Zone1 Is habeas corpus a right in a free society ?

[Tommy Tainant]

It has actually been suspended four times.

Instance	Date/Period	Context/Reason	Geographic Scope
Civil War (Abraham Lincoln)	1861–1865	To suppress rebellion and maintain public safety during the Civil War	Initially in Maryland, later throughout the Union
Reconstruction (Ku Klux Klan activity)	1871	To combat violent resistance by the Ku Klux Klan during Reconstruction	Eleven counties in South Carolina
Philippine Insurrection	1905	In response to armed insurrection against U.S. rule	Two provinces in the Philippines (then a U.S. territory)
World War II (Pearl Harbor)	1941–1944	After the attack on Pearl Harbor, for security and martial law purposes	Territory of Hawaii

• Civil War (1861–1865): President Abraham Lincoln first suspended habeas corpus in Maryland in 1861 to prevent Confederate sympathizers from disrupting Union troop movements. Congress later passed the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act (1863), giving the president broader authority to suspend the writ throughout the Union for the duration of the war and in cases involving prisoners of war, spies, traitors, or military personnel. The suspension lasted until it was revoked by President Andrew Johnson in 1865
  
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• Reconstruction (1871): President Ulysses S. Grant suspended habeas corpus in eleven South Carolina counties to suppress Ku Klux Klan violence and restore order during Reconstruction. This was authorized by the Civil Rights Act of 1871 (also known as the Ku Klux Klan Act)
  
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• Philippine Insurrection (1905): During an insurrection against American rule in the Philippines, habeas corpus was suspended in two provinces to address armed resistance and maintain control
  
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• World War II (1941–1944): Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, martial law was declared in Hawaii (then a U.S. territory), and habeas corpus was suspended to maintain security and order during the war
  
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These are the only four recognized instances where the writ of habeas corpus has been formally suspended in U.S. history

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I would suggest that saying mean things about Trump or Isreal is not as serious as Pearl Harbour or the Civil War. And in any case thatis your right. Or used to be.

 

[jc456]

His theft was a mistake that trump admitted. All the courts agreed he should be brought back. You cant condemn people on whispers.

no, they didn't tell trump to bring him back, they said facilitate. Trump has no ruling in El Salvador. Bondi said she'd supply the flight.

 

[Darkwind]

I would suggest that saying mean things about Trump or Isreal is not as serious as Pearl Harbour or the Civil War. And in any case thatis your right. Or used to be.

I would suggest that saying unpopular things on social media or standing silently and praying next to a baby killing outlet is not the same as Pearl Harbor or a Civil War, but you clowns lock people up for just such a thing.

Go tend to the log in your own eye and leave the mote in ours to us.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

no, they didn't tell trump to bring him back, they said facilitate. Trump has no ruling in El Salvador. Bondi said she'd supply the flight.

Kilmer would therefore be arrested immediately upon the plane landing and deportation would begin.

 

[jc456]

I would suggest that saying mean things about Trump or Isreal is not as serious as Pearl Harbour or the Civil War. And in any case thatis your right. Or used to be.

Neither is walking through our capital

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Kilmer would therefore be arrested immediately upon the plane landing and deportation would begin.

Kilmer is entitled to a hearing. Where EVIDENCE is heard. its kind of an old world tradition that your lynch mob society didnt carry across.

 

[jc456]

Kilmer is entitled to a hearing. Where EVIDENCE is heard. its kind of an old world tradition that your lynch mob society didnt carry across.

he had several, and isn't deserving of any. Was he a legal resident?

 

[PeterPilot]

DGS49

Yeah, that old principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is so damn yesterday, eh? Nobody is entitled to that except for you, eh?

 

[jc456]

DGS49

Yeah, that old principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is so damn yesterday, eh? Nobody is entitled to that except for you, eh?

funny, did you give republicans that?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it?

It is a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment - but the White House is "actively looking" at pausing it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently Pres Trump is looking to stop habeas corpus in order to speed up the deportation of people.
This is already happening and there are many examples of life changing errors happening.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?
Does your neighbour ?
Should you have a right to counsel ?

Is it worth slowing the process down to ensure fairness ?

Liberals Use Slippery Logic

They have to prove they're American before they can American rights.
What is done to cheap-labor invaders is no threat to our own rights.

 

[otto105]

What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it?

It is a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment - but the White House is "actively looking" at pausing it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently Pres Trump is looking to stop habeas corpus in order to speed up the deportation of people.
This is already happening and there are many examples of life changing errors happening.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?
Does your neighbour ?
Should you have a right to counsel ?

Is it worth slowing the process down to ensure fairness ?

Next up for Shitler! is declaring the Magna Carta woke.

 

[otto105]

Liberals Use Slippery Logic

They have to prove they're American before they can American rights.
What is done to cheap-labor invaders is no threat to our own rights.

Prove that you’re not a fascist first.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

So as a non citizen visiting the US I can be locked up or sent to El Salvador without even being charged with a crime ?
Where is the fairness in that ?

Again you're trying to associate this with someone who has no proof that he belongs here, whereas someone with a visa does have it

 

[otto105]

Again you're trying to associate this with someone who has no proof that he belongs here, whereas someone with a visa does have it

Our constitution (which you carry a copy of) guarantees due process.

Are you not a strict constitutionalist?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Non citizens cant vote so your straw man is worthless. But they are all equal under the law. Not in Americaa it would seem.
And remember trumpy wants to deport us born citizens he doesnt like.
That may include you. And if it doesnt it may be the next admin that decides you arent welcome.
So its good they can kick you out with your blessing.

If You've Heard of Someone, Don't Listen to Him

It is not logical to get a legal right through illegal means. That is far more conclusive that any argument on either side. Both sides' arguments are all taken from above, and those people, pissing on us from on high, never have their listeners' interests in mind, only their own.

 

[otto105]

If You've Heard of Someone, Don't Listen to Him

It is not logical to get a legal right through illegal means. That is far more conclusive that any argument on either side. Both sides' arguments are all taken from above, and those people, pissing on us from on high, never have their listeners' interests in mind, only their own.

Do you understand our constitution?

 

[jc456]

Prove that you’re not a fascist first.

define what a fascist is.

 

[jc456]

Do you understand our constitution?

we know you don't.

 

[otto105]

define what a fascist is.

That which you love. The rise of Hitler and his disastrous 13 years.

 

[Rigby5]

I seriously do not know why Leftists are so stupid about "due process."

It is different in every case.

When an American citizen is accused of a crime, s/he is entitled to a whole cornucopia of rights, most of the originating in the Fourth Amendment and some dating back to English Common Law.

The same cornucopia of rights does not attach to everyone in the U.S., everyone apprehended by the U.S. government, or all circumstances.

If a non-citizen is apprehended in, let's say, a raid on an employer known to employ illegals, and it can easily be ascertained that they are in the country illegally, the person's "due process" rights may be nothing more than an interview with an ICE representative. Then they can be deported or detained for later deportation. They are not entitled to a trial, free government-provided legal representation, or any of that. "Due process" varies according to the situation.

The same is true of Habeas Corpus. American citizens have HC rights when they are detained against their will and it appears reasonably that their due process rights are being withheld. For illegals, this is not the case. Remember Noriega? No habeas corpus. He died in detention, as I recall.

We run into the same arguments with people detained at Gitmo. Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial, legal counsel, and they have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

The sad fact is that the political Left WANTS these wretched third-world bastards to remain in the U.S. They want them to be counted for representation purposes, they want them to get the full benefit of our social Safety Net, and they want them eventually to be made U.S. citizens under a program they euphemistically call, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." Leftists are evil. How can anyone not see it?

Totally wrong.
Your assumption is that rights are privileges granted by government, and that is totally wrong.
Rights can never be granted by government because that would imply government then also has the authority to rescind those rights, and it does not.
Rights are superior to government, come first, and are why we as individuals had the right to rebel from Britian and for a new government.

So everyone has habeas corpus.
It is not created by government.
It pre-exists government.

And yes, Noreiga had habeas corpus rights.
He had a full trial, legal representation, etc.

And you also do not understand economics.
China is beating us on things like TVs, cellphones, computers, etc., because they have 10 times the workers we do, so gain from "economy of scale".
The more workers we have, the better we can compete against China.
So deporting workers is extremely foolish and will destroy this country.