Is it time for Universal Healthcare....and can it be done?

[WillowTree]

What fix is there?

We expand the current Medicare - Medicare Advantage - Medicare Supplement system to all. An excellent, already-functioning blend of public money and free market competition and innovation.

The Supplements and MA plans are optional, and people can just buy up. We'd catch and fix problems much earlier, before they become larger and more costly problems. We take a MASSIVE cost monkey off the backs of American employers. We streamline the delivery/billing process. We no longer have Americans paying higher premiums and fees to make up for those who don't and get "free" care.

When we're younger and healthier, the plan would cover less and ladder up over time. The Supplements and MA plans would take care of the rest.

It's right there, waiting for us, but we have our heads too far up our ass to see it.
.

Are you aware that the people on Medicare paid into the system for 20-30 years before they ever drew a nickels worth of care?

And a lot of other people paid in for decades and now don't qualify to get Medicare.

Explain please!

 

[g5000]

UHC is coming. Trump loves UHC. Trump wants UHC.

The GOP sold us down the river to UHC decades ago. All their whining and tearing of their clothes over UHC is theater for the rubes. The GOP knows the rubes are too stupid to ever catch on. They count on the rubes being willfully stupid and blind.

UHC is coming and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[g5000]

Universal health care if applied now would be the anchor that drags the US economy into a never ending downward spiral. Prior to Obamacare, the health care system was basically working but too expensive. After Obamacare, the health care system is working less well (more complicated longer wait times etc) and is considerably more expensive. It is clear that the "Affordable Care Act" had nothing to do with making health care affordable and was instead a massive expansion of healthcare to the poor and elderly who incidentally are the greatest consumers of health services.

We need to address COSTS, drug costs, treatment costs, billing simplification, new more efficient health centers, as well as meaningful tort reform and penalties for frivolous malpractice law suits. Lawyers and their class action lawsuits have become fabulously wealthy suing drug and equipment manufacturers and as a result contributed to the rising costs.

Meh...you pay too much attention to the drum beaters.
The average American pays over $9,000+ a year in costs. Add in employer contributions...and you are over $12,000.
We are already paying $trillions.

Who is this "we" you people keep yammering about?

A big part of the problem here is people who want to look at the whole thing as some sort of collective. There's a large difference between me paying $2000 a year on my family's healthcare and my neighbor paying $10,000 a year on his, and each of us paying $6000 a year for that healthcare while still using the same amounts. It might come out to the same yearly total all together, but I assure you, that does not make it the same.

All too many people want to look at the grand totals of what's spent by individuals in the US on healthcare every year, and ONLY look at it as a total "we" are spending, which "we" could therefore lower OVERALL (assuming you actually believe that) by having the government just take money from all of us and then hand out the healthcare as needed. The obvious problem, to anyone with sense, is that a lot of people end up paying far more that way than they would if they just paid for themselves, in order to lower costs for people who consume far more.

That $2000 a year I cited up above for my family's healthcare? That actually is how much my family paid last year for healthcare services, not including premiums. We had a catastrophic insurance plan, which did not once kick in and pay for a damned thing because the deductible wasn't met, and an HSA which we use to cover everything the insurance doesn't cover. The only reason we spent even that much was because my youngest son hurt his neck and needed an MRI.

So when you talk about "the average American spends . . ." and want the government to base what they take from those "average Americans" on that number, what you're basically saying to ME is, "Cecilie, I want you to pay $7000 a year more than you do now, for absolutely no increased benefit to YOUR family whatsoever, so that I can get healthcare on your dime."

And my answer is, "Piss off."

For the vast majority of people and businesses, UHC will mean much less out of their pockets every time they receive medical care.

Much, much less.

Will taxes go up? Yep.

The costs of healthcare will be more evenly distributed.

Will the rate of increase of health care costs slow down? Probably. Almost certainly.

Will the total cost of health care go down? Possibly.

 

[WillowTree]

Flat tax on absolutely everyone no matter their income.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What fix is there?

We expand the current Medicare - Medicare Advantage - Medicare Supplement system to all. An excellent, already-functioning blend of public money and free market competition and innovation.

The Supplements and MA plans are optional, and people can just buy up. We'd catch and fix problems much earlier, before they become larger and more costly problems. We take a MASSIVE cost monkey off the backs of American employers. We streamline the delivery/billing process. We no longer have Americans paying higher premiums and fees to make up for those who don't and get "free" care.

When we're younger and healthier, the plan would cover less and ladder up over time. The Supplements and MA plans would take care of the rest.

It's right there, waiting for us, but we have our heads too far up our ass to see it.
.

Are you aware that the people on Medicare paid into the system for 20-30 years before they ever drew a nickels worth of care?

And, those paying into Medicare are compelled by force of government, given no other choice?

Uh, yeah. How did you think Medicare worked? Seriously, you didn't know that taxes are taken out of everyone's paycheck ALWAYS to go to Medicare?

 

[dblack]

Universal health care if applied now would be the anchor that drags the US economy into a never ending downward spiral. Prior to Obamacare, the health care system was basically working but too expensive. After Obamacare, the health care system is working less well (more complicated longer wait times etc) and is considerably more expensive. It is clear that the "Affordable Care Act" had nothing to do with making health care affordable and was instead a massive expansion of healthcare to the poor and elderly who incidentally are the greatest consumers of health services.

We need to address COSTS, drug costs, treatment costs, billing simplification, new more efficient health centers, as well as meaningful tort reform and penalties for frivolous malpractice law suits. Lawyers and their class action lawsuits have become fabulously wealthy suing drug and equipment manufacturers and as a result contributed to the rising costs.

Meh...you pay too much attention to the drum beaters.
The average American pays over $9,000+ a year in costs. Add in employer contributions...and you are over $12,000.
We are already paying $trillions.

Who is this "we" you people keep yammering about?

A big part of the problem here is people who want to look at the whole thing as some sort of collective. There's a large difference between me paying $2000 a year on my family's healthcare and my neighbor paying $10,000 a year on his, and each of us paying $6000 a year for that healthcare while still using the same amounts. It might come out to the same yearly total all together, but I assure you, that does not make it the same.

All too many people want to look at the grand totals of what's spent by individuals in the US on healthcare every year, and ONLY look at it as a total "we" are spending, which "we" could therefore lower OVERALL (assuming you actually believe that) by having the government just take money from all of us and then hand out the healthcare as needed. The obvious problem, to anyone with sense, is that a lot of people end up paying far more that way than they would if they just paid for themselves, in order to lower costs for people who consume far more.

That $2000 a year I cited up above for my family's healthcare? That actually is how much my family paid last year for healthcare services, not including premiums. We had a catastrophic insurance plan, which did not once kick in and pay for a damned thing because the deductible wasn't met, and an HSA which we use to cover everything the insurance doesn't cover. The only reason we spent even that much was because my youngest son hurt his neck and needed an MRI.

So when you talk about "the average American spends . . ." and want the government to base what they take from those "average Americans" on that number, what you're basically saying to ME is, "Cecilie, I want you to pay $7000 a year more than you do now, for absolutely no increased benefit to YOUR family whatsoever, so that I can get healthcare on your dime."

And my answer is, "Piss off."

For the vast majority of people and businesses, UHC will mean much less out of their pockets every time they receive medical care.

Much, much less.

Will taxes go up? Yep.

The costs of healthcare will be more evenly distributed.

Will the rate of increase of health care costs slow down? Probably. Almost certainly.

Will the total cost of health care go down? Possibly.

And we'll be left with a perpetual political football. As long as we're mired in the idiotic thrashing of the two-party system, there is no way I want government controlling my health care.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Universal health care if applied now would be the anchor that drags the US economy into a never ending downward spiral. Prior to Obamacare, the health care system was basically working but too expensive. After Obamacare, the health care system is working less well (more complicated longer wait times etc) and is considerably more expensive. It is clear that the "Affordable Care Act" had nothing to do with making health care affordable and was instead a massive expansion of healthcare to the poor and elderly who incidentally are the greatest consumers of health services.

We need to address COSTS, drug costs, treatment costs, billing simplification, new more efficient health centers, as well as meaningful tort reform and penalties for frivolous malpractice law suits. Lawyers and their class action lawsuits have become fabulously wealthy suing drug and equipment manufacturers and as a result contributed to the rising costs.

Actually Obamacare took 960 billion dollars from senior care.

WRONG, is this something you heard from Hannity or Limbaugh?

Here are the facts:

Think Changes to Obamacare Won't Affect You? Think Again

You may think a repeal of Obamacare would apply only to the roughly 22 million Americans who have gained coverage under the law. But changes to the law formally known as the Affordable Care Act would also affect current and future Medicare beneficiaries—that is, pretty much all Americans.

After a rush to begin dismantling Obamacare when he first took office, President Donald Trump appears to have pushed the pause button. He said in an interview with Fox News over the weekend that it might take until next year for replacement legislation to be ready.*** Some lawmakers have recently shifted their rhetoric from repealing Obamacare to “repairing” it, suggesting less of an overhaul than previously envisioned.

***Trump said this in Feb 2017. Where is the Republican replacement he promised?

link: Think Changes to Obamacare Won't Affect You? Think Again

From the link above:

Since 2011, Medicare beneficiaries have received free preventive screenings such as mammograms and colonoscopies. The law also implemented an annual free wellness visit. These changes mirror those the law made to the insurance market for people under age 65: Both group and individual plans must now cover annual preventive checkups and other screenings at no cost to patients. (Read about how the Affordable Care Act affects employer-sponsored health coverage.)

Before Obamacare, most Medicare beneficiaries paid a co-payment for preventive services, and, depending on their coverage, possibly a percentage of the overall doctor’s bill. While this might not seem like a big outlay, half of all Medicare beneficiaries had incomes below $24,150 per person in 2014, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, so every little savings helps.

Now, apologize for posting false news WT.

I posted the truth!

You mean the truth as you vision it in your head. You know nothing about Medicare and social security except you are probably drawing ss and reaping the benefits of Medicare.

Really? What, precisely, has Willow said about Medicare that was incorrect?

 

[Hum Dinger]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

Socialized healthcare was first implemented in Germany by Bismark at the end of the 19th century. Since then there's been dozens of countries that have successfully implemented socialized healthcare. It's not a question of if or even how it can be done. We have lot's of examples to go by.

What we have is one group of people that are making a fortune because of the extreme over pricing of American healthcare, and another group of mindless people who are fanatically against socialized healthcare just because they view it as a 'socialist' or 'liberal'.

The percentage of people who can work but will not is tiny. It is grossly exaggerated. We by far have always had more of a problem because people want to work and can not find a job, or people who do work and are so grossly underpaid that they still have to rely on government support.

As far as a healthcare tax, we only have to look at the dozen or so other countries and see how they do it. I doubt that the wealthy Swiss are crying over their healthcare tax.

 

[Hum Dinger]

20+ trillion in debt. 150+ trillion unfunded liabilities.

I think it's time to stop demanding free shit.

Like Social Security, if we pay for it in taxes, then it's not free.

 

[Hum Dinger]

It is way past time for Universal Health Care. Why are we the only developed country without Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage cheap College and training good vacations Fair taxes on the rich national ID card to stop illegal immigration Etc etc etc? Scumbag GOP and silly dupes Like Norman...

TN has free college and tech school and they didnt raise taxes for it. Can you believe that? No ******* taxes. TN is mostly republicans.
Might want to rethink your tired cliches.

So how are they paying for it? Debt?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[g5000]

Universal health care if applied now would be the anchor that drags the US economy into a never ending downward spiral. Prior to Obamacare, the health care system was basically working but too expensive. After Obamacare, the health care system is working less well (more complicated longer wait times etc) and is considerably more expensive. It is clear that the "Affordable Care Act" had nothing to do with making health care affordable and was instead a massive expansion of healthcare to the poor and elderly who incidentally are the greatest consumers of health services.

We need to address COSTS, drug costs, treatment costs, billing simplification, new more efficient health centers, as well as meaningful tort reform and penalties for frivolous malpractice law suits. Lawyers and their class action lawsuits have become fabulously wealthy suing drug and equipment manufacturers and as a result contributed to the rising costs.

Meh...you pay too much attention to the drum beaters.
The average American pays over $9,000+ a year in costs. Add in employer contributions...and you are over $12,000.
We are already paying $trillions.

Who is this "we" you people keep yammering about?

A big part of the problem here is people who want to look at the whole thing as some sort of collective. There's a large difference between me paying $2000 a year on my family's healthcare and my neighbor paying $10,000 a year on his, and each of us paying $6000 a year for that healthcare while still using the same amounts. It might come out to the same yearly total all together, but I assure you, that does not make it the same.

All too many people want to look at the grand totals of what's spent by individuals in the US on healthcare every year, and ONLY look at it as a total "we" are spending, which "we" could therefore lower OVERALL (assuming you actually believe that) by having the government just take money from all of us and then hand out the healthcare as needed. The obvious problem, to anyone with sense, is that a lot of people end up paying far more that way than they would if they just paid for themselves, in order to lower costs for people who consume far more.

That $2000 a year I cited up above for my family's healthcare? That actually is how much my family paid last year for healthcare services, not including premiums. We had a catastrophic insurance plan, which did not once kick in and pay for a damned thing because the deductible wasn't met, and an HSA which we use to cover everything the insurance doesn't cover. The only reason we spent even that much was because my youngest son hurt his neck and needed an MRI.

So when you talk about "the average American spends . . ." and want the government to base what they take from those "average Americans" on that number, what you're basically saying to ME is, "Cecilie, I want you to pay $7000 a year more than you do now, for absolutely no increased benefit to YOUR family whatsoever, so that I can get healthcare on your dime."

And my answer is, "Piss off."

For the vast majority of people and businesses, UHC will mean much less out of their pockets every time they receive medical care.

Much, much less.

Will taxes go up? Yep.

The costs of healthcare will be more evenly distributed.

Will the rate of increase of health care costs slow down? Probably. Almost certainly.

Will the total cost of health care go down? Possibly.

And we'll be left with a perpetual political football. As long as we're mired in the idiotic thrashing of the two-party system, there is no way I want government controlling my health care.

Nor do I, but that is where things are going whether we like it or not.

 

[TNHarley]

It is way past time for Universal Health Care. Why are we the only developed country without Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage cheap College and training good vacations Fair taxes on the rich national ID card to stop illegal immigration Etc etc etc? Scumbag GOP and silly dupes Like Norman...

TN has free college and tech school and they didnt raise taxes for it. Can you believe that? No ******* taxes. TN is mostly republicans.
Might want to rethink your tired cliches.

So how are they paying for it? Debt?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Lottery
Free college and not forcing anyone to pay for it. Imagine that!

 

[g5000]

It is way past time for Universal Health Care. Why are we the only developed country without Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage cheap College and training good vacations Fair taxes on the rich national ID card to stop illegal immigration Etc etc etc? Scumbag GOP and silly dupes Like Norman...

TN has free college and tech school and they didnt raise taxes for it. Can you believe that? No ******* taxes. TN is mostly republicans.
Might want to rethink your tired cliches.

So how are they paying for it? Debt?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Gambling. The lottery. You know, the Christian way.

 

[dblack]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

Socialized healthcare was first implemented in Germany by Bismark at the end of the 19th century. Since then there's been dozens of countries that have successfully implemented socialized healthcare. It's not a question of if or even how it can be done. We have lot's of examples to go by.

What we have is one group of people that are making a fortune because of the extreme over pricing of American healthcare, and another group of mindless people who are fanatically against socialized healthcare just because they view it as a 'socialist' or 'liberal'.

The percentage of people who can work but will not is tiny. It is grossly exaggerated. We by far have always had more of a problem because people want to work and can not find a job, or people who do work and are so grossly underpaid that they still have to rely on government support.

As far as a healthcare tax, we only have to look at the dozen or so other countries and see how they do it. I doubt that the wealthy Swiss are crying over their healthcare tax.

This simple fact is, we're not like other countries. The reason we can't have universal health care, the reason we don't want important social functions co-opted by government in general, is because we have a very diverse culture. We simply don't have the consensus necessary to successfully nationalize things like health care. Some people think of this as a "bug". I see it as a feature.

 

[TNHarley]

It is way past time for Universal Health Care. Why are we the only developed country without Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage cheap College and training good vacations Fair taxes on the rich national ID card to stop illegal immigration Etc etc etc? Scumbag GOP and silly dupes Like Norman...

TN has free college and tech school and they didnt raise taxes for it. Can you believe that? No ******* taxes. TN is mostly republicans.
Might want to rethink your tired cliches.

So how are they paying for it? Debt?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Gambling. The lottery. You know, the Christian way.

You just have to ***** all the ******* time, doncha?
You are one smug, unhappy man..
I got a number if you want help.

 

[Hum Dinger]

In another thread, a poster brought up the Singapore system. It seemed very well thought out. I'm a republican too, but our health care is a disaster. Honestly, I think our political system is too fractured to come up with a government solution. I'm almost always against big universal plans, but I'll admit they are not impossible. The problem is you need to be unified to come up with something halfway intelligent like the Singapore system, and we are definitely not that.

Whenever American propose socialized healthcare, we act like we're the first country in the world to do it. We come up with zany ideas on how to do it.

There's plenty of countries we could study and find out what works and what doesn't. We could create a great healthcare system based on those models, but instead we just play this stupid game.

 

[WillowTree]

In another thread, a poster brought up the Singapore system. It seemed very well thought out. I'm a republican too, but our health care is a disaster. Honestly, I think our political system is too fractured to come up with a government solution. I'm almost always against big universal plans, but I'll admit they are not impossible. The problem is you need to be unified to come up with something halfway intelligent like the Singapore system, and we are definitely not that.

Whenever American propose socialized healthcare, we act like we're the first country in the world to do it. We come up with zany ideas on how to do it.

There's plenty of countries we could study and find out what works and what doesn't. We could create a great healthcare system based on those models, but instead we just play this stupid game.

As soon as we become a country with secure borders and 100% of real US citizens paying federal income tax let us know! As long as you morons insist on importing millions of poor people I will be a no vote!

 

[Hum Dinger]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

Socialized healthcare was first implemented in Germany by Bismark at the end of the 19th century. Since then there's been dozens of countries that have successfully implemented socialized healthcare. It's not a question of if or even how it can be done. We have lot's of examples to go by.

What we have is one group of people that are making a fortune because of the extreme over pricing of American healthcare, and another group of mindless people who are fanatically against socialized healthcare just because they view it as a 'socialist' or 'liberal'.

The percentage of people who can work but will not is tiny. It is grossly exaggerated. We by far have always had more of a problem because people want to work and can not find a job, or people who do work and are so grossly underpaid that they still have to rely on government support.

As far as a healthcare tax, we only have to look at the dozen or so other countries and see how they do it. I doubt that the wealthy Swiss are crying over their healthcare tax.

This simple fact is, we're not like other countries. The reason we can't have universal health care, the reason we don't want important social functions co-opted by government in general, is because we have a very diverse culture. We simply don't have the consensus necessary to successfully nationalize things like health care. Some people think of this as a "bug". I see it as a feature.

It seems that what your saying is that Americans have no compassion for their fellow American because we are so diverse. I know some ridiculously wealthy Swiss people who are fanatically patriotic. However, unlike Americans, their idea of patriotism is caring for their fellow Swiss citizens.

I'd rather have the government manage healthcare, then have it controlled by pure greed as it is now.

 

[WillowTree]

All Swiss pay federal taxes. All of them!

 

[Hum Dinger]

It is way past time for Universal Health Care. Why are we the only developed country without Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage cheap College and training good vacations Fair taxes on the rich national ID card to stop illegal immigration Etc etc etc? Scumbag GOP and silly dupes Like Norman...

TN has free college and tech school and they didnt raise taxes for it. Can you believe that? No ******* taxes. TN is mostly republicans.
Might want to rethink your tired cliches.

So how are they paying for it? Debt?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Lottery
Free college and not forcing anyone to pay for it. Imagine that!

So what's the big difference between running a lottery and imposing a tax?

Taxation is being honest and upfront, the lottery is taking advantage of stupid people.

If you don't think so, then I'll give you 20 chances to guess my phone number. Don't think that you'll succeed.

You have a one in 10,000,000 chance of guessing my phone number. That's alot more probable than winning the lottery.