Zone1 Is it the "New Covenant"? "Old Covenant"? Or,.... The "Renewed Covenant"?

[ding]

Like I said, it is not the words that are irrational it is the ignorant superstitious archaic lore completely divorced from reality

You are just digging your hole deeper.

 

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The talking serpent represents the Pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head.

No, it doesn't. Scholars widely believe the serpent in the Adam and Eve story (Genesis 3) draws from older Sumerian and Mesopotamian myths, particularly figures like the god Ea (sometimes called a serpent) and Ningishzida (Lord of the Good Tree), who were associated with wisdom, trees, and immortality, mirroring the serpent's role in tempting humans away from eternal life in the biblical narrative, much like the Epic of Gilgamesh features a serpent stealing the plant of youth.

 

[ding]

It was written by Moses

No, it wasn't. The first eleven chapters were passed down orally for at least a thousand years or so - probably much more - before the time of Moses. The account of Abraham was passed down orally for at least 400 years or so before the time of Moses. Unless of course you believe Israelites were hearing about Abraham for the first time at the time of Exodus.

The serpent had nothing to do with any Egyptian Pharaoh.

 

[ding]

Like I said, it is not the words that are irrational it is the ignorant superstitious archaic lore completely divorced from reality, YOUR BELIEFS, that have absolutely no value at all except to the talking serpent that beguiled you. For cash.

The talking serpent represents the Pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head. It was written by Moses to teach Hebrew children about the dangers of losing your mind for life to a con artist, a cult leader, expert in the magical arts, sorcery, what is now well known as mind control. Here is the timeless wisdom of incalculable value. Even so it didn't stop you from being beguiled by a direct descendant of that ever elusive talking serpent of old because you have been diverted into hell by superstitious archaic lore and lost your soul, your sanity.

What you fail to understand is that the early accounts are from Sumerian times when polytheism was the dominant religion of the land. The beliefs expressed in Genesis about a creator God that is moralistic and providential but did not control the affairs of men were a radical departure from polytheistic beliefs.

Google is your friend.

Biblical accounts, particularly those in Genesis, share notable similarities with older myths from other ancient Near Eastern cultures, leading many scholars to conclude they were adapted, rather than "stolen," to express Israelite monotheistic beliefs. The biblical authors reworked common literary motifs to convey their unique theological message.

Key examples of these parallels include:

• The Flood Narrative: The story of Noah and the Ark shares significant plot details with the flood account in the much older Epic of Gilgamesh and the even earlier Atrahasis Epicfrom Mesopotamia.
  • Similarities: In both, a divine figure or council of gods decides to send a great flood to destroy humanity; a chosen man (Noah/Utnapishtim) is warned and instructed to build a large boat; animals are brought on board to preserve life; birds are sent out after the flood to check for dry land; the vessel lands on a mountain; and sacrifices are offered afterward.
  • Differences: The biblical account features one all-powerful God acting for moral reasons (human wickedness), while the Mesopotamian versions involve a pantheon of squabbling gods who are annoyed by human noise or simply choose to wipe them out, with one god breaking ranks to save his favorite human.
• Creation Accounts: The Genesis 1 creation story has parallels with the Babylonian creation myth, the Enuma Elish.
  • Similarities: Both describe a primeval watery chaos before creation, the separation of waters by a firmament (sky), the creation of light before the sun and moon, and a similar sequence of events leading to a period of divine rest. The Hebrew word for the "deep" (tehom) in Genesis is linguistically related to the name of the chaos goddess Tiamat in the Enuma Elish.
  • Differences: Genesis is strictly monotheistic and portrays a sovereign, peaceful creation by divine command ("God said, 'Let there be...'"), while the Enuma Elish is polytheistic and involves a violent cosmic battle between the gods. Humans in Genesis are created in God's image and given dominion, while in the Enuma Elish, humans are created from the blood of a slain god to serve as the gods' slaves.

In essence, the ancient Israelites were part of the wider ancient Near Eastern culture and "breathed the same air". Their scribes used existing cultural and literary forms to present a revolutionary new idea: the existence of a single, all-powerful, and just God who created the world and humanity with purpose. The shared motifs help place the biblical texts within their historical context, but the theological emphasis remains uniquely Israelite.

 

[BreezeWood]

The atheist nations USSR Red China and Cambodia slaughtered over 100 million people. Atheists and communists go well together and seem to love left wing ideology

they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

 

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they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

Victims of the Soviet purges were significantly targeted because of their religion, as the atheist Soviet state actively persecuted believers of all faiths (Orthodox Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, etc.) through arrests, imprisonments, deportations, and executions, officially framing it as combating "counter-revolutionary" resistance or "bourgeois ideology" rather than religious belief itself. While purges also targeted political opponents and social classes (like "kulaks"), religious individuals faced severe repression for practicing their faith or promoting it, often receiving harsher sentences for religious crimes than for common offenses.
Reasons for Religious Persecution:

• State Atheism: Communism viewed religion as an obstacle to building a new society, seeing it as a tool of oppression and bourgeois ideology.
• "Counter-Revolutionary" Activity: Believers were often accused of anti-state activities, even if their only "crime" was organizing religious classes, possessing religious texts, or refusing to conform.
• "Foreign" Ties: Religious institutions, especially the Orthodox Church and Catholicism, were seen as potentially disloyal or connected to foreign powers, leading to persecution of clergy and hierarchies.

Methods of Persecution:

• Executions & Imprisonment: Thousands of priests, rabbis, imams, and believers were tortured, executed, or sent to Gulag labor camps.
• Deportations: Groups like Jehovah's Witnesses were deported en masse (e.g., Operation North in 1951).
• Church Closures: Churches, synagogues, and mosques were confiscated, turned into "museums of atheism," or left to decay.
• Propaganda & Education: The state promoted militant atheism and ridiculed religion through education and media.

Targeted Groups:

• Russian Orthodox: Clergy and believers were severely persecuted, though some control was later exerted through state-managed church bodies.
• Catholics: Particularly in the Baltics and Ukraine, bishops and priests were arrested, and Catholic institutions were suppressed.
• Jews: Faced religious persecution, pogroms, and antisemitic policies, alongside general repression.
• Protestants: Baptists, Pentecostals, and other evangelical groups faced intense pressure, especially in the 1940s-60s, for their independent, unregistered activities.

In essence, while political and class-based purges were central, religious identity and practice were a primary, officially sanctioned reason for targeting and punishing millions of Soviet citizens.

 

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they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

Victims of purges in Communist China were selected because of their religion, as part of the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) official promotion of state atheism. Antireligious campaigns have been a continuous policy since the Communist Revolution in 1949, targeting various faith communities.
The persecution of religious groups was, and remains, a core aspect of the CCP's efforts to eliminate any perceived threats to its authority and enforce ideological homogeneity.
Specific examples of religious persecution during purges and campaigns include:

• The Cultural Revolution (1966-1976): Religion was a primary target in Mao Zedong's campaign to eliminate the "Four Olds" (old ideas, customs, culture, and habits). All religious activities were banned, places of worship (temples, churches, mosques, shrines) were destroyed or confiscated, and religious personnel were persecuted, imprisoned, or killed.
• Early PRC (1950s): The government launched campaigns against religion, denouncing faiths as "foreign cultural imperialism," "feudalism," and "superstition". Foreign missionaries were expelled, and local religious leaders were arrested, imprisoned, or sent to labor camps.
• Falun Gong: In 1999, the CCP launched a severe, ongoing campaign to eradicate the spiritual movement Falun Gong, labeling it an "evil cult". Hundreds of thousands of practitioners have been arbitrarily detained, imprisoned, tortured, subjected to forced labor, and reportedly victims of forced organ harvesting.
• Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities: In recent years, the CCP has targeted Uyghur, Kazakh, and Hui Muslims for their religious and ethnic identity. Hundreds of thousands have been detained in "re-education" internment camps, where they are subjected to political indoctrination and forced to renounce their religious beliefs.
• Christian groups: Both state-sanctioned and underground Christian groups have faced significant persecution. Authorities have demolished churches, removed crosses, and arrested pastors and parishioners who refuse to adhere to state control and the "Sinicization" of religion (forcing religious practices to conform to CCP ideology).
• Tibetan Buddhists: Monasteries and sacred sites have been destroyed, monks and nuns persecuted, and the practice of their religion severely restricted as the CCP seeks to control Tibetan cultural and religious life.

The CCP views adherence to any authority higher than the Party, including a divine one, as a direct threat to its absolute control, thus making religious belief a key factor in the selection of purge victims.

 

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they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

Victims of the communist Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia were specifically selected for purges because of their religion, among other factors such as their ethnicity or perceived intellectual status. The regime sought to create an entirely agrarian, classless society and viewed religion as a foreign and counter-revolutionary influence that needed to be eradicated.
Specific religious groups targeted for persecution and extermination included:

• Buddhists: The dominant religion in Cambodia, Buddhism was systematically repressed. Monks were disrobed, forced into labor, or killed, and monasteries and temples were destroyed or converted into storage facilities or prisons. An estimated 90 to 95 percent of monks were eliminated.
• Muslim Chams: This ethnic minority group was heavily persecuted, with estimates suggesting as many as 70% of the total Cham population was killed. The Khmer Rouge attempted to destroy their cultural and religious identity by forcing them to eat pork, banning their language, and destroying mosques. The targeting of the Cham population was explicitly recognized as an act of genocide by a UN-backed tribunal.
• Christians: The Christian population, which was small and often associated with Western "capitalist" influences or French colonialism, was almost entirely wiped out. The Phnom Penh cathedral was razed to the ground.

The intent to destroy these groups in whole or in part because of their religious identity forms a key part of the genocide charges against former Khmer Rouge leaders. The regime targeted anyone considered an "enemy of the regime" or "impure" to achieve its utopian vision of "year zero".

 

[ding]

they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

Victims of purges in communist Albania were often selected due to their religious affiliations, as the regime enforced radical state atheism, viewing religion as a threat to its power and seeking to eliminate its influence by targeting clergy and believers of all faiths (Muslim, Orthodox, Catholic) for persecution, imprisonment, and execution.

Why Religion Was Targeted:

• Ideological Threat: Marxist-Leninist ideology viewed religion as superstitious and an obstacle to building a communist society.
• Control: The regime sought to replace loyalty to God with loyalty to the Party, seeing religious institutions as alternative power structures.
• State Atheism: Albania became the world's first constitutional atheist state in 1976, officially banning religion.

Methods of Persecution:

• Suppression of Clergy: Priests, imams, and other religious figures were imprisoned, exiled, or killed.
• Closure/Conversion of Religious Sites: Mosques, churches, and synagogues were closed, confiscated, or turned into warehouses, cinemas, or cultural centers.
• Banning Religious Practice: Public religious ceremonies, like Friday prayers, were banned, and possession of religious texts became forbidden.
• Propaganda: Children were taught atheism, and religious symbols were removed.

Who Was Targeted:

• Clergy & Religious Leaders: Priests, imams, and monks were primary targets.
• Believers: Individuals practicing their faith, even in secret, faced persecution.
• "Potential" Opponents: Anyone perceived as disloyal or holding traditional values tied to religion was at risk.

In essence, religious identity was a significant factor, alongside political opposition, in identifying victims for elimination by the totalitarian communist regime under Enver Hoxha.

 

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they fought their antagonist in many cases religious zealots in alliance with despotic autocrats much the same as presently throughout the middle east who persecute and victimize the innocent in many cases atheists.

there has never been a despotic period throughout history that has not been lead by one or the other desert religion.

Victims of the communist purge in Cuba were selected, in part, because of their religious beliefs, as the Castro regime was an atheist state that viewed religion as incompatible with its Marxist philosophy.

• Ideological Conflict: The communist government engaged in an "open ideological confrontation" with the Catholic Church and other religious groups, viewing them as counterrevolutionary and incompatible with the state's philosophy.
• Active Persecution: The government actively persecuted individuals who professed their faith. Religious people were banned from joining the Cuban Communist Party and were systematically discriminated against in terms of jobs and educational opportunities.
• Forced Labor Camps: From 1965-1967, many priests, pastors, and other religious individuals were forced into labor camps called Military Units to Aid Production (UMAP), alongside other groups deemed "social scum".
• Exile and Suppression: The regime confiscated church-owned schools, seized properties, and deported 131 priests, brothers, and a bishop in 1961. Religious processions were banned, and the government used various methods, including smear campaigns, arrests, and property confiscation, to suppress religious expression.
• Martyrs: Some individuals, such as Alberto Tapia Ruano and Virgilio Campanería, were executed and reportedly shouted "Viva Cristo Rey" (Long live Christ the King) before their deaths, highlighting the intersection of their faith and their opposition to the regime.
• Ongoing Harassment: Even in recent years, the Cuban government has continued to harass and monitor religious leaders and groups who refuse to abide by strict regulations or who criticize the government, sometimes forcing them into exile.

The persecution was a deliberate attempt to impose state atheism and eliminate an alternative source of morality and influence outside the authority of the state.

 

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I think I see a pattern here.

 

[GLASNOST]

People who hijack an original concept and revise the basis of it are cult figures. The fundamental Jewish definition of the Messiah proves that Jesus couldn't possibly be "the one".

You must include in your thinking that at the time of Jesus Jewish messianic expectations were about as irrational as Christian expectations are now for the second coming of Christ.

The expectation? Maybe. But the Christians have doubled-down on Jewish irrationality so I wouldn't say practicing Jews were "about as irrrational" as Christians are today.

There never will come a time when any man will fulfill any of that superstitious archaic lore.

I'm pretty sure of that. My point is that I don't care if people are in love with the automobile just as long as they don't claim it was Henry Ford who invented it.

 

[ding]

The expectation? Maybe. But the Christians have doubled-down on Jewish irrationality so I wouldn't say practicing Jews were "about as irrrational" as Christians are today.

Or maybe what they saw and heard they couldn't deny. Maybe blame Jesus for that?

I've looked at it from every angle. There are only two options. Either Jesus is who he says or it was a conspiracy of epic proportions. There's quite a bit of evidence for the divinity of Christ. I can't find any evidence for a conspiracy.

What is it that you find irrational about today's Christians? Are they doing something different than Christians in the past? Or have you always believed Christians were irrational? And if so, why?

 

[hobelim]

You are just digging your hole deeper.

Judging by your hysterical responses that followed this silliness it seems that you are coming undone. Was it something that I said?

But don’t worry, dingbot, I have uploaded directly into your brain an anti-malware program. So don’t be upset as the worm of conscience does its thing. Don’t be such a crybaby.

You cannot escape the hand of my God in this world or the next. That’s a fact.

The more you fight accepting Logos, Divine reasoning, the truth, the more YOU will descend into the abyss.

 

[hobelim]

The expectation? Maybe. But the Christians have doubled-down on Jewish irrationality so I wouldn't say practicing Jews were "about as irrrational" as Christians are today.

You may be right. But the truth is Jewish beliefs just like Christian beliefs are all over the place. Some closer to the truth than others, some more rational than others.

I personally know practicing Jews, who are just as irrational as many Christians are concerning the Messiah and what they expect he will do when he comes.

I'm pretty sure of

Without adding subtracting or changing a single word concerning what is written about what the Messiah is supposed to do when he comes there is a deeper hidden meaning to each prediction, and consequently a rational way to show how Jesus did in fact fulfill the role and purpose of the Messiah. But only for those who listened to his teaching and acted on it.

My point is that I don't care if people are in love with the automobile just as long as they don't claim it was Henry Ford who invented it.

although you probably realize that most religions have borrowed liberally from other religions. Even the story of Noah was taken from an older story. Still because of the moral teaching, and hidden meaning of the words, the story of Noah is quite original.

And Christianity today resembles more closely Mithraism than anything Jesus would’ve believed. And early Christianity more closely resembles modern reform Judaism than anything that Christians believe and practice today.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see that it’s all screwed up.

Who knows? maybe Jesus will show up and straighten things out

 

[GLASNOST]

Judging by your hysterical responses that followed this silliness it seems that you are coming undone.

Indeed.

Was it something that I said?

I think that's fair to say, yes.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... the truth is Jewish beliefs just like Christian beliefs are all over the place.

I am a typically sympathetic Agnostic and I understand that when someone is drowning they don’t first evaluate the character of the person who offers them a life saver before accepting it. I do, however, despise those who offer a faulty one. So, in my opinion:

Judaism = a swell-meaning life saver

Christianity = a faulty one

 

[SaxonJackson]

Jesus Christ signed a New Covenant with His very blood. A better, faultless Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13, "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

The Old Covenant put the burden on humans to keep the law perfectly. That was and is impossible since humans are horribly flawed and wholly incapable of "keeping the law." The New Covenant removes a heavy burden from mankind in that Christ's blood pays for our sins and iniquities. Through faith in Christ and repentance of our sins, we are forgiven and saved.

 

[GLASNOST]

Jesus Christ signed a New Covenant .

Not possible. The Covenant is between God and Man, not with any of the thousands of prophets. This is obvious.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Not possible. The Covenant is between God and Man, not with any of the thousands of prophets. This is obvious.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament. God promised that He would make a New Covenant with man.

Jeremiah 31:31, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

It's within God's power to change the conditions of His covenants.