in anything if they ask Him

Why do children get cancer? Seems to me more like there probably is no God that cares.

If I ever meet God I am going to ask two questions. Which God are you? There have been many gods who is human history. Which one was right? The second question I would ask God why did you go to such great lengths to hide from us?

All "bad things" on Earth came to be from the original sin. It was not his plan that any should suffer or have to die, but, Adam and Eve made a choice, and now we have all these terrible things on Earth and in life.

When you meet God, you will know he is the one true God, the 3 in 1 (God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). He is not hiding. We are just not LOOKING.

 

[aris2chat]

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

But he is not perfect in all ways. For example if I were God and the airplane on 9/11 was flying into the building? I would have stopped it. So in that way I'm better than God .
If I were God there would be no birth defects cancer or Alzheimers disease.

Your god isn't even close to being perfect.

Didn't he f*** up with the devil?

And how did Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born yet

Wow....there's a lot of stuff in there that is really a misunderstanding of Christianity. No one knows or should assume God's motives. The question of why God allows suffering and tragedy is something that has been pondered for thousands of years and no one has an answer. If we apply a little Taosim we find that what appears to be good can be very bad and what appears to be bad can turn out to be very good. There is the ancient example of the horse that ran away. That's sucked. But the horse came back with a mate of excellent stock. That's great. So the new horse threw the owner and crippled him. That sucks. But then the nation went to war and all the able bodied men went to fight and were killed, but the horse owner didn't go to fight because he was crippled. So he lived. That's great. And it goes on and on...but the point is that one never knows how things will turn out and what seems like a blessing today can turn out to be a nightmare and vice versa.

The devil was not part of the original Jewish belief system. The devil was created centuries later as a means to explain suffering and then hell was invented a few centuries after that. Hell and the devil are man made creations that attempt to explain why God allows suffering. Personally, I don't believe in either of them. I think everyone goes to heaven because there's nowhere else to go. So for me...just for me....God allows suffering because there is no real harm that can ever be done to the spirit. Harm can be done to us physically and emotionally, but when we die our spirits go back to God so in the grand scheme of things I think God views it in such a way that there really hasn't been any harm done. It sucks for us in our mortal existence and according to our physical understanding of the universe, but God views it differently because He is thinking on levels that we could not possibly comprehend. Now I don't know if that is the reason, but that's what makes sense to me.

As far as Jesus dying for your sins, boy that's a really long story. I will attempt brevity. Prior to Jesus, in order to get rid of your sins you had to go to the Temple, offer a sacrifice (usually a lamb or other small animal) and the priests would perform rites that cleansed you of your sins. Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind. That's why you will sometimes hear Him referred to as the "lamb of God". Jesus became the sacrificial lamb on behalf of the sins of humanity for all times. Thus, there is no need to offer any further sacrifices or go the the priests to 'get to God'. The sacrifice has already been made and now we can go to God directly without having to go through the priests and performing rites etc. So through the sacrifice of Jesus, sin has been cleansed and man gains direct access to God. That's the short version.

One doesn't have to guess Gods motives in anything if they ask Him

Why do children get cancer? Seems to me more like there probably is no God that cares.

If I ever meet God I am going to ask two questions. Which God are you? There have been many gods who is human history. Which one was right? The second question I would ask God why did you go to such great lengths to hide from us?

All "bad things" on Earth came to be from the original sin. It was not his plan that any should suffer or have to die, but, Adam and Eve made a choice, and now we have all these terrible things on Earth and in life.

When you meet God, you will know he is the one true God, the 3 in 1 (God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). He is not hiding. We are just not LOOKING.

If Jesus was supposed to have sacrificed himself to remove original sin, how are all the 'bad things' that come from OS still occurring?

If God is 3 in one, where is his wife in all this?

A creator is more likely to be female if of any sex.

Two trees, one of knowledge and the other of life. Both gifts that were waiting to be taken.

 

[Bonzi]

If Jesus was supposed to have sacrificed himself to remove original sin, how are all the 'bad things' that come from OS still occurring?

If God is 3 in one, where is his wife in all this?

A creator is more likely to be female if of any sex.

Two trees, one of knowledge and the other of life. Both gifts that were waiting to be taken.

He died to take on our sins, but, we must acknowledge and believe that. This didn't make the world perfect, only allowed God to see us through Jesus. The New Heaven and New Earth come later.

God is self existent. He has always been and always will be. No wife.

Why do you feel a creator is more likely to be female? You can't apply rules of human's to the Creator. We ARE in his likeness, but in what ways, we don't know.

I won't pretend to fully understand the mind of God. I just know he's God and is worth of our praise and worship.

 

[Bonzi]

But the voice of truth tells me a different story
The voice of truth says, "Do not be afraid!"
The voice of truth says, "This is for My glory"
Out of all the voices calling out to me
I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth

 

[aris2chat]

If Jesus was supposed to have sacrificed himself to remove original sin, how are all the 'bad things' that come from OS still occurring?

If God is 3 in one, where is his wife in all this?

A creator is more likely to be female if of any sex.

Two trees, one of knowledge and the other of life. Both gifts that were waiting to be taken.

He died to take on our sins, but, we must acknowledge and believe that. This didn't make the world perfect, only allowed God to see us through Jesus. The New Heaven and New Earth come later.

God is self existent. He has always been and always will be. No wife.

Why do you feel a creator is more likely to be female? You can't apply rules of human's to the Creator. We ARE in his likeness, but in what ways, we don't know.

I won't pretend to fully understand the mind of God. I just know he's God and is worth of our praise and worship.

The Evolution of God - by Robert Wright

 

[Bonzi]

If Jesus was supposed to have sacrificed himself to remove original sin, how are all the 'bad things' that come from OS still occurring?

If God is 3 in one, where is his wife in all this?

A creator is more likely to be female if of any sex.

Two trees, one of knowledge and the other of life. Both gifts that were waiting to be taken.

He died to take on our sins, but, we must acknowledge and believe that. This didn't make the world perfect, only allowed God to see us through Jesus. The New Heaven and New Earth come later.

God is self existent. He has always been and always will be. No wife.

Why do you feel a creator is more likely to be female? You can't apply rules of human's to the Creator. We ARE in his likeness, but in what ways, we don't know.

I won't pretend to fully understand the mind of God. I just know he's God and is worth of our praise and worship.

The Evolution of God - by Robert Wright

Divine Devolution Christianity Today

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"The court’s ruling makes clear that clergy and religious organizations are not obliged to perform same-sex marriages, but some groups have expressed concerns about their tax-exempt status."

Their ‘concerns’ are completely unfounded, devoid of merit, and the product of ignorance of the law – likely willful ignorance for partisan reasons.

Obergefell addressed only the relationship between same-sex couples and their states of residence with regard to accessing marriage contract law, having nothing whatsoever to do with religious marriage rituals.

The Fourteenth Amendment jurisprudence reaffirmed in Obergefell applied solely to government, not private persons or organizations such as churches, where no church can be ‘forced’ to afford a same-sex couple religious marriage rituals, including being threatened with losing their tax exempt status.

 

[sealybobo]

Which would be evidence science logic proof

A thought cannot be proven to exist but we have thoughts all of the time. A feeling cannot be proven to exist but we have feelings all the time.

The bulk of our lives are experienced through thoughts and feelings . The majority of your life cannot be proven. You really limit your understanding of humanity when you focus on science, proof, logic and evidence. Humanity is 99+ % unproven thoughts and feelings.

Poor fellow. You have intentionally chosen to understand very little about life.

What makes you believe you're as special as you believe you are. Don't refer to what Paul John George and Ringo said in the bible. Let's say you weren't brainwashed with the Bible or Quran since birth. Tell me other than you happen to be at the top of the food chain on this one particular planet why do you think you are so special that you go to heaven or that a creator cares about you.

Please throw away all the nonsense our elders told us. Give me your factual logical reason why not only is there a creator but that he cares about you anymore than a frog elephant or dog.

Is it a feeling you have? That's called wishful thinking

If I understand James Fowler's theory then one has to become an atheist before advancing to the higher levels of their faith.

I haven't read "Stages of Faith" yet. It sounds like Fowler believes that the most effective and fulfilled Christians are in fact atheist or at least non-believers masquerading as Christians.

When I read the book I will share more. I'll invite Blue Phantom and Sealybobo to the discussion. It would probably be an interesting conversation at least for ten minutes or so.

No I think you misunderstand. The stage three to stage four transition is by far the most critical and the most confusing. Many people of faith choose atheism during this transition because they cannot see a way to reconcile their new understanding with what they have been taught and so they just say "**** it all" and throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's not what Fowler is talking about. Fowler is saying that during the stage four transition one shifts their authority. In stages 1-3 authority came externally...from the Bible or a priest or pastor or study group...whatever. In those stages the individual takes what they are told and they go with them. This is very Koshergrl- ish and that's why she is such a pain in the ass.

In stages 4-6 one relies upon their own internal authority. For example, in stage 3 the pastor's teaching holds more weight than personal opinions or feelings or even true inner beliefs.What the teacher says goes and that's that. In stage 4 and beyond it is reversed. The pastor's teaching may hold some value, but you don't accept it blindly. You take it as advice and not law. The focus shifts from the relationship with God that you have been told to have to the relationship with God you really need to have because it is the new relationship that is just between you and God. This is the relationship TrinityPower, Jake Starkey, Meriwether, and myself have.

I passed that stage years ago. Long time ago I discovered all organized religions were made up so I had my own personal relationship with God. Then I realized all the organized relationships are made up so is God probably. So whatever stage you're on I'm one stage ahead of you

 

[Carla_Danger]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

No offense, but any asshole can do that.

 

[koshergrl]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

I dont think so, if you read the New testament in full context you can see Jesus gives Outward religious acts much less regard than what is in a person's heart, and that is the real transformation that is supposed to take place. Sacraments and such I think are ways for the christian community to come together as a group, perhaps?

But when it comes to the definition of a Christian , it would be someone who believes that in some way, Christ is the key of bridging this physical world to a better understanding of God. As this is supposed to be more of an internal thing, I realy think this is for each person to figure out . hhmmm between them and god.
Simply performing a sacrament or reciting some verses without anything else would hardly be a definition.

However Christ also was adamant about rejecting sin and taking a stand, even to death, before embracing sin or recanting your faith. Sacraments in and of themselves don't bring salvation. Their power lies in their public nature. Marriage to Christians is a public declaration of a pact before God, and to participate in a ceremony that makes a mockery of it is an affront to God and one of the things we feel most strong about. Christians are supposed to stand apart. They are expected by God to abstain from certain worldly traditions. Even if it brings persecution and death. It's one thing to approach potential converts on their own turf..it's another to participate in sacrilege yourself just to fit in.

 

[BluePhantom]

If God is 3 in one, where is his wife in all this?

A creator is more likely to be female if of any sex.

Two trees, one of knowledge and the other of life. Both gifts that were waiting to be taken.

The Holy Spirit was considered to be the feminine in antiquity. In most ancient texts the pronoun used for the Holy Spirit is actually "she" and one school of thought in some sects of the early church was that Jesus could not have been conceived by the Holy Spirit because it is impossible for two females to create a child. Through the Middle Ages, the idea of the Holy Spirit being feminine was discouraged and then declared heretical. Most Christians today would not even be aware that ancient Jews and Christians identified with the Holy Spirit as being "the woman".

 

[BluePhantom]

Which would be evidence science logic proof

A thought cannot be proven to exist but we have thoughts all of the time. A feeling cannot be proven to exist but we have feelings all the time.

The bulk of our lives are experienced through thoughts and feelings . The majority of your life cannot be proven. You really limit your understanding of humanity when you focus on science, proof, logic and evidence. Humanity is 99+ % unproven thoughts and feelings.

Poor fellow. You have intentionally chosen to understand very little about life.

What makes you believe you're as special as you believe you are. Don't refer to what Paul John George and Ringo said in the bible. Let's say you weren't brainwashed with the Bible or Quran since birth. Tell me other than you happen to be at the top of the food chain on this one particular planet why do you think you are so special that you go to heaven or that a creator cares about you.

Please throw away all the nonsense our elders told us. Give me your factual logical reason why not only is there a creator but that he cares about you anymore than a frog elephant or dog.

Is it a feeling you have? That's called wishful thinking

If I understand James Fowler's theory then one has to become an atheist before advancing to the higher levels of their faith.

I haven't read "Stages of Faith" yet. It sounds like Fowler believes that the most effective and fulfilled Christians are in fact atheist or at least non-believers masquerading as Christians.

When I read the book I will share more. I'll invite Blue Phantom and Sealybobo to the discussion. It would probably be an interesting conversation at least for ten minutes or so.

No I think you misunderstand. The stage three to stage four transition is by far the most critical and the most confusing. Many people of faith choose atheism during this transition because they cannot see a way to reconcile their new understanding with what they have been taught and so they just say "**** it all" and throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's not what Fowler is talking about. Fowler is saying that during the stage four transition one shifts their authority. In stages 1-3 authority came externally...from the Bible or a priest or pastor or study group...whatever. In those stages the individual takes what they are told and they go with them. This is very Koshergrl- ish and that's why she is such a pain in the ass.

In stages 4-6 one relies upon their own internal authority. For example, in stage 3 the pastor's teaching holds more weight than personal opinions or feelings or even true inner beliefs.What the teacher says goes and that's that. In stage 4 and beyond it is reversed. The pastor's teaching may hold some value, but you don't accept it blindly. You take it as advice and not law. The focus shifts from the relationship with God that you have been told to have to the relationship with God you really need to have because it is the new relationship that is just between you and God. This is the relationship TrinityPower, Jake Starkey, Meriwether, and myself have.

I passed that stage years ago. Long time ago I discovered all organized religions were made up so I had my own personal relationship with God. Then I realized all the organized relationships are made up so is God probably. So whatever stage you're on I'm one stage ahead of you

I didn't know we were in a race. But actually you are not a stage ahead of me. These are the stages of faith. You have abandoned your faith, thus you have removed yourself from the stages completely.

 

[koshergrl]

Remember Christ could have saved himself, just by going along. He was afforded multiple opportunities to assimilate...his example shows us that lip service to corrupt or secular power for the safe of safety and comfort is not acceptable.

 

[hortysir]

I'm not a boy and how was that crude?

ravi ----I am a mother-----to me all males are "boys" It is not nice to accuse Christians of ----EASILY getting out of sin by simply "confessing" it is not true. Christians do not take sin lightly

Fundies do.

No, they do not. Not if they believe the Bible and are seeking to enter heaven one day. There will be no sinning Christians in heaven. If you sin like the world, you'll be judged like the world. One prayer at an altar does not make the difference. You either live the life or you don't.

ALL of my sins have been paid for
period
Not just the ones before baptism and none of them after.
ALL have been paid for.

To say otherwise is to say His Blood isn't sufficient

No. It means that you have decided that "overcoming" is not something you are interested in doing. To him who overcomes.............. Remember that scripture in Revelation? You should.

It is written:

To him who overcometh will I give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

And if you do not overcome? You won't enter into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus made it very clear that he that endureth until the end the same shall be saved. (See Matthew Chapter 24)

The wedding has not taken place yet - Jesus isn't marrying a harlot. He is coming back for a Bride without spot or wrinkle. If that doesn't describe you and what you are striving for in your walk with Christ then watch the John Mulinde video and see what the LORD has to say to you about it.

Don't kill the messenger. I am just giving you the truth. I hope you will watch the video - it will make the message that much clearer to you.

Which one?

***without spot or wrinkle. If that doesn't describe you and what you are striving for in your walk with Christ***

Because I am always striving for that.

I just find it hard to believe that all of the sheep belonging to the Good Shepherd must be a perfect snow white

 

[hortysir]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

No offense, but any asshole can do that.

And that's a good thing.
Why wouldn't He want more in His house?
He wouldn't make it more difficult to save us. That's why we're not saved through our works, only by His Grace

 

[Carla_Danger]

Do you see the word "church" in here:

"Full Definition of SACRAMENT
1
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
b : a religious rite or observance comparable to a Christian sacrament "

?

Nope. You don't. Now go sit down, you piece of shit. You need to look up words before you presume to tell people what they mean.

You people do need to die.

Sacrament Definition of sacrament by Merriam-Webster

A fair representation of Christianity is this:

Acknowledging God is perfect in all ways and in control, that Jesus died for your sins and only through him will you be acceptable to God and living you life in obedience to God and His word.

That's ALL that is needed.

No offense, but any asshole can do that.

And that's a good thing.
Why wouldn't He want more in His house?
He wouldn't make it more difficult to save us. That's why we're not saved through our works, only by His Grace

Save us from what?

 

[ChrisL]

I think it is an accurate representation of Christians on this forum. Very hateful people. Some of the MOST hateful, judgmental and unforgiving people I have ever had the misfortune to meet.

 

[hortysir]

I think it is an accurate representation of Christians on this forum. Very hateful people. Some of the MOST hateful, judgmental and unforgiving people I have ever had the misfortune to meet.

I had a wonderful answer to Carla's question all typed out in Word and was ready to paste it when I saw this.
Why even bother?

Prayers for both of y'all......and everyone

*unsub*

 

[presonorek]

Blue Phantom will never find my comments on James Fowler.

I found them...sheesh.

sealybobo and I were going back and forth for quite a while. I was afraid that my response to you would be buried and forgotten.