Zone1 Is the middle class being destroyed in the US?

[initforme]

Ideal? No. But there are ways to have a family if one is willing to make sacrifices in the early years until both parents can work full-time.

People are saying "no" to living poorly and "sacrificing" just to have kids. Neither party has a clue how to change it. Wait until yhe birth rate its under 1.0, corporate heads will be panicing. They will wonder where their workforce is.

 

[Lisa558]

People are saying "no" to living poorly and "sacrificing" just to have kids. Neither party has a clue how to change it. Wait until yhe birth rate its under 1.0, corporate heads will be panicing. They will wonder where their workforce is.

That’s a poor decision. My grandparents didn’t decide that way, nor did the other 100 million poor people who had children and raised good families.

Nothing wrong with renting a modest apartment if that’s what you can afford.

 

[initforme]

That’s a poor decision. My grandparents didn’t decide that way, nor did the other 100 million poor people who had children and raised good families.

Nothing wrong with renting a modest apartment if that’s what you can afford.

It will be interesting to watch big business heads see their workforce birth rate dip below 1.0.

 

[Woodznutz]

We should have an economy shaped like a pyramid. Few rich on top expanding downward to those who make less.

Now we have one shaped like an hour glass of sorts. Lots of wealthy, lots of poor and a shrinking number of financially secure

Those of us in the top of the hourglass are largely supporting those in the bottom. They pay no taxes and receive the lion's share of social services. It's all good.

 

[Lisa558]

It will be interesting to watch big business heads see their workforce birth rate dip below 1.0.

Drive through any inner-city ghetto in the mid-afternoon, mid-week. Plenty of young men hanging around on stoops, shooting the breeze. We just need to cut off welfare…..and there are your new job-seekers.

 

[Unkotare]

Drive through any inner-city ghetto in the mid-afternoon, mid-week. Plenty of young men hanging around on stoops, shooting the breeze. We just need to cut off welfare…..and there are your new job-seekers.

**** your shit

 

[Mr Natural]

Drive through any inner-city ghetto in the mid-afternoon, mid-week. Plenty of young men hanging around on stoops, shooting the breeze. We just need to cut off welfare…..and there are your new job-seekers.

Yep!

Just sitting around enjoying the good life at your expense.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I see a number of threads here saying the middle class being destroyed or the middle class being worse today than in the past.

But was it not easer to get a job before than today? Also jobs paid better before than today and jobs were more secure than today.

A number of people in other threads here say the middle class is being destroyed now.

Well, in the UK, the working class are moving Right Wing, so I can see the Middle Class moving in that direction too. Minimum wage has destroyed wages. In the long-term, Left Wing policies are disingenuous to all classes, it just takes time for folk to realise.

 

[jc456]

Lots to unpack here, but a big part of the problem with parents “not being able to afford kids” is the level to which what is considered a “decent life” has risen. Nowadays, young families want a house with enough bedrooms for each kid, plus a guest room, plus three bathrooms, plus two cars, plus of course dinners out a couple of times a week, a vacation to Disneyland, etc., etc.

People who want kids need to reset their perspective and model a lifestyle from a couple of generations back. While the kids are pre-school, the family rents a modest 2-bedroom apartment and the kids share one bedroom. There is one car for the family. Dinners out are for special occasions. Vacations are to visit Grandma.

Then, when the younger is 6, the mother gets a full-time job and hires an after-school babysitter. With the extra income, they can move to a nicer 3-bedroom apartment, or perhaps buy a small 3-bedroom townhouse.

And college? The kids can start at community college, win academic transfer scholarships, and go to the State U for the final two years.

Ideal? No. But there are ways to have a family if one is willing to make sacrifices in the early years until both parents can work full-time.

Right?

 

[candycorn]

Those of us in the top of the hourglass are largely supporting those in the bottom.

sure...

They pay no taxes and receive the lion's share of social services. It's all good.

As long as you stay on top (I’m playing along with your fantasy), it’s all good.

Meanwhile, in a more equitable capitalist society the optimum climate is one like I described. Those with unusual drive, desire, intelligence, fortitude, or luck in many cases are on top or are climbing. That is why the top of the pyramid is smaller than the rest of it; all of that is rewarded. Those who are not any of those either maintain or decline.

Today the rich have their wealth insulated by tax codes; access to information that the rest of us do not, and are favored by the political machine. None of which is the fault of any single political party.

What is more prevalent than it used to be however is that the rich and wealthy--those born on 3rd base if you will--are convinced that they hit a triple.

 

[Woodznutz]

sure...

As long as you stay on top (I’m playing along with your fantasy), it’s all good.

Meanwhile, in a more equitable capitalist society the optimum climate is one like I described. Those with unusual drive, desire, intelligence, fortitude, or luck in many cases are on top or are climbing. That is why the top of the pyramid is smaller than the rest of it; all of that is rewarded. Those who are not any of those either maintain or decline.

Today the rich have their wealth insulated by tax codes; access to information that the rest of us do not, and are favored by the political machine. None of which is the fault of any single political party.

What is more prevalent than it used to be however is that the rich and wealthy--those born on 3rd base if you will--are convinced that they hit a triple.

The financial condition of people should be examined and assessed one individual at a time. Statistics don't reveal much.

 

[Hafar1014]

sure...

As long as you stay on top (I’m playing along with your fantasy), it’s all good.

Meanwhile, in a more equitable capitalist society the optimum climate is one like I described. Those with unusual drive, desire, intelligence, fortitude, or luck in many cases are on top or are climbing. That is why the top of the pyramid is smaller than the rest of it; all of that is rewarded. Those who are not any of those either maintain or decline.

Today the rich have their wealth insulated by tax codes; access to information that the rest of us do not, and are favored by the political machine. None of which is the fault of any single political party.

What is more prevalent than it used to be however is that the rich and wealthy--those born on 3rd base if you will--are convinced that they hit a triple.

The rich arent the problem the government is. Think how much wealth they control. When the rich get richer we all do, when the government gets richer we get poor

 

[ding]

oh it's possible - just out of reach for most young'ns is all. in fact, 40 yrs ago, we lived on one income @$25K, had a home, a kid, & 2 vehicles. it was hard & certainly not the norm.

now, it's damn near impossible.

That all depends on one's priorities and needs. Do you have to have two cars? Do you have to have day care? Do you have to have cell phones? Do you have to have cable TV? Do you have to eat out? Do you have to go on vacations?

 

[ding]

Of course there is. But if they cannot survive on one salary then what should they do? Have kids they cannot afford to take care of?

I'd start by following Dave Ramsey's advice. I wouldn't just default to we need a second income.

Isn't being there to raise our kids the most important thing we can do?

 

[Hafar1014]

That all depends on one's priorities and needs. Do you have to have two cars? Do you have to have day care? Do you have to have cell phones? Do you have to have cable TV? Do you have to eat out? Do you have to go on vacations?

We pay more taxes today thats what ended thr one income family

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

People are saying "no" to living poorly and "sacrificing" just to have kids. Neither party has a clue how to change it. Wait until yhe birth rate its under 1.0, corporate heads will be panicing. They will wonder where their workforce is.

AI will reduce the need for a workforce.

 

[initforme]

I'd start by following Dave Ramsey's advice. I wouldn't just default to we need a second income.

Isn't being there to raise our kids the most important thing we can do?

It is. But dave ramsey cannot change what is reality. Hes a good man, and i strongly believe he would say dont be STUPID and have kids before you can afford them.

 

[ding]

It is. But dave ramsey cannot change what is reality. Hes a good man, and i strongly believe he would say dont be STUPID and have kids before you can afford them.

If people waited to have kids until they could afford them they would never have kids. Old people aren't designed to have kids. Young people are.

No, Dave Ramsey does not advise waiting until you are completely financially "ready" or debt-free to have children. He often states that if people waited until they could perfectly afford children, they would never have them. He believes children are worth more than money and that you should have babies if you want them, even if you are still paying off debt.

Key Takeaways on Having Children According to Dave Ramsey:

• Don't Let Debt Stop You: Ramsey frequently tells listeners that they do not need to be debt-free or have a huge, established savings account to start a family.
• Prioritize Love over Money: He emphasizes that as long as children have food, shelter, and loving parents, they will be fine, and you can manage the finances while parenting.
• Adjust Your Lifestyle: Having kids may require slowing down your debt-payoff pace or pausing certain financial goals for a while.
• Avoid Excessive Spending: He advises against going into further debt for fancy baby gear, suggesting that parents should buy used items or accept hand-me-downs rather than buying new.
• The Exception: The only time he suggests waiting is in extreme cases, such as being in complete financial crisis (e.g., in danger of losing a home).

Essentially, Ramsey encourages starting a family when you are ready to be parents, rather than when you are perfectly wealthy.

 

[initforme]

If people waited to have kids until they could afford them they would never have kids. Old people aren't designed to have kids. Young people are.

No, Dave Ramsey does not advise waiting until you are completely financially "ready" or debt-free to have children. He often states that if people waited until they could perfectly afford children, they would never have them. He believes children are worth more than money and that you should have babies if you want them, even if you are still paying off debt.

Key Takeaways on Having Children According to Dave Ramsey:

• Don't Let Debt Stop You: Ramsey frequently tells listeners that they do not need to be debt-free or have a huge, established savings account to start a family.
• Prioritize Love over Money: He emphasizes that as long as children have food, shelter, and loving parents, they will be fine, and you can manage the finances while parenting.
• Adjust Your Lifestyle: Having kids may require slowing down your debt-payoff pace or pausing certain financial goals for a while.
• Avoid Excessive Spending: He advises against going into further debt for fancy baby gear, suggesting that parents should buy used items or accept hand-me-downs rather than buying new.
• The Exception: The only time he suggests waiting is in extreme cases, such as being in complete financial crisis (e.g., in danger of losing a home).

Essentially, Ramsey encourages starting a family when you are ready to be parents, rather than when you are perfectly wealthy.

And if said marriage ends and one has no acquired skills, no $$, theyre stuck. Its over. Terrible spot. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

 

[ding]

And if said marriage ends and one has no acquired skills, no $$, theyre stuck. Its over. Terrible spot. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

Only if he or she chose the wrong mate. But yes, it would be hard. Not impossible though. There are laws in place to help mitigate that.