Zone1 Feasibility of US-Canada Unification?

[Missourian]

Stop being silly. NATO is attacking no one.

You obviously responded to the wrong post again, dumbass.

Let me help you out...

Canada would fight and invoke NATO TO HELP.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

NATO will attack no one, Missourian. Quit being goofy, but you have been doing that here for almost 20 years.

 

[0311]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

Slim, Nil and NONE. Canadians have been clear, they want no of the U.S.

 

[jwoodie]

Stop being silly. NATO is attacking no one.

Why do you persist in duplicity? Are you compensating for something?

 

[Dragonlady]

NATO can't even handle Russia without us. And you think they they have a snowballs chance in hell of handling us?

What other nonsense do you believe?

Ah, the arrogance and stupidity of MAGA CULT. You couldn't even beat the Taliban or the North Vietnamese. You can't seem to win ANY war without NATO.

It took 4 years for you to defeat Germany in WWII, with the help of ALL of NATO, so please, bitch, grow the fuck up and stop voting for morons like Trump.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that you can get your army to attack Canada, which would be illegal.

 

[Dragonlady]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

1. Our economy is VERY DIFFERENT from yours. Our tax dollars go to our poorest citizens, not the richest, who really don't get a lot of tax breaks. Our health care is paid for by our taxes, and we pay little to nothing out of pocket.

2. We're not interest in your military. Not in the slightest. What a fucking waste of money it has been.

3. I seriously doubt it. You don't give language rights to minorities. What about the French. Your entire NATION is too far to the right to ever be palatable to Canadians. We wouldn't vote for guns, or against abortion - which is fully legal in Canada.

Churches are NOT ALLOWED to participate in politics in Canada. If we had churches telling people who to vote for, they'd lose the tax exempt status. The Catholic Church pays for abortions in Canada.

4. Other Issues: WE'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN EVER BE PART OF THE USA.

WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? WE'RE ONE OF THE BEST NATIONS IN THE WORLD, AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 20.

 

[sartre play]

1. Our economy is VERY DIFFERENT from yours. Our tax dollars go to our poorest citizens, not the richest, who really don't get a lot of tax breaks. Our health care is paid for by our taxes, and we pay little to nothing out of pocket.

2. We're not interest in your military. Not in the slightest. What a fucking waste of money it has been.

3. I seriously doubt it. You don't give language rights to minorities. What about the French. Your entire NATION is too far to the right to ever be palatable to Canadians. We wouldn't vote for guns, or against abortion - which is fully legal in Canada.

Churches are NOT ALLOWED to participate in politics in Canada. If we had churches telling people who to vote for, they'd lose the tax exempt status. The Catholic Church pays for abortions in Canada.

4. Other Issues: WE'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN EVER BE PART OF THE USA.

WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? WE'RE ONE OF THE BEST NATIONS IN THE WORLD, AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 20.

WOW!

 

[Dragonlady]

WOW!

Why are you surprised by this??? I've had multiple offers to move to the USA and refused every one of them.

Not everyone wants to live in the right wing police state you've become.

 

[braalian]

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States.

Why shouldn’t most of the Canadian provinces become individual states in their own right?

If North and South Dakota get to be states, then why not Manitoba, New Brunswick, etc?

 

[braalian]

With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections.

As well they should. That’s how democracy works

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Why do you persist in duplicity? Are you compensating for something?

That makes no sense. Show us where America is planning to attack Canada.

 

[braalian]

On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

Why?

It has about as many people as Switzerland. It has abundant natural resources. It has a developed economy and an internationally high standard of living.

On what basis are you making this claim?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

jwoodie follows the Trumpian fantasy of world domination.

He has no idea at all about Quebec, its people, its history, its economy, and its culture.

 

[22lcidw]

jwoodie follows the Trumpian fantasy of world domination.

He has no idea at all about Quebec, its people, its history, its economy, and its culture.

Quebec would remain independent. Other parts of Canada are not too fond of them also.

 

[Dragonlady]

I had more of a cleansing in mind.....Every BS notion they have has a french name attached to it. They would have to go.

And you wonder why Canadians would rather be dead than Americans.

Why don’t you join Canada instead. We have a much better constitution and I’m much better government and we will eliminate lobbying, PACS, and churches who participate in politics with loser, talked exempt status.

You’d have universal healthcare at half the cost of your current healthcare. Abortions would be legal and free to anyone who wants one. Our child tax benefit is $500 per month, per child.

Between our $17 minimum wage, and our $19,000 guarantee of income for seniors, the American people would be much better off becoming part of Canada than they are with the mess you have now.

Of course you will have to give up your handguns.

 

[Dragonlady]

Quebec would remain independent. Other parts of Canada are not too fond of them also.

Yeah, really we have a much bigger problem with the selfish right wing assholes in Alberta than we have with the French in Quebec.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Yeah, really we have a much bigger problem with the selfish right wing assholes in Alberta than we have with the French in Quebec.

We will not take Canada, and the eastern part of Canada will make the west submit.

 

[DGS49]

I've said it here before, Trudeau lost the popular vote to the Conservatives in the last elections so Canada isn't entirely a guaranteed left-wing nation and with the expansion of the S.I.C, heavy taxes, unaccountable leaders at all levels, record homelessness with more to follow,dying in Emergency Rooms, Canadians are not feeling very content at the moment.

It isn't necessary a con vs lib debate, it is the construct of our system from either party that has stifled innovation and self determination at the behest of low performing career government thieves. We have people trying to expose the bad apples in our police apparatuses, but they can't expose the icing out of people from their careers, the control of the courts and healthcare and choosing who receives good care and who doesn't. That is the level of evil being imposed here with little exposure. I am one of the few who has the details and receipts and have shared them with American authorities (among others).

Furthermore, as time rolled on and these new Americans became familiar with a Republic, as I have without even having lived in the U.S; many would shift their ideological leanings almost certainly.

There would be immense resistance to becoming a 51st state both here and in the U.K from the Establishment Many are offended by the notion but most citizens know very little about America, they just know what media presents to them. The E.U was formed from many independent nations and it worked well for them, the problem is the Old Guard KNOW that they would lose their central control.

We are after all still the descendants of British subjects and monarchies. I think after the IPSOS poll came out that showed that 43% of adults under 30 would accept being American if given citizenship and living with U.S dollars, the media started to get worried. They realized that Trump could essentially gain young Canadian votes through tariffs and they realize now that if Trump is truly serious and patient enough about bringing industries back to America, with a strong message to Americans; it would impact the next generation of Canadians immensely. We already make $25k less than Americans and I believe $20k less than Aussies. I mean, how??!?

There was also a poll of the U,K that only 40% of young adults were proud to be British. What a shift from say the 70s or 80s, our centralized systems that crush individual rights and independence isn't so popular now that citizens have the internet, can see social media and compare their existence to American, Japanese or even Chinese citizens lives. Hell, at least in China even if one made half of what they did in their country, their cost of living might be 30% of the costs, especially if they have a husband or wife and if they make a good living, they would be living a great life The Chinese for all their faults despise caste systems, they find them immensely offensive.

Thus, the only way Canada would agree to become a U.S state would be through a referendum of Canadians directly and guarantees to citizens that they would have protection of the U.S Constitution (which is light years more protective than the Charter which the covert police in Canada spit on and laugh at), a dollar for dollar translation to U.S funds from Canadian funds, and, maybe a big sweetener for every citizen over age 18, similar to the premise I posted on here about purchasing Greenland. Freedom and money talk.

That is a tall order to convince Canadians, especially of those older than 50 or 60 who lived through better times.

The most sure route would take more time, but, it would be to more freely offer citizenship to Canadians and offer them immediate Constitutional protections if they moved to America. You could then rally to encourage Canadians to consider an economic relationship and over time statehood as you would have an additional number of millions of Canadians and they would probably be 80% Conservatives/Libertarians. You'd almost certainly take a large swath of ambitious citizens from Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario in particular.

That would be long game which Trump wouldn't be around to see the ultimate fruition of but he would get some of the most talent and ambitious Canadians for the moment and in the future he would be viewed as the visionary who called this potential for the first time in 2025.

Otherwise, and I'm not totally convinced that Trump isn't already in this mode of calculation already; he would have to really stick to his guns about tariffs and try and squeeze Canada. We would retaliate for certain. it is just that we would feel by far the greater impact just as China feels the far greater effect of tariffs against since they export far more to the U.S and the U.S is the great consumer economy.
How
Who knows if this is his plan, he tried it last time for a year and we retaliated then as well. I did find it interesting that Trump is securing rare minerals from Ukraine, that would be a boon for the U.S and decrease their reliance on Canadian minerals. Maybe it's just coincidence, but with all his talk about "not needing anything from Canada (a bit of a stretch at the moment as we export so much to you)"...who knows what he is considering in the big picture?

How could you not mention "free" healthcare That's the first thing that pops out of the faces of Canadians that I've talked to.

I think it will happen over time, starting with a single currency. Once that is done, everything else will fall in line. But not in my lifetime (I'm 75).

 

[jwoodie]

How could you not mention "free" healthcare That's the first thing that pops out of the faces of Canadians that I've talked to.

I talked to a Canadian who had retired from IBM a few years ago. She said the best thing about her severance package was private health insurance!

I think it will happen over time, starting with a single currency.

Eleven foreign countries already use US currency, including Panama, Ecuador and El Salvador.