Is it right to blame JD Vance for Orban's loss?

[forkup]

yes and that makes sense but the cure is not to invite other people into the country but
for people to start having more children
why are they not is the question

Japan is doing the same exact thing, they have a negative birth/death but they are strict, they don't want black, brown, arabs white even, they want to stay Japanese and I respect that, keep the culture you have pure

these small counties are NOT a melting pot like the USA which is 100x larger or so

importing people is not the answer, your own population has to do it

maybe they need some incentive to have more sex and not use birth control

that is the main question here

Orban tried that. Doesn't really work.

As to why white people don't reproduce.

Simple. White woman don't stay around the fireplace anymore. They want careers and they want equal rights. Not to mention that a single income doesn't give you the standard of living most people prefer.

You don't solve that with incentives. In fact, I don't think you solve that at all without immigration.

 

[frigidweirdo]

yes, you give me a lesson on the birthrate of the EU which I already know
but go for it

So, Orban is anti-immigration. The only way to be viably anti-immigration is to be "pro-large families".

So Orban spent LOADS OF MONEY on making sure white Hungarians were pumping them out faster than a Catholic can say "condominium".

Viktor Orbán's Hungary: The Erosion of Reproductive Rights - Population Matters

Explore Viktor Orbán's policies, global alliances and their impact on reproductive rights for the population in Hungary.

populationmatters.org

"Hungary, under Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, has become a global symbol of the pronatalist movement."

"Orbán’s government has sought to tackle this with pronatalist policies like tax exemptions for women with four or more children and other family-oriented incentives, allocating 6% of GDP to these efforts."

Hungary birth rate falls to record monthly low despite €30,000 offer to 3-child families | Fortune

Hungary registered a meager 6,000 births in June, even as it offers steep financial incentives to new parents.

fortune.com

"Hungary offered €30,000 to couples having 3 kids"

6% of GDP on getting Hungarians to have more kids.

Orban's been in 16 years, since 2010.

Hungary Birth Rate | Historical Data | Chart | 1950-2025

Hungary Birth Rate: Historical data from 1950 to 2025.

www.macrotrends.net

In 2010 the birth rate was 9.0
Now in 2026 it's 9.2

It did get up to 9.8, probably because people thought having kids during the covid period was a good use of their time and a good way to make money.

But recently that rate has been going down.

Total fertility rate Europe by country 2024| Statista

In 2024, Monaco was the European country estimated to have the highest fertility rate.

www.statista.com

Hungary is way down the list of countries for birth rate. It's slightly above the EU average, but below quite a few other countries who aren't actually doing that much.

Now, the big issue here is "how do you keep birth rates at a sustainable level?"

Clearly what Orban was doing wasn't sustainable. People don't want to have more kids. They don't want to get money now and then in five years be told there's not enough money any more. Or they just don't want three kids. One is more than enough köszönöm.

Other countries are doing immigration because they know that immigrants can provide the workers a country needs to A) keep grow and B) keep pensions at an acceptable level.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/why-europe-cant-face-its-pension-black-hole-2025-10-16/

Most western countries are going to hit the fan in about 10 years time. Demographics have it where the number of people is much lower who will be under 65.

This is Germany. You can see the fall off in people who are 50-54 and younger. Well when they are 60-64, then you've got all those people from the age group above hitting retirement (more payouts for pensions) and those people who are in the lower group are earning money (less people paying for pensions).

The only thing that's stopped this happening sooner is IMMIGRATION.

Japan has a pretty similar demographic situation. But it has less younger people because of their lack of immigration.

The other problem is that immigrants come in and they don't have as many kids as you might hope. So the only real thing you can do is keep having people coming in and working, then they want to settle down then you need more immigrants.

The UK has a birth rate slightly higher than Hungary's. They do this with immigration. One in three kids are born to foreign mothers.

Children of migrants in the UK - Migration Observatory

This briefing looks at the children of migrants, including those born abroad and those born in the UK to foreign-born parents

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

"In 2024, more than one in three children born in England and Wales had a foreign-born mother, and this share has been rising."

But even the foreign born mothers are not at the replacement rate. They're at 2.0 and 2.1 is the replacement rate.

Women born in the UK (even if they're from an immigrant family) the rate is 1.5, well below the replacement rate.

So, without immigration you'd be looking at the UK population being reduced year on year as for every 4 people dying, you have three being born.

Within 10 years the economy will have totally stagnated, like Japan's has been for 30 years or so.

So, Hungary has been opposed to immigration, it's tried to get people to have more kids, it's failed, for the most part, increasing birth rates a little, but never above the replacement rate.

So what choices do people have?

1) Economic stagnation
2) Low pensions
3) Immigration

Now, a lot of politicians have decided (for their people, rather than discussing it with them because they know they won't like any of the choices) to go for number 3.

Hungary didn't, and Hungary has also failed, and spent a lot of money doing so.

Personally I think these countries need to perhaps look at stagnation as an acceptable avenue, I don't think Japan is in such a bad place. However this is not how RICH PEOPLE see things. They want to make money.

The US is run by rich people, hence why these rich people seem to want immigration, until they figure out it makes for scoring easy points with dumb MAGA type supporters.

So, understanding birth rates in Hungary is important to understanding why things are happening. You can talk about not wanting Muslims is, well, they can choose immigration as one way of dealing with things.

For a politician, 1 and 2 are basically suicide. People will NOT vote for them.

So, you're left with number 3.

 

[frigidweirdo]

yes and that makes sense but the cure is not to invite other people into the country but
for people to start having more children
why are they not is the question

Japan is doing the same exact thing, they have a negative birth/death but they are strict, they don't want black, brown, arabs white even, they want to stay Japanese and I respect that, keep the culture you have pure

these small counties are NOT a melting pot like the USA which is 100x larger or so

importing people is not the answer, your own population has to do it

maybe they need some incentive to have more sex and not use birth control

that is the main question here

How do you make people have more kids?

Orban spent 6% of GDP on it, and it didn't work well.

How much do you have to spend? And the more you spend, the less you have for PENSIONSSSSSSSS

 

[forkup]

So, Orban is anti-immigration. The only way to be viably anti-immigration is to be "pro-large families".

So Orban spent LOADS OF MONEY on making sure white Hungarians were pumping them out faster than a Catholic can say "condominium".

Viktor Orbán's Hungary: The Erosion of Reproductive Rights - Population Matters

Explore Viktor Orbán's policies, global alliances and their impact on reproductive rights for the population in Hungary.

populationmatters.org

"Hungary, under Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, has become a global symbol of the pronatalist movement."

"Orbán’s government has sought to tackle this with pronatalist policies like tax exemptions for women with four or more children and other family-oriented incentives, allocating 6% of GDP to these efforts."

Hungary birth rate falls to record monthly low despite €30,000 offer to 3-child families | Fortune

Hungary registered a meager 6,000 births in June, even as it offers steep financial incentives to new parents.

fortune.com

"Hungary offered €30,000 to couples having 3 kids"

6% of GDP on getting Hungarians to have more kids.

Orban's been in 16 years, since 2010.

Hungary Birth Rate | Historical Data | Chart | 1950-2025

Hungary Birth Rate: Historical data from 1950 to 2025.

www.macrotrends.net

In 2010 the birth rate was 9.0
Now in 2026 it's 9.2

It did get up to 9.8, probably because people thought having kids during the covid period was a good use of their time and a good way to make money.

But recently that rate has been going down.

Total fertility rate Europe by country 2024| Statista

In 2024, Monaco was the European country estimated to have the highest fertility rate.

www.statista.com

Hungary is way down the list of countries for birth rate. It's slightly above the EU average, but below quite a few other countries who aren't actually doing that much.

Now, the big issue here is "how do you keep birth rates at a sustainable level?"

Clearly what Orban was doing wasn't sustainable. People don't want to have more kids. They don't want to get money now and then in five years be told there's not enough money any more. Or they just don't want three kids. One is more than enough köszönöm.

Other countries are doing immigration because they know that immigrants can provide the workers a country needs to A) keep grow and B) keep pensions at an acceptable level.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/why-europe-cant-face-its-pension-black-hole-2025-10-16/

Most western countries are going to hit the fan in about 10 years time. Demographics have it where the number of people is much lower who will be under 65.

View attachment 1243228
This is Germany. You can see the fall off in people who are 50-54 and younger. Well when they are 60-64, then you've got all those people from the age group above hitting retirement (more payouts for pensions) and those people who are in the lower group are earning money (less people paying for pensions).

The only thing that's stopped this happening sooner is IMMIGRATION.

Japan has a pretty similar demographic situation. But it has less younger people because of their lack of immigration.

View attachment 1243229

The other problem is that immigrants come in and they don't have as many kids as you might hope. So the only real thing you can do is keep having people coming in and working, then they want to settle down then you need more immigrants.

The UK has a birth rate slightly higher than Hungary's. They do this with immigration. One in three kids are born to foreign mothers.

Children of migrants in the UK - Migration Observatory

This briefing looks at the children of migrants, including those born abroad and those born in the UK to foreign-born parents

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

"In 2024, more than one in three children born in England and Wales had a foreign-born mother, and this share has been rising."

But even the foreign born mothers are not at the replacement rate. They're at 2.0 and 2.1 is the replacement rate.

Women born in the UK (even if they're from an immigrant family) the rate is 1.5, well below the replacement rate.

So, without immigration you'd be looking at the UK population being reduced year on year as for every 4 people dying, you have three being born.

Within 10 years the economy will have totally stagnated, like Japan's has been for 30 years or so.

So, Hungary has been opposed to immigration, it's tried to get people to have more kids, it's failed, for the most part, increasing birth rates a little, but never above the replacement rate.

So what choices do people have?

1) Economic stagnation
2) Low pensions
3) Immigration

Now, a lot of politicians have decided (for their people, rather than discussing it with them because they know they won't like any of the choices) to go for number 3.

Hungary didn't, and Hungary has also failed, and spent a lot of money doing so.

Personally I think these countries need to perhaps look at stagnation as an acceptable avenue, I don't think Japan is in such a bad place. However this is not how RICH PEOPLE see things. They want to make money.

The US is run by rich people, hence why these rich people seem to want immigration, until they figure out it makes for scoring easy points with dumb MAGA type supporters.

So, understanding birth rates in Hungary is important to understanding why things are happening. You can talk about not wanting Muslims is, well, they can choose immigration as one way of dealing with things.

For a politician, 1 and 2 are basically suicide. People will NOT vote for them.

So, you're left with number 3.

Fits in perfectly with what I said about populism.

People are discontented about their perceived economic stagnation. So they elect a populist, because they tell them what they want to hear. Mainly, " I can solve this, and immigrants are to blame."

Then, they don't solve it, get voted out of office and everybody is worse off.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Fits in perfectly with what I said about populism.

People are discontented about their perceived economic stagnation. So they elect a populist, because they tell them what they want to hear. Mainly, " I can solve this, and immigrants are to blame."

Then, they don't solve it, get voted out of office and everybody is worse off.

Yes, this is a huge problem with democracy. People who don't know what they're being told.

Populism is easy, the people who do populism are often the sort of people who don't actually care about other people. They've learned their whole lives they can make money by manipulating people.

Take Trump.

Populist. He's always made money manipulating people. He's also rich.

Nigel Farage in the UK, populist, says whatever anyone wants to hear. Ironically one of his sources of income is a website where people pay him to say things, like "happy birfday grandma" and it only cost $75 a pop or something.

He's also rich. Was rich when he started politics and accepts money from ANYONE (he was working for Russian state owned TV and his Welsh leader was convicted of taking Russian bribes, for example.)

Same with US born Boris Johnson, otherwise known as "Bozo the Clown" and "BJ", rich and used populism (ironically his great grandfather was an Ottoman politician (Muslim too)).

Rich.

Obviously not all are rich. But often it's the case that they see the opportunity for making money from stupid poor people.

 

[forkup]

Yes, this is a huge problem with democracy. People who don't know what they're being told.

Populism is easy, the people who do populism are often the sort of people who don't actually care about other people. They've learned their whole lives they can make money by manipulating people.

Take Trump.

Populist. He's always made money manipulating people. He's also rich.

Nigel Farage in the UK, populist, says whatever anyone wants to hear. Ironically one of his sources of income is a website where people pay him to say things, like "happy birfday grandma" and it only cost $75 a pop or something.

He's also rich. Was rich when he started politics and accepts money from ANYONE (he was working for Russian state owned TV and his Welsh leader was convicted of taking Russian bribes, for example.)

Same with US born Boris Johnson, otherwise known as "Bozo the Clown" and "BJ", rich and used populism (ironically his great grandfather was an Ottoman politician (Muslim too)).

Rich.

Obviously not all are rich. But often it's the case that they see the opportunity for making money from stupid poor people.

I don't think stupid is the right term. The truth is that most people are unintrested in politics. And even more about the nitty gritty about policy.

Immigrants are taking your job is easier to sell, than a lecture about demographics.

So what used to happen is that the media played the role of translator for common people and those messages were consistent. In this media enviremont that has mostly stopped. It's not about informing people but clicks now. Clicks that you get by telling people that they're right, and won't get when you tell them they're wrong.

So they don't really translate, they are just as populist/partisan.

So they're not stupid, but uninterested and misinformed. The results are the same of course.

 

[egp320i]

So, Orban is anti-immigration. The only way to be viably anti-immigration is to be "pro-large families".

So Orban spent LOADS OF MONEY on making sure white Hungarians were pumping them out faster than a Catholic can say "condominium".

Viktor Orbán's Hungary: The Erosion of Reproductive Rights - Population Matters

Explore Viktor Orbán's policies, global alliances and their impact on reproductive rights for the population in Hungary.

populationmatters.org

"Hungary, under Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, has become a global symbol of the pronatalist movement."

"Orbán’s government has sought to tackle this with pronatalist policies like tax exemptions for women with four or more children and other family-oriented incentives, allocating 6% of GDP to these efforts."

Hungary birth rate falls to record monthly low despite €30,000 offer to 3-child families | Fortune

Hungary registered a meager 6,000 births in June, even as it offers steep financial incentives to new parents.

fortune.com

"Hungary offered €30,000 to couples having 3 kids"

6% of GDP on getting Hungarians to have more kids.

Orban's been in 16 years, since 2010.

Hungary Birth Rate | Historical Data | Chart | 1950-2025

Hungary Birth Rate: Historical data from 1950 to 2025.

www.macrotrends.net

In 2010 the birth rate was 9.0
Now in 2026 it's 9.2

It did get up to 9.8, probably because people thought having kids during the covid period was a good use of their time and a good way to make money.

But recently that rate has been going down.

Total fertility rate Europe by country 2024| Statista

In 2024, Monaco was the European country estimated to have the highest fertility rate.

www.statista.com

Hungary is way down the list of countries for birth rate. It's slightly above the EU average, but below quite a few other countries who aren't actually doing that much.

Now, the big issue here is "how do you keep birth rates at a sustainable level?"

Clearly what Orban was doing wasn't sustainable. People don't want to have more kids. They don't want to get money now and then in five years be told there's not enough money any more. Or they just don't want three kids. One is more than enough köszönöm.

Other countries are doing immigration because they know that immigrants can provide the workers a country needs to A) keep grow and B) keep pensions at an acceptable level.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/why-europe-cant-face-its-pension-black-hole-2025-10-16/

Most western countries are going to hit the fan in about 10 years time. Demographics have it where the number of people is much lower who will be under 65.

View attachment 1243228
This is Germany. You can see the fall off in people who are 50-54 and younger. Well when they are 60-64, then you've got all those people from the age group above hitting retirement (more payouts for pensions) and those people who are in the lower group are earning money (less people paying for pensions).

The only thing that's stopped this happening sooner is IMMIGRATION.

Japan has a pretty similar demographic situation. But it has less younger people because of their lack of immigration.

View attachment 1243229

The other problem is that immigrants come in and they don't have as many kids as you might hope. So the only real thing you can do is keep having people coming in and working, then they want to settle down then you need more immigrants.

The UK has a birth rate slightly higher than Hungary's. They do this with immigration. One in three kids are born to foreign mothers.

Children of migrants in the UK - Migration Observatory

This briefing looks at the children of migrants, including those born abroad and those born in the UK to foreign-born parents

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

"In 2024, more than one in three children born in England and Wales had a foreign-born mother, and this share has been rising."

But even the foreign born mothers are not at the replacement rate. They're at 2.0 and 2.1 is the replacement rate.

Women born in the UK (even if they're from an immigrant family) the rate is 1.5, well below the replacement rate.

So, without immigration you'd be looking at the UK population being reduced year on year as for every 4 people dying, you have three being born.

Within 10 years the economy will have totally stagnated, like Japan's has been for 30 years or so.

So, Hungary has been opposed to immigration, it's tried to get people to have more kids, it's failed, for the most part, increasing birth rates a little, but never above the replacement rate.

So what choices do people have?

1) Economic stagnation
2) Low pensions
3) Immigration

Now, a lot of politicians have decided (for their people, rather than discussing it with them because they know they won't like any of the choices) to go for number 3.

Hungary didn't, and Hungary has also failed, and spent a lot of money doing so.

Personally I think these countries need to perhaps look at stagnation as an acceptable avenue, I don't think Japan is in such a bad place. However this is not how RICH PEOPLE see things. They want to make money.

The US is run by rich people, hence why these rich people seem to want immigration, until they figure out it makes for scoring easy points with dumb MAGA type supporters.

So, understanding birth rates in Hungary is important to understanding why things are happening. You can talk about not wanting Muslims is, well, they can choose immigration as one way of dealing with things.

For a politician, 1 and 2 are basically suicide. People will NOT vote for them.

So, you're left with number 3.

You took some time I will give you a thumbs up

Immigration from WHERE is the key

Poland, Austria, you know white people like they are

If you think import arabs to rape the women that is not a cure, it's a culture bleach


what makes Hungary any better than their neighbors they would want to move there and have kids?

You need some incentive

Orban tried, he offered aid, maybe the women just DO NOT want to have kids??

you can't force people to **** and have children, it's not a labor camp [cue on labor]

If a tax break or incentive does not work I don't see any alternative, the women don't want a family

How do you make people have more kids?

Orban spent 6% of GDP on it, and it didn't work well.

How much do you have to spend? And the more you spend, the less you have for PENSIONSSSSSSSS

You can't make people have more kids if they do not want to
looks evident to me even monetary incentive is not working

I am actually about 20% or so Hungarian, I would be happy to knock up some pretty young women
and get paid, where so I sign up?

 

[forkup]

You took some time I will give you a thumbs up

Immigration from WHERE is the key

Poland, Austria, you know white people like they are

If you think import arabs to rape the women that is not a cure, it's a culture bleach


what makes Hungary any better than their neighbors they would want to move there and have kids?

You need some incentive

Orban tried, he offered aid, maybe the women just DO NOT want to have kids??

you can't force people to **** and have children, it's not a labor camp [cue on labor]

If a tax break or incentive does not work I don't see any alternative, the women don't want a family

The problem isn’t that you don’t see an alternative. The problem is that you don’t want the alternative.

Because in the end, you are a bigot. That’s not a slur here, it’s just an observation. “Arabs rape women” and “culture bleach” make that pretty clear.

The reality is that people from Poland and Austria don’t want to move to Hungary, because for them that would be a downgrade in terms of wealth and opportunity. The only “white people” possibly emigrating in large numbers are Ukrainians, and guess what, Orbán made it a point to screw them over too, so they’re unlikely to come if they have viable alternatives.

What does it tell you when the solutions you propose are ruled out by your own ideology?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't think stupid is the right term. The truth is that most people are unintrested in politics. And even more about the nitty gritty about policy.

Immigrants are taking your job is easier to sell, than a lecture about demographics.

So what used to happen is that the media played the role of translator for common people and those messages were consistent. In this media enviremont that has mostly stopped. It's not about informing people but clicks now. Clicks that you get by telling people that they're right, and won't get when you tell them they're wrong.

So they don't really translate, they are just as populist/partisan.

So they're not stupid, but uninterested and misinformed. The results are the same of course.

Well, stupid or ignorant, two definitions that are often interchangeable.

When someone is manipulating you and you don't understand that this is happening and it's so obvious... is that ignorant or stupid?

When someone tells them this is happening and they ignore it, what is that?

 

[frigidweirdo]

You took some time I will give you a thumbs up

Immigration from WHERE is the key

Poland, Austria, you know white people like they are

If you think import arabs to rape the women that is not a cure, it's a culture bleach


what makes Hungary any better than their neighbors they would want to move there and have kids?

You need some incentive

Orban tried, he offered aid, maybe the women just DO NOT want to have kids??

you can't force people to **** and have children, it's not a labor camp [cue on labor]

If a tax break or incentive does not work I don't see any alternative, the women don't want a family

How do you make people have more kids?

Orban spent 6% of GDP on it, and it didn't work well.

How much do you have to spend? And the more you spend, the less you have for PENSIONSSSSSSSS

You can't make people have more kids if they do not want to
looks evident to me even monetary incentive is not working

I am actually about 20% or so Hungarian, I would be happy to knock up some pretty young women
and get paid, where so I sign up?

Immigration from where is the key.

Look at birth rates around the world.

List of countries by birth rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The highest, Niger, Somalia, CAR, Chad, DRC, Mali, Angola, Mauritania, Mozambique, Nigeria, Uganda....

Top 11 are Africa

Then Afghanistan, then the next 23 are Africa.

Then look at poverty. And you'll see some similar countries and others that are different.

People aren't going to move to another country en masse, unless their country is poor or there are way too many people and poor.

The UK has had a lot of immigration, the WORST is from Caribbean countries, especially Jamaica, the gangs came through there.

But apart from that, the UK has much lower crime than the US, especially murders.

Yes, some of these people are undereducated, which is the problem. Why let in under educated people? Let in the educated who will work, who want to work.

But then some people want low paid mindless workers, taxi drivers and the like...

And you can't force people to have kids. So, they had incentives, that didn't work.

So what else do you do? Accept stagnation, accept people will vote you out of office and then the next guy will just use immigration?

 

[Robert W]

Now they are blaming Vance? Only TDS tards would blame Trump, it is idiotic to think that 16 year veteran Orban was actually cruising to another glorious win only to be killed by Trump/Vance, suggesting that Hungary was all in for Orban and their TDS for Trump killed his election!

The guy's time had come and gone and Trump tried to be a buddy and buoy his chances at the last minute but Orban was done, lost in a landslide that not even Trump could save.

Oh well, it will be funny now if a year from now they wish they still had Orban (which wouldn't surprise me.

And the new prime minister is more to the right than Orban is.

 

[forkup]

Well, stupid or ignorant, two definitions that are often interchangeable.

When someone is manipulating you and you don't understand that this is happening and it's so obvious... is that ignorant or stupid?

When someone tells them this is happening and they ignore it, what is that?

“It’s neither, it’s a predictable psychological process namely motivated reasoning and sunk cost.

Think of it like this.

You live in an enviremont that allows you to believe not just that you're right, but that has also made you believe that the people who don't believe like you do are evil.

Now imagine that you believe, that in order to stop these people you have to defend some stuff that you kind of know is bad, but that in your view is still not as bad as the evil people.

Now repeat about a 1000 times.

At a certain point, you have compromised so much with yourself, that acknowledging that you might have been wrong would devestate you.

You're not asking them to look at the facts. You're asking them to acknowledge that their entire belief system is wrong or even evil.

Would you be able to make that leap? I would like to hope I could, but in truth I don't know. Changing my mind is hard, changing my ideoligy.... (nearly) impossible.

 

[frigidweirdo]

“It’s neither, it’s a predictable psychological process namely motivated reasoning and sunk cost.

Think of it like this.

You live in an enviremont that allows you to believe not just that you're right, but that has also made you believe that the people who don't believe like you do are evil.

Now imagine that you believe, that in order to stop these people you have to defend some stuff that you kind of know is bad, but that in your view is still not as bad as the evil people.

Now repeat about a 1000 times.

At a certain point, you have compromised so much with yourself, that acknowledging that you might have been wrong would devestate you.

You're not asking them to look at the facts. You're asking them to acknowledge that their entire belief system is wrong or even evil.

Would you be able to make that leap? I would lile to hope I could, but in truth I don't know. Changing my mind is hard, changing my ideoligy.... (nearly) impossible.

Yes, believing rather than knowing.

And wanting your beliefs to be an extension of your ego.

But the problem is most of these people have the whole internet at their fingertips. They have the knowledge there, they just choose not to use it.

I push Proportional Representation a lot.

Some of the responses I get are like:

"Well, we already have proportional representation"
"We're not Europe"
"We don't have Proportional Representation, so there's no point talking about it"

Literally a person who is on an online political forum who could go to wikipedia and read a little about what this thing is they don't understand.

Instead they choose to have an opinion without even know what it is that is being talked about. They can't be bothered to take the time to find out.

Even better is when you ask them what Communism is.

My other half isn't interested in politics. They don't try and understand, don't see the point. Fine. But for people who pretend to know, and then simply don't bother to understand, isn't that being stupid?

People want to be entertained these days, they want politicians who will entertain and make life easy for them.

Happened in Germany in 1990 when the CDU and Helmut Kohl said reunification would be amazing. The SPD said it would be a difficult road.

So they voted for the CDU and the flowers, and they got what the SPD said would happen, just without being prepared for it. Because people like being told how to think, so they don't have to.

And it's dangerous when people have become so sophisticated that they know how to manipulate en masse.

 

[Robert W]

Vance's funniest moment was complaining to the audience about foreign countries trying to meddle in Hungary's election while he was trying to meddle in Hungary's election on behalf of a foreign country

Yes he did. Because Brussels was instructing Hungary how to vote and to vote for the new prime minister.

 

[Robert W]

just maybe it was time for a change after 16 years?
From what I read he wants to keep Hungary isolated from the EU
They still have their own currency

They still are keeping muslim hordes out

apparently the people want the euro and invaders now?

that will be their death sentence

The incoming prime minister is to the right of Orban.
We have to see to be sure, but I doubt he imports Muslims.

 

[forkup]

Yes, believing rather than knowing.

And wanting your beliefs to be an extension of your ego.

But the problem is most of these people have the whole internet at their fingertips. They have the knowledge there, they just choose not to use it.

I push Proportional Representation a lot.

Some of the responses I get are like:

"Well, we already have proportional representation"
"We're not Europe"
"We don't have Proportional Representation, so there's no point talking about it"

Literally a person who is on an online political forum who could go to wikipedia and read a little about what this thing is they don't understand.

Instead they choose to have an opinion without even know what it is that is being talked about. They can't be bothered to take the time to find out.

Even better is when you ask them what Communism is.

My other half isn't interested in politics. They don't try and understand, don't see the point. Fine. But for people who pretend to know, and then simply don't bother to understand, isn't that being stupid?

People want to be entertained these days, they want politicians who will entertain and make life easy for them.

Happened in Germany in 1990 when the CDU and Helmut Kohl said reunification would be amazing. The SPD said it would be a difficult road.

So they voted for the CDU and the flowers, and they got what the SPD said would happen, just without being prepared for it. Because people like being told how to think, so they don't have to.

And it's dangerous when people have become so sophisticated that they know how to manipulate en masse.

I think you underestimate the motivated reasoning part and the fact that the internet has so much information that people can believe anything and "find" reams of information that confirms it.

Let me give you an anecdote that encapsulates that. Years ago me and a friend get shitfaced and we end up at his house.

He proudly proclaims that he can debunk global warming, and me equally drunk tell him to go ahead and try.

So he fires up his laptop, goes on google and he types in "global warming hoax." So off course, Google spews out about 20000 results.

I go on Google and type in "average global temperature."

He looks at the results and is actually baffled. Apperantly he had never seen that particular fact. Why... well all his imformation told him that it was a hoax and it took my drunk ass to point to that particular piece of information.

The point is this. My friend isn't stupid, but his ideological aligment told him something he actually did look up, and he just never bothered looking up if that something was actually factual.

He didn’t lack access to information, he lacked a reason to question the frame he started with.

Now increase that ideoligical blind spot about 100 times for the reason I already stated and the belief becomes impregnable.

 

[egp320i]

The incoming prime minister is to the right of Orban.
We have to see to be sure, but I doubt he imports Muslims.

Hope that is true
but as some have pointed out they have a birth rate problem

how do you fix that? if tax incentives don't help not sure anything will

 

[egp320i]

Immigration from where is the key.

Look at birth rates around the world.

List of countries by birth rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The highest, Niger, Somalia, CAR, Chad, DRC, Mali, Angola, Mauritania, Mozambique, Nigeria, Uganda....

Top 11 are Africa

Then Afghanistan, then the next 23 are Africa.

Then look at poverty. And you'll see some similar countries and others that are different.

People aren't going to move to another country en masse, unless their country is poor or there are way too many people and poor.

The UK has had a lot of immigration, the WORST is from Caribbean countries, especially Jamaica, the gangs came through there.

But apart from that, the UK has much lower crime than the US, especially murders.

Yes, some of these people are undereducated, which is the problem. Why let in under educated people? Let in the educated who will work, who want to work.

But then some people want low paid mindless workers, taxi drivers and the like...

And you can't force people to have kids. So, they had incentives, that didn't work.

So what else do you do? Accept stagnation, accept people will vote you out of office and then the next guy will just use immigration?

Black people love to populate, when you have 5 wives, well that's going to happen
They are also muslim.......you see a common thread here?

more muslims, more conquest, take over the world......that is the grand plan, always has been

kinda hard to defend, spread our BS cult by the sword, you convert or die, not much choice

One place that needs massive birth control it's africa before they have no land, no trees, no animals left

it's heading that way, very sad and they will eat anything they can kill, endangered or not, don't care

 

[Blaster]

Orban had become increasingly unpopular with the citizens.

 

[Blaster]

The incoming prime minister is to the right of Orban.
We have to see to be sure, but I doubt he imports Muslims.

Yes he is much more conservative.