Zone1 Is socialism dying abroad?....

[otto105]

Outdated.... he was a pre modern era economist and would undoubtedly think differently today about many aspects of his position... that's why we can't look back is history without taking in the facts and circumstances of the age we are looking at....
A lot of people do that to try and make a point about issues today and its wrong to do that....

So, the political economy of ayn rand?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Outdated.... he was a pre modern era economist and would undoubtedly think differently today about many aspects of his position... that's why we can't look back is history without taking in the facts and circumstances of the age we are looking at....
A lot of people do that to try and make a point about issues today and its wrong to do that....

Right, and that's why your claims are comical. China, Vietnam, South Korea, and even Singapore are investing heavily in automating all of their factories and are planning for a future without wage labor. That implies a centrally planned, marketless, non-profit system of production, a.k.a. socialism. HELLO!?

​

 

[TruthNotBS]

So, the political economy of ayn rand?

Hahaha..That would essentially be absolute chaos. Everyone would be homeless or forced into cattle cars and transported to a concentration camp. That's Ayn Rand's economics in the 21st century. Only the rich survive because they own all of the robots and factories and the working class is consigned to the compost heap. These right-wingers live in lalaland.

 

[otto105]

Hahaha..That would essentially be absolute chaos. Everyone would be homeless or forced into cattle cars and transported to a concentration camp. That's Ayn Rand's economics in the 21st century. Only the rich survive because they own all of the robots and factories and the working class is consigned to the compost heap. These right-wingers live in lalaland.

The ruling class would rule.

Ruling being billionaires

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Big win for economic freedom in Argentina... the people have had enough of socialism and big government... Maybe we should take a hint from the rest of the world and go back to America first and American citizens first.... say what you want about Trump he was way ahead of this guy and just as right too...

“Is socialism dying abroad?”

‘Socialism’ is essentially dead – in the United States and abroad.

It’s being replaced with the rise of rightwing fascism – in the United States and abroad.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So you're now confessing here before everyone that the Republicans are wrong when they assert universal healthcare (Medicare For All) is "socialism", unionizing labor is "socialism" and guaranteeing everyone has a right to at least basic housing is "socialism", and high taxation for the rich is "socialism" and nationalizing big oil, gas, and utility companies is "communism" ..on and on..one policy after another. You're admitting now that these government policies aren't socialism and if we enact them here in America you personally wouldn't identify them as socialism and other Republicans shouldn't either. Right?

No

For me to confess anything about the republicans would require me to be a republican

You are incredibly dense and uninformed

 

[Soupnazi630]

View attachment 867432​

LOL! You're the one fantasizing. What a joke.

No I am correct and you cannot refute any of it

 

[Soupnazi630]

We must live in two different worlds. Colombia, Bolivia, Brazil, Peru (The US ousted the socialist president but Peruvians are now re-electing socialists, hence American capitalist elites aren't going to have their way with Peru), Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Mexico is moving to the left as well...etc. The Zoomers (our youth) are mostly leftists, and Western Europe is full of leftist governments with socialist parties in their parliaments. Socialism is growing and that's without even factoring in advanced automation and artificial intelligence. That's the nail in the coffin for capitalism.

​

Wrong'

Musk is no expert and you have no evidence for your constant drum banging about automation

Socialism is dying and nothing can change that boy

 

[TruthNotBS]

Wrong'

Musk is no expert and you have no evidence for your constant drum banging about automation

Socialism is dying and nothing can change that boy

 

[TruthNotBS]

No I am correct and you cannot refute any of it

 

[TruthNotBS]

No

For me to confess anything about the republicans would require me to be a republican

You are incredibly dense and uninformed

Says the person suffering from cognitive dissonance, who ignores the fact automation is taking jobs.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No I am correct and you cannot refute any of it

 

[Soupnazi630]

Says the person suffering from cognitive dissonance, who ignores the fact automation is taking jobs.

While creating the need for even MORE jobs than are replaced.

An absolute fact destroying tour bullshit which you willfully ignore

 

[TruthNotBS]

While creating the need for even MORE jobs than are replaced.

An absolute fact destroying tour bullshit which you willfully ignore

What you actually ignore is that millions of more jobs are replaced by advanced automation, to a point that there aren't enough jobs. How many robot repair techs do you think the market is going to need? Moreover, not everyone can become an IT tech even if they try. The technology is becoming so advanced that it will repair itself, so even those who have the intelligence and patience to be successful technicians will also be out of a job.

Within the next 15 years, it's estimated by economists and well-informed members of the ruling class (billionaires, the ultra-rich elites), that the government is going to have to intervene in the economy (a.k.a. socialism) at an unprecedented scale, due to the inevitable mass unemployment that advanced automation is going to create. You're the one who is "willfully ignoring" these facts.

Notice everyone how Soupnazi in a few of his previous posts claims I'm not an expert on this issue. How does he know that, is he a psychic? But for the sake of argument, let's assume I'm not an expert or trained economist. So what? I can present the professional opinions of trained economists on my posts, by quoting their books or by embedding videos where you see the economists saying exactly what I am saying. He considers all videos "poor evidence" and "just entertainment".

I doubt that if he were on trial for a crime he didn't commit and there was video evidence showing he wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, but hundreds of miles away, he would jump at the opportunity of having those videos submitted as evidence. The fact that evidence or information is on video doesn't by default render it mere "entertainment" or inadmissible.

Soupnazi is simply unable to come to terms with the fact that advanced 21st-century automation and artificial intelligence are going to eliminate wage labor and create the necessity for socialism (a non-profit, publicly owned, marketless, mode of production). Why are so many economists and billionaires always talking about the need for UBI or "Universal Basic Income"? Because they know that in the not-too-distant future, there aren't going to be enough jobs for people to earn an income from, hence the government has to bail out capitalism, with a "little socialism". That "little" part will eventually become much more pronounced and involved as automation and artificial intelligence continue to advance.

The economists and wealthy ruling elites know this, hence they push for a UBI to hopefully keep capitalism on life-support for a couple of more decades while they figure out how to maintain their wealth and power. Without adopting a non-profit, publicly-owned mode of production, we're inevitably heading toward techno-feudalism. Slavery.

The following videos are indeed just for "entertainment". A mere illustration of what might happen in the future, if we don't adopt a non-profit, publicly owned system of production.

​

 

[Soupnazi630]

What you actually ignore is that millions of more jobs are replaced by advanced automation, to a point that there aren't enough jobs. How many robot repair techs do you think the market is going to need? Moreover, not everyone can become an IT tech even if they try. The technology is becoming so advanced that it will repair itself, so even those who have the intelligence and patience to be successful technicians will also be out of a job.

Within the next 15 years, it's estimated by economists and well-informed members of the ruling class (billionaires, the ultra-rich elites), that the government is going to have to intervene in the economy (a.k.a. socialism) at an unprecedented scale, due to the inevitable mass unemployment that advanced automation is going to create. You're the one who is "willfully ignoring" these facts.

Notice everyone how Soupnazi in a few of his previous posts claims I'm not an expert on this issue. How does he know that, is he a psychic? But for the sake of argument, let's assume I'm not an expert or trained economist. So what? I can present the professional opinions of trained economists on my posts, by quoting their books or by embedding videos where you see the economists saying exactly what I am saying. He considers all videos "poor evidence" and "just entertainment".

I doubt that if he were on trial for a crime he didn't commit and there was video evidence showing he wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, but hundreds of miles away, he would jump at the opportunity of having those videos submitted as evidence. The fact that evidence or information is on video doesn't by default render it mere "entertainment" or inadmissible.

Soupnazi is simply unable to come to terms with the fact that advanced 21st-century automation and artificial intelligence are going to eliminate wage labor and create the necessity for socialism (a non-profit, publicly owned, marketless, mode of production). Why are so many economists and billionaires always talking about the need for UBI or "Universal Basic Income"? Because they know that in the not-too-distant future, there aren't going to be enough jobs for people to earn an income from, hence the government has to bail out capitalism, with a "little socialism". That "little" part will eventually become much more pronounced and involved as automation and artificial intelligence continue to advance.

The economists and wealthy ruling elites know this, hence they push for a UBI to hopefully keep capitalism on life-support for a couple of more decades while they figure out how to maintain their wealth and power. Without adopting a non-profit, publicly-owned mode of production, we're inevitably heading toward techno-feudalism. Slavery.

The following videos are indeed just for "entertainment". A mere illustration of what might happen in the future, if we don't adopt a non-profit, publicly owned sWro

What you actually ignore is that millions of more jobs are replaced by advanced automation, to a point that there aren't enough jobs. How many robot repair techs do you think the market is going to need? Moreover, not everyone can become an IT tech even if they try. The technology is becoming so advanced that it will repair itself, so even those who have the intelligence and patience to be successful technicians will also be out of a job.

Within the next 15 years, it's estimated by economists and well-informed members of the ruling class (billionaires, the ultra-rich elites), that the government is going to have to intervene in the economy (a.k.a. socialism) at an unprecedented scale, due to the inevitable mass unemployment that advanced automation is going to create. You're the one who is "willfully ignoring" these facts.

Notice everyone how Soupnazi in a few of his previous posts claims I'm not an expert on this issue. How does he know that, is he a psychic? But for the sake of argument, let's assume I'm not an expert or trained economist. So what? I can present the professional opinions of trained economists on my posts, by quoting their books or by embedding videos where you see the economists saying exactly what I am saying. He considers all videos "poor evidence" and "just entertainment".

I doubt that if he were on trial for a crime he didn't commit and there was video evidence showing he wasn't anywhere near the crime scene, but hundreds of miles away, he would jump at the opportunity of having those videos submitted as evidence. The fact that evidence or information is on video doesn't by default render it mere "entertainment" or inadmissible.

Soupnazi is simply unable to come to terms with the fact that advanced 21st-century automation and artificial intelligence are going to eliminate wage labor and create the necessity for socialism (a non-profit, publicly owned, marketless, mode of production). Why are so many economists and billionaires always talking about the need for UBI or "Universal Basic Income"? Because they know that in the not-too-distant future, there aren't going to be enough jobs for people to earn an income from, hence the government has to bail out capitalism, with a "little socialism". That "little" part will eventually become much more pronounced and involved as automation and artificial intelligence continue to advance.

The economists and wealthy ruling elites know this, hence they push for a UBI to hopefully keep capitalism on life-support for a couple of more decades while they figure out how to maintain their wealth and power. Without adopting a non-profit, publicly-owned mode of production, we're inevitably heading toward techno-feudalism. Slavery.

The following videos are indeed just for "entertainment". A mere illustration of what might happen in the future, if we don't adopt a non-profit, publicly owned system of production.

​

Wrong

Millions MORE are created than are lost

Your claim is a proven abbsolute LIE

The technology is not able to repair itself oir even close. yet another lie from you.

Your estimates are inly made by the ignorant who ignore reality like YOU.

It isa a proven fact you are no expert for several reasons such as the facty that ALL proven experts outright reject marxism,

Because marx was a fool

I am ignoring no facts YOU ARE DOING SO

I am stating facts proving you WRONG

Your claim is not fact at all automation and advanced tech will demand more unfeterred capitalism and more jobns

You have presented nothiing but murky tea leaf predictions devoid of ANY evidence or logic whatsoever

 

[TruthNotBS]

Wrong

Millions MORE are created than are lost

Your claim is a proven abbsolute LIE

The technology is not able to repair itself oir even close. yet another lie from you.

Your estimates are inly made by the ignorant who ignore reality like YOU.

It isa a proven fact you are no expert for several reasons such as the facty that ALL proven experts outright reject marxism,

Because marx was a fool

I am ignoring no facts YOU ARE DOING SO

I am stating facts proving you WRONG

Your claim is not fact at all automation and advanced tech will demand more unfeterred capitalism and more jobns

You have presented nothiing but murky tea leaf predictions devoid of ANY evidence or logic whatsoever

Wrong. Millions MORE are created than are lost

How are more jobs created by automation than our replaced?

Your claim is a proven abbsolute LIE

In what way was it proven an "absolute lie"?

The technology is not able to repair itself oir even close. yet another lie from you.

I didn't say most of the automation technology can at this moment in time, repair itself. That's your straw man argument. Some of the technology can, for example, AI's ability to debug code. In the past we needed programmers like myself to debug lines of code, but now we have AI effectively debugging software and even coding software. I'm a CNC machine programmer, and I'm currently teaching AI to do my job. In a few years, my job will go the way of the dodo.

Your estimates are inly made by the ignorant who ignore reality like YOU.

The reality is that advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to gradually but surely, in the not-too-distant future, eliminate wage-labor (most jobs) and that's why economists and more well-informed and intelligent members of the wealthy ruling class are promoting UBI. They understand that without government intervention, advanced automation and artificial intelligence will collapse capitalism.

It isa a proven fact you are no expert for several reasons such as the facty that ALL proven experts outright reject marxism,

​

Wolff is an expert Marxist economist, and there are many more like him in the world. In the United States, and the capitalist West in general, most economists are for market capitalism. That doesn't imply that Marxism is wrong. Many American pro-capitalist economists recognize that advanced automation is going to lead to mass unemployment and the government is going to have to intervene with a UBI.

Marxist Economists"

Richard D. Wolff

David Harvey

Andrew Kliman

Piero Sraffa

Rosa Luxemburg

Rudolf Hilferding

Paul Sweezy

Anwar Shaikh

Ben Fine

Paul Cockshott

Edvard Kardelj

Because marx was a fool

Karl Marx was a genius and so was Frederick Engels his colleague and fellow philosopher.

I am ignoring no facts YOU ARE DOING SO I am stating facts proving you WRONG

You sound like an 8-year-old having a tantrum.

Your claim is not fact at all automation and advanced tech will demand more unfeterred capitalism and more jobns

How so?

You have presented nothiing but murky tea leaf predictions devoid of ANY evidence or logic whatsoever

Advanced automation is taking jobs right now and not creating new ones. You're living under a rock or a pile of rotting tea leaves.

 

[forkup]

Big win for economic freedom in Argentina... the people have had enough of socialism and big government... Maybe we should take a hint from the rest of the world and go back to America first and American citizens first.... say what you want about Trump he was way ahead of this guy and just as right too...

Socialism isn't dying abroad. Hell it isn't even dying in the US. The question simply is who is the beneficiary of that Socialism.

What you consider Capitalism rarely ever is. I'll give some examples.

When Republicans advocate subsidizing fracking. They're using tax-payer money to help oil companies. Bottom line. The modest gains in employment for those industries in no way offset the total sum offered.

When Democrats subsidizes the Renewable Energy sector the same applies.

Both use the money derived from the people or simply from taking on debt, in order to give corporations money on top of the profits they make from whatever product they sell.

ACA is Socialism. Although not in the way Republicans claim. It's a subsidy for the insurance companies. It takes money from the taxpayer or debt, in order to provide health insurance.

When Republicans did they're big tax cuts, what they did is increase the profit margins for big corporations by decreasing tax income that will have to be covered by debt.

The common theme here is that the government gives money to big corporations in the US that is provided by taxes or debt. That's Socialism. And Trump is perfectly happy with that.


In other countries these kinds of things happen too, just to a lesser degree. Because most of the Social Democracies don't have a political class so directly beholden to those corporations. This means they're more inclined to enact policies that are beneficial to it's citizens. That's how you get Universal Healthcare, cheap quality education, strong unions, good work leisure balance. It's still Socialism, just who benefits from that Socialism is different.



Americans are brainwashed to view Capitalism (corporations) as a benevolent force. And Socialism (the population getting stuff from the government) as not American.
They post stuff like this OP. Identifying the wrong enemy so the rich can line their pockets with money provided by the government.

I always think of this parable. A CEO, a Republican and an Immigrant sit at a table with 40 cookies. The CEO takes 39 and tells the Republican. " Quick the immigrant is trying to steal your cookie, you need to stop him."

 

[Soupnazi630]

Socialism isn't dying abroad. Hell it isn't even dying in the US. The question simply is who is the beneficiary of that Socialism.

What you consider Capitalism rarely ever is. I'll give some examples.

When Republicans advocate subsidizing fracking. They're using tax-payer money to help oil companies. Bottom line. The modest gains in employment for those industries in no way offset the total sum offered.

When Democrats subsidizes the Renewable Energy sector the same applies.

Both use the money derived from the people or simply from taking on debt, in order to give corporations money on top of the profits they make from whatever product they sell.

ACA is Socialism. Although not in the way Republicans claim. It's a subsidy for the insurance companies. It takes money from the taxpayer or debt, in order to provide health insurance.

When Republicans did they're big tax cuts, what they did is increase the profit margins for big corporations by decreasing tax income that will have to be covered by debt.

The common theme here is that the government gives money to big corporations in the US that is provided by taxes or debt. That's Socialism. And Trump is perfectly happy with that.


In other countries these kinds of things happen too, just to a lesser degree. Because most of the Social Democracies don't have a political class so directly beholden to those corporations. This means they're more inclined to enact policies that are beneficial to it's citizens. That's how you get Universal Healthcare, cheap quality education, strong unions, good work leisure balance. It's still Socialism, just who benefits from that Socialism is different.



Americans are brainwashed to view Capitalism (corporations) as a benevolent force. And Socialism (the population getting stuff from the government) as not American.
They post stuff like this OP. Identifying the wrong enemy so the rich can line their pockets with money provided by the government.

I always think of this parable. A CEO, a Republican and an Immigrant sit at a table with 40 cookies. The CEO takes 39 and tells the Republican. " Quick the immigrant is trying to steal your cookie, you need to stop him."

The answer is more jobs are created by adnanced tech than are lost

Sorry but your example of AI debugging itself is a ailure no machine can repair itself.

The tantrum is when one posts memes without comment as you have done


Richard wolff is not an espert economist he is a proven blithering fool. As are the other buffooons you listed

You liost such people because it is the socialists who are brainwashed and they consistently project as you are doing

Subsidies are not socialism nor is welfare.

Socialism IS dying here and world wide

 

[TruthNotBS]

The answer is more jobs are created by adnanced tech than are lost

Sorry but your example of AI debugging itself is a ailure no machine can repair itself.

The tantrum is when one posts memes without comment as you have done


Richard wolff is not an espert economist he is a proven blithering fool. As are the other buffooons you listed

You liost such people because it is the socialists who are brainwashed and they consistently project as you are doing

Subsidies are not socialism nor is welfare.

Socialism IS dying here and world wide

The answer is more jobs are created by adnanced tech than are lost

How are more paying jobs created with advanced automation and artificial intelligence in a market, capitalist economy?

Sorry but your example of AI debugging itself is a ailure no machine can repair itself.

When AI debugs the code and repairs software the machine is repaired and able to function. I regularly see AI repair machines shut down due to corrupt coding. I'm training AIs to do that, and they're now at a level that cuts my work by 90%. AI both codes and debugs. In the not-too-distant future, intelligent robots will be able to diagnose and repair hardware (replace parts) using diagnostic software, and physical tools, similar to how auto mechanics diagnose cars today and repair them.

The tantrum is when one posts memes without comment as you have done

You obviously don't know what a tantrum is.

Richard wolff is not an espert economist he is a proven blithering fool. As are the other buffooons you listed

You're the "blithering fool".

You liost such people because it is the socialists who are brainwashed and they consistently project as you are doing

You're a brainwashed zombie.

Subsidies are not socialism nor is welfare.

When the government supports companies to keep them in business, that's socialism for the wealthy. UBI is socialist because it creates an artificial customer base and market, propped up by public funds. Why does your free market capitalism need the government to support it financially and keep it in business? Doesn't your beloved "free market" maintain itself? Do you need public funds from the government? Bailouts?

 

[Rambunctious]

Socialism isn't dying abroad. Hell it isn't even dying in the US. The question simply is who is the beneficiary of that Socialism.

What you consider Capitalism rarely ever is. I'll give some examples.

When Republicans advocate subsidizing fracking. They're using tax-payer money to help oil companies. Bottom line. The modest gains in employment for those industries in no way offset the total sum offered.

When Democrats subsidizes the Renewable Energy sector the same applies.

Both use the money derived from the people or simply from taking on debt, in order to give corporations money on top of the profits they make from whatever product they sell.

ACA is Socialism. Although not in the way Republicans claim. It's a subsidy for the insurance companies. It takes money from the taxpayer or debt, in order to provide health insurance.

When Republicans did they're big tax cuts, what they did is increase the profit margins for big corporations by decreasing tax income that will have to be covered by debt.

The common theme here is that the government gives money to big corporations in the US that is provided by taxes or debt. That's Socialism. And Trump is perfectly happy with that.


In other countries these kinds of things happen too, just to a lesser degree. Because most of the Social Democracies don't have a political class so directly beholden to those corporations. This means they're more inclined to enact policies that are beneficial to it's citizens. That's how you get Universal Healthcare, cheap quality education, strong unions, good work leisure balance. It's still Socialism, just who benefits from that Socialism is different.



Americans are brainwashed to view Capitalism (corporations) as a benevolent force. And Socialism (the population getting stuff from the government) as not American.
They post stuff like this OP. Identifying the wrong enemy so the rich can line their pockets with money provided by the government.

I always think of this parable. A CEO, a Republican and an Immigrant sit at a table with 40 cookies. The CEO takes 39 and tells the Republican. " Quick the immigrant is trying to steal your cookie, you need to stop him."

Wrong... socialism is dying here too as well as abroad... we elected Trump in 2016 and in 2020... the election was covid rigged... America wants nothing to do with socialism... not sure you libs here want to hear this but its true....