is there an eruption of evil in the US ?? is evil real ??

[RandallFlagg]

Let me put it this way; we, humans, don't like to think of ourselves as being bad or even doing things that cause discomfort to others. If there is "evil" out there that makes us do things that we wouldn't normally do then it isn't our fault. The "evil" made me do it. I don't have to take responsibility for the damage I do because it was done through me , not I doing it. I can be forgiven for temporarily allowing the evil to overcome me. The obvious thing that arises from that view is that we can't be responsible for the good we do either. It comes from the "external good" working through us and not I doing it.

The problem with the idea of good and evil is that it takes away from what we are. We are thinking beings that choose to behave as we do. We are responsible for our actions, whether they are pleasing or not. only when we accept that will we hold ourselves and others responsible for the actions that we and others perform. Only then can we take pride in being better than we were or growing in wisdom. Of course that means that we have to be culpable when we do something wrong. We have to make the attempt to set it right and then we have to forgive ourselves for the wrong-doing and admit that we are only human.
Too many people would rather "blame it on the devil" than accept that mankind is capable of both the ugliest of violence and the beauty of love.
Evil is only in the mind of man. Good is only in the mind of man. We are human and that means we make mistakes. We sometimes use the worst tools at our disposal and it causes tremendous pain and suffering. Sometimes madness takes our ability to reason away and we act like animals. When our actions are beyond the scope of what we would like to be (in a good or bad way) we would rather give the credit or blame to something else. It removes the pressure to conform to an unrealistic expectation.
We have laws to punish those who do things that injure others. We do that so that we can say that we live by the law and those that don't can be removed from society. We don't have laws that can punish us for not being better than the rest of society but we do reward that kind of action in individuals or groups. So the "bad" people get punished and the "good" people get rewarded and we feel good about ourselves.
There are not many people in our prisons that admit to doing anything wrong - but they have been convicted of crimes against other people. How can they believe they did nothing wrong?

Please understand that I am not essentially disagreeing with your post. I am not. However, I tend to disagree in this instance: Adolph Hitler was pure unadulterated evil. The German people who blindly followed, and ignored those "whispers" of what was going on at Belsen, Aushwitz, Treblinka and the like CHOSE to participate in evil; although to them, it was dressed as "nationalism" or "patriotism" or excused it by blaming the fog of war.

Adolph Hitler knew from the beginning that his "Master Plan" would involve a "final solution" and embraced it. That, by definition, is evil. The countless millions that died, both civilian and soldier, believed that the Fuher had the best interest of the German people in mind - up to the point where Germany lay in ruins and their country was demolished.

The same thing with the killing fields of Cambodia. There was no mercy, no quarter given. Millions of innocent men, women and children were massacred with malice in an attempt to rid the regime of "undesirables".

While I tend to agree that "evil", in the generic sense, is more a state of mind that an actual "force of the cosmos" - some "evil" goes far beyond that of mere mortal men.

Or, as Edmund Burke once stated: "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"

 

[tipofthespear]

i think evil is real .I think it is a force that we should study scientifically . humans are the only species that will kill for the sake of killing alone .

You must not be familiar with the common house cat.........they kill simply for the pleasure of killing.....not for self defense, hunger, or protection of territory......they kill because it entertains them to do so......

 

[Granny]

i think evil is real .I think it is a force that we should study scientifically . humans are the only species that will kill for the sake of killing alone .

Really? There are cases of weasels, wolves , sharks and great apes killing and leaving the dead corpses to rot. Usually humans have some sort of reason behind killing - even if it makes no sense to some - it must to the killer.

Animals act out of instinct. They don't have the capability to determine right from wrong. People have a choice. They can choose whether to do good or evil. Even people coming out of the worst of situations can CHOOSE not to continue that cycle. I don't think it's something that can be scientifically studied. It has nothing to do with ideology or anything else that can be scientifically slotted. People make choices - some good and some bad - and those choices have consequences for good or for bad on themselves and on others.

Comparing animal instinct to human choice is just not a valid argument.

 

[PaulS1950]

Oh! and we don't have instincts? Like facing death to save a complete stranger? How about sexual instincts - the need to procreate? We evolved from hunter-gatherers who lived by their instincts. I know, we are educated and domesticated by 100000 years of established societal rules but we are not so evolved that we have lost our instinct to survive. We are driven to fight to live, and fight for our children by instincts that are still very strong. The only reason that human have "right" and "wrong" is because we are thinkers with a memory of time. When something bad happens to us we think of it as "evil" but not when an animal does it - only when another human does it. To the Japanese people during WWII we were the evil - just as they were to us. They heard horendous stories about GIs raping women and killing babies to eat them. They knew that we were "evil incarnate". We heard stories about the "Japs" and even had posters that made them out to be "evil". So much so that we incarcerated Americans who were of Japanese descent. We did that in spite of the laws that said we couldn't. Were we "evil" to do that? Didn't we act out of "instinct"?
Humans think they are above the animals - "above nature" - but it is in our nature to attempt to be more than we are - we just shouldn't believe that we are. We are animals, intelligent and thinking, and trying to rise above our nature but we are still animals - even by our own deffinition. If someone comes up behind you and slaps you up side the head do you think? Do you react? Don't think so highly of yourself - you are still an animal at the base of it all.

 

[tipofthespear]

Oh! and we don't have instincts? Like facing death to save a complete stranger? How about sexual instincts - the need to procreate? We evolved from hunter-gatherers who lived by their instincts. I know, we are educated and domesticated by 100000 years of established societal rules but we are not so evolved that we have lost our instinct to survive. We are driven to fight to live, and fight for our children by instincts that are still very strong. The only reason that human have "right" and "wrong" is because we are thinkers with a memory of time. When something bad happens to us we think of it as "evil" but not when an animal does it - only when another human does it. To the Japanese people during WWII we were the evil - just as they were to us. They heard horendous stories about GIs raping women and killing babies to eat them. They knew that we were "evil incarnate". We heard stories about the "Japs" and even had posters that made them out to be "evil". So much so that we incarcerated Americans who were of Japanese descent. We did that in spite of the laws that said we couldn't. Were we "evil" to do that? Didn't we act out of "instinct"?
Humans think they are above the animals - "above nature" - but it is in our nature to attempt to be more than we are - we just shouldn't believe that we are. We are animals, intelligent and thinking, and trying to rise above our nature but we are still animals - even by our own deffinition. If someone comes up behind you and slaps you up side the head do you think? Do you react? Don't think so highly of yourself - you are still an animal at the base of it all.

Yes, and No...........yes we have characteristics that can be identified in the Animal Kingdom, and oft times react much like them, and we certainly retain a certain amount of our natural instincts, however, we are far above the Animal Kingdom in a far more important area in that we are a "triune" creation, where animals are not......

Man consists of three specific parts:
1) body
2) soul
3) spirit

If we understand this, then we not only see that we are created above the animals, but set apart from them in our relationship with God........

The linked article may help some to understand this:

The Triune Human Being

 

[PaulS1950]

I don't suppose you have anything besides faith to back up your claim of being "created" above animals?
We evolved from the same ancestor as the great apes so, scientifically speaking we were not "created" and we are directly related to animals.
As far as being set apart from them in our relationship with God, I have to agree with you. We attempt to be more than the "imperfect" being that we are. So we lie to ourselves and at the same time degrade ourselves for not being able to be "godlike". The other animals are quite content to be themselves - as "created" by God.

 

[tipofthespear]

How Humans Differ from Animals
January 1, 2006
By Kenneth R. Samples

Reasons To Believe : How Humans Differ from Animals


EXCERPT FROM ARTICLE:

For many people the distinction between human beings and animals has become increasingly blurred.

Exposure to the secular, naturalistic worldview--especially in academia--can leave one wondering whether the differences are simply a matter of degree. In this view, mankind leaped to the top of the evolutionary heap by chance events.
However, philosophers have identified many ways in which human beings differ dramatically from animals. Unique human qualities and traits set man apart from the animals by kind, not just degree. From a Christian worldview perspective, and specifically in light of the imago Dei (see sidebar), one would expect profound differences, including the few that follow.

1: Inherent Spirituality

Human beings have an inherent spiritual and religious nature. The vast majority of people on Earth pursue some form of spiritual or religious truth. Most human beings have deep-seated religious beliefs and engage in intricate religious ritual. Pursuit of God or the transcendental is a defining characteristic of mankind and is evidenced in such common practices as prayer and worship--so much so that some have designated humans as homo religiosus--"religious man." By contrast, formal atheism is largely inconsistent with the overall history of human nature and practice. Even professed nonbelievers (atheists, skeptics) pursue questions concerning life's ultimate meaning and purpose and are drawn to whatever they consider to be of ultimate importance and value. Philosopher Harold H. Titus has said that even agnostics and atheists "tend to replace a personal god with an impersonal one--the state, race, some process in nature, or devotion to the search for truth or some other ideal."

2: Man, of all Earth's creatures, is uniquely cognizant of his imminent death. This recognition brings him personal angst and contemplation of God and the possibility of immortality. The ancient Greek philosopher Socrates (c. 470-399 B.C.) stated, "The unexamined life is not worth living." It is left for man alone to contemplate what philosophers call "the big questions of life." Animals, on the other hand, can be very intelligent but show no sign of spirituality or concern with ultimate issues.


You can read the entire article to understand how man is "set apart" from all other creations of God........

 

[PaulS1950]

Animals, on the other hand, can be very intelligent but show no sign of spirituality or concern with ultimate issues.

Like elephants greiving the loss of a member of the herd? Or other animals whose mothers stay with a dead offspring for a time after their death?

They used to say that man was the only "maker of tools" until chimps were found to make and usetools and recently in the USA it was found that crows do the same thing. We ARE thinking animals. When we don't understand something we create mythology to explain it. We are affraid of death be cause we remember others who died and wonder if that is the end - so we have religion to make it easier to accept death but no one knows what really happens. Even though I have had a "near death experience" I can't be sure that what I experienced wasn't some kind of memory flash or accident of brain chemistry driven by the lack of oxygen.
We make things up to explain what we don't know - that is the separation of man from the rest of the animals.

(You don't have to believe everything you say)

 

[jwoodie]

The only true evil is intellectual dishonesty. Everything else is values-driven

 

[whitehall]

Try the conspiracy forum.

 

[tipofthespear]

Animals, on the other hand, can be very intelligent but show no sign of spirituality or concern with ultimate issues.

Like elephants greiving the loss of a member of the herd? Or other animals whose mothers stay with a dead offspring for a time after their death?

They used to say that man was the only "maker of tools" until chimps were found to make and usetools and recently in the USA it was found that crows do the same thing. We ARE thinking animals. When we don't understand something we create mythology to explain it. We are affraid of death be cause we remember others who died and wonder if that is the end - so we have religion to make it easier to accept death but no one knows what really happens. Even though I have had a "near death experience" I can't be sure that what I experienced wasn't some kind of memory flash or accident of brain chemistry driven by the lack of oxygen.
We make things up to explain what we don't know - that is the separation of man from the rest of the animals.

(You don't have to believe everything you say)

I have no desire to convince you of anything.....if you wish to believe you are simply an "upper level" chimp, by all means believe it.....just don't try selling it to everyone else. Evolution is a "theory," and a "flawed theory" at best, and an outright lie at worst. Neither Darwin, nor the plethora of his converts who have written on the Theory have ever been able to prove beyond doubt that Evolution is "fact." It was created as a Theory, and remains a Theory......that's all.

The difference between man and animal the article was referring to is the "triune" being of man.........body, soul, spirit.........animals are not "triune" beings, nor were they created to be. The one certain "truth" of your comment is the last sentence, and I fully agree with it, especially with regards to Evolution..............

QUOTE: "We make things up to explain what we don't know - that is the separation of man from the rest of the animals."

The obvious point of the article that you completely disregarded, and no wonder why, given that all who profess Evolution as truth do the same, is to explain the inherent desire of man to "question," to "search" for the reasons of existence, to "seek" a meaning for life. It is this special God given desire that separates/elevates man above animals.

Now, feel free to disagree, for if what mows your grass is to believe you are just an animal, hey, go for it!

 

[PaulS1950]

mam·mal
[mam-uhl]

noun
any vertebrate of the class Mammalia, having the body more or less covered with hair, nourishing the young with milk from the mammary glands, and, with the exception of the egg-laying monotremes, giving birth to live young.

By definition we are Mammals - Mammals is a wide classification of a type of animal.
That evolution occurs is a fact. The modes by which occurs is theory.
You can quote from the Bible on matters of faith but I doubt you actually believe it all as the command of God. You pick and choose what to believe just like every other Christian on the Earth.

 

[Barb]

definition, please. it really does depend on what you consider to BE evil, and every argument hence hinges upon that definition.

 

[tipofthespear]

mam·mal
[mam-uhl]

noun
any vertebrate of the class Mammalia, having the body more or less covered with hair, nourishing the young with milk from the mammary glands, and, with the exception of the egg-laying monotremes, giving birth to live young.

By definition we are Mammals - Mammals is a wide classification of a type of animal.
That evolution occurs is a fact. The modes by which occurs is theory.
You can quote from the Bible on matters of faith but I doubt you actually believe it all as the command of God. You pick and choose what to believe just like every other Christian on the Earth.

Ok, now you are reaching.......I never said we did not have "common traits" with animals, rather I stated we were "set apart/above" from animals, and I also said WE DID NOT EVOLOVE from animals........We are a "specific and separate creation" of God's that differs from the animals He created. So far I have used common sense to speak of this, and don't remember quoting "faith" based evidence to you..........may have, but do not remember doing so.......I do not pick and choose what I believe "just like every other Christian," and you have not one shred of evidence to support that charge............Now, if you are suggesting that I review all the evidence presented on a certain subject, and determine for myself which seems to be more logical, and "truth," then, yes I do! And so does every living person on Planet Earth, not just Christians............even you........

That evolution occurs is NOT a fact............with regards to the Theory of Darwin, and the Theory of one lesser species "evolving" into a completely different and higher level of species.......as is presented in Darwin's "The History of Man."

Evolution is a flawed theory, and there is not one single Scientific example of "the occurrence of evolution" in a particular species that cannot be better and more truthfully explained as "Created Adaptation." Yes, I believe God is the Creator of All...........and as He is the Creator, it is only logical that He would have given His creations the ability to "adapt" to whatever environment they find themselves exposed to. All of the Darwinists would be far better served to go through all of their "studies," "publications" and replace the word "evolution" with "Created Adaptation." Well, except for the fact that they use "evolution" as a tool to discredit the existence of God that is......

If you honestly believe EVOLUTION is scientific fact............then I have just one simple question for you:

"WHERE ARE THEY?"

Answer this question scientifically and with tangible proof, and shoot, I may just "convert" to your belief!

"WHERE ARE THEY?" Where are all the "partially evolved" creatures who have not yet reached the full level of the "higher species" they are evolving into? As you seem to believe we "evolved" from apes, then please show me where all the 1/4 man - 3/4 apes are.......or how about the 1/2 man - 1/2 apes.........or even the 3/4 man - 1/4 apes.....? Where are these "evolving" species/creatures? Is there some secret place they hide out so we can't see them until they "fully evolve" into man? Seriously?

If evolution were scientific fact, we should be up to our elbows in "PARTIALLY EVOLVED" creatures running around the earth..........so, again, WHERE ARE THEY?

Yes, I know you/Darwinists say the evolutionary process takes millions or billions of years to occur, AND THAT IS EXACTLY my point...........!!!

It's not like these partially evolved creatures could SNEAK UP ON US is it?

Where are they?

 

[tipofthespear]

definition, please. it really does depend on what you consider to BE evil, and every argument hence hinges upon that definition.

My definition of evil is quite simple........

Truth = Good

Untruth or Lie = Evil

Truth, which is good is God.................

Untruth, which is evil is anything/anyone apart from God.......

Are there differing degrees of evil? Yes...........

 

[itfitzme]

"Good" and "evil" are moral aspects assigned to actions taken by people and only exist in the minds of mankind. In nature there is no "good" or "evil". There are no "good bears" or "bad bears", no "good" sharks or "bad" sharks.
We, mankind, interpret things that affect us positively as "good", but they might affect another negatively and be perceived as "evil". Mankind can aspire to be more or less than it is and so we have words to descibe how we are affected by the deeds of other members of mankind.

When a child is beaten by a man it is evil but when a child is battered by a mountain lion it is trajic that the child was attacked but the lion is only being a lion. Not "good" or "evil".

Chimpanzees in the wild have been observed in the group behavior of beating another monkey to death.

The social structure of a group of chimpanzees is ranked. It has been observed that the top monkey, upon having a bax moment, will hit the sdcond in the rank. The second hit the third and this continued until the smallest hit an infant.

I suggest that a failure to recognize "evil" is not that it doesn't exist.

"Evil" does not exist as a binary quantity, with a process, behavior, or outcome being either all evil or all good. The perception of distinct categories is typically an artifact of our perception. Rather, "evil" is a continuous scalar quantity.

I would suggest, as a starting point, these;

1. Doing unto others as you would not have them do unto you is evil. (This is a very standard definition that has been around for more than 2000 years. You may be familiar with the correllary, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.)

2. Good increases or maintains order while evil increases dissorder. (This is a thermodynamic definition.)

 

[itfitzme]

i really think evil is a negative force that exists in the spiritual form or maybe it is a negative energy that can effect behavior .

You would benefit from studying physics. Force amd energy are specifically and well defined. There are a handfull of forces and all forces have been discovered and measured. There is gravitational force which is the result of the bending of space due to mass. There is electro-magnetic force, which is a fundamental quality of some particles. There are a couple of nuclear forces which are of little concequence to us at our size.

There are two basic forms of energy which go with the two forces of gravity and electo-magnetism.

That said, the rest of what we observe are behaviors. Behaviors are complex combinations of actions. Actions and behaviors of one object interact with other objects. The reason that they can interact is because of the existance of the electo-magnetic and gravitational forces. At our size, it is the electro-magnetic force that is predominate in transfering energy from one object to another. Because we exist in a gravitational field created by the earth, energy can be transformed from electro-magnetic energy to mechanical energy. Oh, it can also be convertee simply by the electo-magnetic force causimg a change in velocity of an object.

All of this means that anything and everything that we may classify as evil is in terms of the behavior of one object and changes in the organization of another object.

The behavior of a gunman shooting an infant in the head is clearly evil. There are two fundamental forces at play. The rest is the behavior of the gunman in causing the baby to change state from alive to dead.

It is important that we map our terms concisely to real physical qualities that can be measured and quantified.

 

[itfitzme]

i think evil is real .I think it is a force that we should study scientifically . humans are the only species that will kill for the sake of killing alone .

Really? There are cases of weasels, wolves , sharks and great apes killing and leaving the dead corpses to rot. Usually humans have some sort of reason behind killing - even if it makes no sense to some - it must to the killer.

Animals act out of instinct. They don't have the capability to determine right from wrong. People have a choice. They can choose whether to do good or evil. Even people coming out of the worst of situations can CHOOSE not to continue that cycle. I don't think it's something that can be scientifically studied. It has nothing to do with ideology or anything else that can be scientifically slotted. People make choices - some good and some bad - and those choices have consequences for good or for bad on themselves and on others.

Comparing animal instinct to human choice is just not a valid argument.

You may be interested inthe Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prisoner Experiment. They are both scientific experiments that demonstrate "evil", or "really bad form".

 

[itfitzme]

i think evil is real .I think it is a force that we should study scientifically . humans are the only species that will kill for the sake of killing alone .

Really? There are cases of weasels, wolves , sharks and great apes killing and leaving the dead corpses to rot. Usually humans have some sort of reason behind killing - even if it makes no sense to some - it must to the killer.

Animals act out of instinct. They don't have the capability to determine right from wrong. People have a choice. They can choose whether to do good or evil. Even people coming out of the worst of situations can CHOOSE not to continue that cycle. I don't think it's something that can be scientifically studied. It has nothing to do with ideology or anything else that can be scientifically slotted. People make choices - some good and some bad - and those choices have consequences for good or for bad on themselves and on others.

Comparing animal instinct to human choice is just not a valid argument.

"Choice" and "free will" are not objective qualities. They are subjective constructs. It arises from the structure of our brain. Consiousness is the result of having a distinct cerebrial cortex that feeds back to our visual and auditory systems. Our cerebrial cortex, the major part of our brain obove our eyes and behind our forehead, has a more complex level of control over our mamillary brain. When we act consciously, we have a subjective sense of "choice". And, we expect others to act in a similar manner, using their full capacity.

Still, objectively and scientifically, our full capacity for conscious thought is still affected by our enviromnent in a causal manner of learning and behavior.

 

[itfitzme]

How Humans Differ from Animals
January 1, 2006
By Kenneth R. Samples

Reasons To Believe : How Humans Differ from Animals


EXCERPT FROM ARTICLE:

For many people the distinction between human beings and animals has become increasingly blurred.

Exposure to the secular, naturalistic worldview--especially in academia--can leave one wondering whether the differences are simply a matter of degree. In this view, mankind leaped to the top of the evolutionary heap by chance events.
However, philosophers have identified many ways in which human beings differ dramatically from animals. Unique human qualities and traits set man apart from the animals by kind, not just degree. From a Christian worldview perspective, and specifically in light of the imago Dei (see sidebar), one would expect profound differences, including the few that follow.

1: Inherent Spirituality

Human beings have an inherent spiritual and religious nature. The vast majority of people on Earth pursue some form of spiritual or religious truth. Most human beings have deep-seated religious beliefs and engage in intricate religious ritual. Pursuit of God or the transcendental is a defining characteristic of mankind and is evidenced in such common practices as prayer and worship--so much so that some have designated humans as homo religiosus--"religious man." By contrast, formal atheism is largely inconsistent with the overall history of human nature and practice. Even professed nonbelievers (atheists, skeptics) pursue questions concerning life's ultimate meaning and purpose and are drawn to whatever they consider to be of ultimate importance and value. Philosopher Harold H. Titus has said that even agnostics and atheists "tend to replace a personal god with an impersonal one--the state, race, some process in nature, or devotion to the search for truth or some other ideal."

2: Man, of all Earth's creatures, is uniquely cognizant of his imminent death. This recognition brings him personal angst and contemplation of God and the possibility of immortality. The ancient Greek philosopher Socrates (c. 470-399 B.C.) stated, "The unexamined life is not worth living." It is left for man alone to contemplate what philosophers call "the big questions of life." Animals, on the other hand, can be very intelligent but show no sign of spirituality or concern with ultimate issues.


You can read the entire article to understand how man is "set apart" from all other creations of God........

You are confusing your inability to objectively understand the world with the world's availability to be understood. To put it another way, you are assuming that because you don't understand things then they cannot be understood an therefore, other's cannot.

Also, you are confusing the behavior of attaching a word to an pattern in your mind with the state of having knowledge of the objective world.

The term "God" is as meaningful as the terms "things" and "stuff".

You can do better.