Zone1 Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?

[forkintheroad7]

It doesn't address it, therefore God didn't think it was critical for us to worry about.

says you. You are not Jesus. I don't have to listen to your human-derived interpretations of the Word

 

[forkintheroad7]

It only matters when someone tries to elevate Mary above what she actually was, one of God's agents that He picked, blessed and set on a hard road. I've talked with a Catholic woman who prayed to Mary, hoping that she would hear the prayer and take it to Jesus, and that He would listen to Mary more than He would the woman who was supposed to be praying directly to Him. That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.

How is it sad?

And you non-Catholics have some bizarre beliefs yourself (not that what you say here is bizarre; it is not), especially about the salvation of a Catholic, something you have no place to speak on since most of you get Catholicism WRONG most of the time (to say the least). Then there's that pesky little thing about how you are not the ultimate Judge of who is saved and who is not.

 

[hadit]

I am simply pointing out what the original word used meant. Kin. Of course it could reference children, step-children, nieces, nephews, cousins. The point is, the Mary told the angel she would not know man.

No, she said she did not know a man, not that she never would. Why would she marry Joseph, intending to remain celibate and forcing him to be as well?

Jesus assigned John to care for his mother. In the early church it was said Mary remained a virgin, and some said the 'brethren' translation was misleading as some might take it to mean Mary had other children. This was laughed away as the response was, "No one is going to believe that!"

Do you have a source for that?

That is reaching. These others would have their own parents to care for and who would have come first.

No, the custom was that family would take care of widows. When we see that Mary is present to see Jesus with either children or extended family, that means she had relatives that would have been obligated to take care of her. Jesus deliberately chose John to take care of her. Why is not recorded, so obviously God didn't think it vital that we know.

Why is it so important that Mary had other children? I've studied the original words; I've studied the traditions. I'm not seeing it...except through poor translations.

What's important is what I've seen where Mary assumes greater importance to believers than she should. There are those who literally worship her instead of God, believing she will make their requests more important to God than if they came straight from them. I know, I know, you claim they don't, and I can only hope that few do, but I believe it's fairly common that they do.

 

[hadit]

says you. You are not Jesus. I don't have to listen to your human-derived interpretations of the Word

I would hope you would not listen to me but to the Word, and not put church tradition above it.

 

[hadit]

How is it sad?

It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God. I would hope that you would know that.

And you non-Catholics have some bizarre beliefs yourself (not that what you say here is bizarre; it is not), especially about the salvation of a Catholic, something you have no place to speak on since most of you get Catholicism WRONG most of the time (to say the least). Then there's that pesky little thing about how you are not the ultimate Judge of who is saved and who is not.

The Word says who is saved and who is not. Why would you even attempt to put that on me? I certainly have never claimed that authority.

You sound like someone has touched on a nerve with that defensive statement.

 

[forkintheroad7]

No, she said she did not know a man, not that she never would.

Wow, utterly amazing how anti-Catholics ignore the CLEAR words of Scripture so as to hold onto to their protestant beliefs! And why do they even have those protestant beliefs? Because some non-Catholic preached to them against Catholicism (is the answer much of the time). Why are you letting some protestant pastor decide what you believe, even when it clearly defies Scripture? Then you gripe about Catholics listening to the pope

(few listen to Francis but that's another topic for another thread).

You have not answered to the scripture psg in Luke about Mary being surprised, incredulous that she would bear a child. She was betrothed to Joseph so why would that surprise her unless she had taken a vow of virginity?

I've noticed non Catholics generally do not like the idea of celibacy and virginity..

Really peculiar. Jesus was celibate all his life

 

[forkintheroad7]

It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God.

no one worships Mary over Jesus. You've been LIED to.

 

[forkintheroad7]

It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God. I would hope that you would know that.

The Word says who is saved and who is not.

Where?

I've read the entire Bible and nowhere did I find where it said that some person or another was saved, another one over there was/is not.

You are bending yourself into a pretzel and borderline lying just to support what you purport to believe. Maybe you should once in awhile question what that is

 

[Foxfyre]

It only matters when someone tries to elevate Mary above what she actually was, one of God's agents that He picked, blessed and set on a hard road. I've talked with a Catholic woman who prayed to Mary, hoping that she would hear the prayer and take it to Jesus, and that He would listen to Mary more than He would the woman who was supposed to be praying directly to Him. That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.

I allow people to worship or pray as they feel is right for them. I don't see any harm in praying to Mary so long as we have faith in God and know He is the one who answers the prayer. I don't personally believe that Mary or any of the saints are necessary to intercede for us and I would never teach that, but I think God allows the faithful a lot of leeway in these things.

 

[hadit]

no one worships Mary over Jesus. You've been LIED to.

Yes, that sweet old Catholic lady who said she prayed to Mary, hoping that would make her prayer more important in God's eyes, was lying. There is only one name given by which we can approach the throne, one.

 

[BackAgain]

I thought Jesus later had a brother (a son of Mary).

Who says her virginity lasted much further than her giving birth to Jesus?

 

[Meriweather]

I've seen where Mary assumes greater importance to believers than she should

How many times have you, personally, seen this? For example, I haven't seen any--and I'm Catholic.

 

[Foxfyre]

I wish I could remember where at one time I read there were people in that time who chose to remain virgins or become celibate. It was a remarkable vow and would have been noteworthy simply because Jews were expected (and most wanted) to have many children. People of her own time could have nodded at Mary, whispering, She is one of them....It wouldn't have been said with admiration, either.

There is simply nothing in scripture to inform us one way or the other. It was necessary perhaps that Mary remain a virgin until Jesus birth to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah 7.14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. That Mary remain a virgin after Jesus' birth was apparently not important at all to Matthew and Luke who wrote the Christmas narratives as it was never mentioned.

 

[hadit]

Wow, utterly amazing how anti-Catholics ignore the CLEAR words of Scripture so as to hold onto to their protestant beliefs! And why do they even have those protestant beliefs? Because some non-Catholic preached to them against Catholicism (is the answer much of the time). Why are you letting some protestant pastor decide what you believe, even when it clearly defies Scripture? Then you gripe about Catholics listening to the pope

(few listen to Francis but that's another topic for another thread).

You have not answered to the scripture psg in Luke about Mary being surprised, incredulous that she would bear a child. She was betrothed to Joseph so why would that surprise her unless she had taken a vow of virginity?

Perhaps because the angel said SHE would conceive, with no mention of Joseph. Again, there is no Scriptural support that she had taken a vow of virginity which would force Joseph to also remain celibate. And, in the tradition Catholics love to walk, we don't know that we have every word recorded that the angel gave her, therefore, it was very likely that she understood something from the message that meant she alone was going to conceive without a man. Perhaps in her excitement to be talking with an angel, her betrothal went out the window. See, when we start adding things to Scripture, we can make up all kinds of plausible arguments.

I've noticed non Catholics generally do not like the idea of celibacy and virginity..

Really peculiar. Jesus was celibate all his life

Yes, He was. He was set aside for a ministry like no other. His cousin John the Baptist likewise was almost certainly celibate, being a Nazarite. Mary was set aside solely to be Jesus' earthly mother, and Joseph His earthly father. There's no problem with them having a robust sex life and multiple children after Jesus was born.

It's amazing to me how hard Catholics argue that Mary had to remain a virgin her entire life when there's really no reason for it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Humans are always trying to bring God down to their own carnal or natural level.

It doesn't matter to you (to answer your question) but it did to God. See my other posts here about how Mary was incredulous that she would have a child. Why? She was getting ready to be married, was betrothed to J... so WHY would she ask


HOW can this be? (emphasis added)

How don't see how this affects what I wrote one way or the other.

 

[Meriweather]

There is simply nothing in scripture to inform us one way or the other. It was necessary perhaps that Mary remain a virgin until Jesus birth to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah 7.14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. That Mary remain a virgin after Jesus' birth was apparently not important at all to Matthew and Luke who wrote the Christmas narratives as it was never mentioned.

Except...Isaiah was not referencing Mary, but a young woman (his daughter) who was married to King Hezekiah and who would bear the king's child.

 

[Grumpyolman]

The Roman Catholic religion is very old. Pagan religion had two "gods" one male , one female.
Mary was elevated in Catholisism to give the pagans a female entity to pray to.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I allow people to worship or pray as they feel is right for them. I don't see any harm in praying to Mary so long as we have faith in God and know He is the one who answers the prayer. I don't personally believe that Mary or any of the saints are necessary to intercede for us and I would never teach that, but I think God allows the faithful a lot of leeway in these things.

I have often felt the same wway, even as a practicing Cahtolic, that there wasn't much need to pray to the saints. But when I encountered a seemingly impossible situation not long ago, I found myself praying to the St of Impossible Things, St Jude. The situation is not entirely resolved but I know how I felt after praying to him: I felt listened to. Maybe feelings alone don't count for much, but I really, really appreciated feeling

hopeful

 

[forkintheroad7]

The Roman Catholic religion is very old. Pagan religion had two "gods" one male , one female.
Mary was elevated in Catholisism to give the pagans a female entity to pray to.

maybe. I don't know. I've studied Church history but I can't say I am an expert (yet).

In any case, Mary appeared to the children @ Fatima. She likely chose children

well, for obvious reasons

They listen. They are open. They are innocent.

 

[forkintheroad7]

How don't see how this affects what I wrote one way or the other.

what?

I didn't know I was attempting to affect what you wrote...? I don't get this