Is God perfect or imperfect?

[anotherlife]

The common denominator between all religions is not even creation, but the question of why there is suffering.

Intuitively, a perfect existence would have everything in its place with no need to do anything therefore there would be no suffering.

But there is movement and there is a devil or whatever you want to use to characterize suffering. In fact, everything starting from its very conception begins to suffer to various degrees as time goes on.

So let's ask the question. Is suffering an indicator that God is imperfect? Is it an indicator of an alternative creator of the physical world that is not God?

And what do we do about suffering? Like the Buddhist we live minimalist? Or like the Catharies we sit it out to starve ourselves?

The degree of suffering is variable to everything conceived and it is built into its conception, like a demonic possession.

So here is the basic universal question. What do we do about it.

Laws don't help because they just result in bureaucratic random effect on suffering.

Churches of various religions may be better but they don't get very far either because of doctrinal self trapping.

So let's have a free association of thoughts, what can be done about suffering?

 

[BULLDOG]

Man isn't capable of understanding the mind of God and he has a greater purpose for our suffering. If that doesn't convince them then tell them that all suffering is because we have free will, and then blame the questioner because he doesn't have enough faith to understand it. That's what the religious nuts always do, anyway.

 

[occupied]

If God exists even he must comply to the laws of physics. The one thing that seems to rule over everything is entropy. Things run down and die. Even black holes eventually evaporate. Don't search for an external meaning to existence, that has to come from you.

 

[Canon Shooter]

 

[onefour1]

What does it mean for God to be perfect? Does that mean that he has the power to do absolutely anything imaginable? I believe that God is perfect in that he can do all that is possible to do. However, I do believe that there are things that are impossible even for God. For example, I don't believe that God can be a being who has always existed and also to have never existed. I don't think he has the power to do both those things. As member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, God has revealed another truth about himself which reveals another impossibility for God.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
9 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Here God is telling us that man is as self-existent as God himself. Here intelligence is told to us to be self-existent and was not created or made and neither indeed can be. In other words, not even God can create our intelligence. This would explain why God doesn't just create us to be as perfect as himself from the beginning. Our intelligence, which is self-existent, is obviously not perfect in its eternal state and since it cannot be created it must be taught to be more perfect. Part of the true perfection of God is that he is a totally free will being who chooses to be perfect. I believe this is what God's work is. It is to help bring about the perfection of self-existent beings by giving them free will and allowing them to choose good over evil. In mans progression, he is given a spirit body and then a physical body.

The suffering in this world is part of the learning of mankind. This mortal life is a temporary state of life that we choose to go through in order to learn good and bad. But we do have the ability to mitigate suffering to the extent that we can. I think treating each other with respect and dignity and helping to alleviate each others pains and sufferings and making life as safe as possible for all of us is the type of beings we should be. Our medical industry helps with some of this. Other industries help in making things safe to use that might cause us harm. However, we all must at one time or another go through bodily pain and suffer and we all must die. Not sure if all death is a suffering or not but suffering is a part of our world.

I think it is a natural tendency for us to avoid suffering and protect our family from unnecessary suffering if possible. Eventually we all will resurrect and live in eternity without all the suffering we experience in this life. I think it is good to have the perspective that we can live forever after resurrection without all the suffering we have in this life. This life is temporary and it will all be over at some time in our future.

 

[MarathonMike]

If I were a supreme being, I would find it insufferably boring to control every aspect of the little critters I created. I would let them run wild and observe how my critters evolve, create, destroy, live, love, hate, suffer, succeed, explore, and die.

 

[justinacolmena]

God created man in His own image; that is, in absolute perfection and in all innocency.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:27 - King James Version

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

www.biblegateway.com

God formed the man He had created of the dust of the earth.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:7 - King James Version

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:21-22 - King James Version

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

www.biblegateway.com

God perfected His work, because nothing short of perfection is acceptable before God.

PSALMS 139:16 KJV Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which...

Psalms 139:16 KJV: Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

WISDOM OF SOLOMON 2:23 KJV For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.

Wisdom of Solomon 2:23 KJV: For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[ClaireH]

The common denominator between all religions is not even creation, but the question of why there is suffering.

Intuitively, a perfect existence would have everything in its place with no need to do anything therefore there would be no suffering.

But there is movement and there is a devil or whatever you want to use to characterize suffering. In fact, everything starting from its very conception begins to suffer to various degrees as time goes on.

So let's ask the question. Is suffering an indicator that God is imperfect? Is it an indicator of an alternative creator of the physical world that is not God?

And what do we do about suffering? Like the Buddhist we live minimalist? Or like the Catharies we sit it out to starve ourselves?

The degree of suffering is variable to everything conceived and it is built into its conception, like a demonic possession.

So here is the basic universal question. What do we do about it.

Laws don't help because they just result in bureaucratic random effect on suffering.

Churches of various religions may be better but they don't get very far either because of doctrinal self trapping.

So let's have a free association of thoughts, what can be done about suffering?

Oh, I can do free association well, great! Fascinating topic that something can be done about human suffering.

The first thing that came to mind is that two people can have the exact same things happen to them in life, let's say a doppleganger even, and one could have a 50% amount of suffering while the other reports a 25% level of suffering. Why do you think that is? I'm guessing some of us are just wired differently, but also I happen to know that sometimes a person is more dramatic, or less, than others about feeling how much they've suffered in life. A common measure for pain at the ER is scaled from a 0-10 and there is little doubt two people suffering from the same level of pain for same condition will score their pain quite differently.

A Buddhist might say that all pain in inevitable, and that suffering is optional. That sounds very promising, but I'm wondering if that tiny Buddha writer has had say, pancreatic cancer ,and still maintain that position. Possibly so.

As far as where we are now with reducing human suffering, we're currently making strides to accomplish that (if only our ethical decision making could keep the pace). There are numerous advancements related to pain reduction (suffering) on the horizon for reversing the process of aging. In Israel, they've discovered how to use pure oxygen to reverse, not just stall, but to reverse aging. I read also about "age refresher machines' that are also being funded to include organs, cells, and another company will freeze your dead body for $200,000 bucks.

Death scares a lot of people, even the idea of death, and even for some believers who still want to live longer on Earth. We want life and a long one. Now, had we been given a normal life span of 200 years, most humans would still wish for more. So maybe in that way, suffering serves a purpose that in the latter years people suffer more pain, and the idea of leaving Earth and their families is more accepted.

If human suffering can be defeated, it could be done with age reversal techniques, freezing dead bodies to later unfreeze at a much later date when unheard of procedures will be commonplace (sounds risky but I'm not a scientist and I'm thinking from a 2020 perspective), and the additive of human-machine symbiosis. The Future Machines of the Year 2100

Since these strategies to find the fountain of youth are currently evolving so quickly, it's still hard to imagine that a machine will be able to turn a 40 year old into 25 year old, or 60 year old into 30. If people have the means, it will be on the market and available.

DARPA told Popular Mechanics that war could soon use “an unprecedented degree of human-machine symbiosis...with interfaces between these powerful systems and their human operators as seamless as possible.” Machines going to war (assuming there will still be war) would prevent all kinds of horrendous suffering. DARPA told Popular Mechanics that war could soon use “an unprecedented degree of human-machine symbiosis...with interfaces between these powerful systems and their human operators as seamless as possible.” Machines going to war (assuming there will still be war) would prevent all kinds of horrendous suffering.

Editing note: I cannot find the original link but this one covers it well. What will the world be like in 2100? - Humane Future of Work

Considering your remarks about movement and relating that to high risk, catastrophic consequences from manipulating our atmosphere is described in better detail than I can in the following linked article, although on a much smaller scale we've been doing that for years, but not with swarms of hundreds of drones in the sky at the same time leaving dust particles in the air. That will be one of the costs for exploring things we've yet to do.

I wanted to add that I'm not backing people playing God when it comes to certain procedures. That said, however, if a person is suffering and it can be reduced or eliminated medically, by all means do it.

I used to have a lot more faith than I do now about a Creator of life, but it's even harder for me to understand how everything, so perfectly fitting with a multitude of specific measures (exact distance between Earth and Sun to work right) in the grand scheme of things, and to believe that it all just happened by some random energy event takes just as much faith imo.

 

[justinacolmena]

Death scares a lot of people, even the idea of death, and even for some believers who still want to live longer on Earth. We want life and a long one. Now, had we been given a normal life span of 200 years, most humans would still wish for more. So maybe in that way, suffering serves a purpose that in the latter years people suffer more pain, and the idea of leaving Earth and their families is more accepted.

Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.
>>> For the bewitching of naughtiness doth obscure things that are honest; and the wandering of concupiscence doth undermine the simple mind. He, being made perfect in a short time, fulfilled a long time: For his soul pleased the Lord: therefore hasted he to take him away from among the wicked. This the people saw, and understood it not, neither laid they up this in their minds, That his grace and mercy is with his saints, and that he hath respect unto his chosen. Thus the righteous that is dead shall condemn the ungodly which are living; and youth that is soon perfected the many years and old age of the unrighteous.

 

[Thoth001]

I think God is the sum of all consciousness. So our we perfect? No.. Nothing is perfect. There is a defect in everything. But it is up to the looker. What one person thinks is perfect may not be perfect to another.

 

[RodISHI]

God is perfect. As mere mortals we are as the grass which withers and eventually dies to return to the dust of the earth until rebirth of that which is flesh but the Spirit within us that is the portion created in God's image is the portion in us that is that is perfectly formed in God's image. It is in the growing stage and process while here in flesh.

 

[Thoth001]

God is perfect. As mere mortals we are as the grass which withers and eventually dies to return to the dust of the earth until rebirth of that which is flesh but the Spirit within us that is the portion created in God's image is the portion in us that is that is perfectly formed in God's image. It is in the growing stage and process while here in flesh.

Explain what perfect is.

 

[RodISHI]

Explain what perfect is.

It is where genuine love resides without all of the trappings of the flesh.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"perfect" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"love" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[norwegen]

Nothing can be done about suffering. And the church need not bear that burden, as its mandate is not to relieve the planet of suffering.

 

[norwegen]

If I were a supreme being, I would find it insufferably boring to control every aspect of the little critters I created. I would let them run wild and observe how my critters evolve, create, destroy, live, love, hate, suffer, succeed, explore, and die.

Christians have a vocation, as did Moses earlier and Adam before that. They are not called to idle existences; God is not in control of every facet of life.

 

[Hawkins]

The common denominator between all religions is not even creation, but the question of why there is suffering.

Intuitively, a perfect existence would have everything in its place with no need to do anything therefore there would be no suffering.

But there is movement and there is a devil or whatever you want to use to characterize suffering. In fact, everything starting from its very conception begins to suffer to various degrees as time goes on.

So let's ask the question. Is suffering an indicator that God is imperfect? Is it an indicator of an alternative creator of the physical world that is not God?

And what do we do about suffering? Like the Buddhist we live minimalist? Or like the Catharies we sit it out to starve ourselves?

The degree of suffering is variable to everything conceived and it is built into its conception, like a demonic possession.

So here is the basic universal question. What do we do about it.

Laws don't help because they just result in bureaucratic random effect on suffering.

Churches of various religions may be better but they don't get very far either because of doctrinal self trapping.

So let's have a free association of thoughts, what can be done about suffering?

To Christianity, this is a nonsense question more or less like, "if I found the filter dirty, does it mean that the aquarium is imperfect?" By design, it is a must for the filter to be dirty in order to secure the perfection of the aquarium. That's what it is. Planet earth is such a filter to secure the cleanness of Heaven which is the "aquarium".

Planet earth is not a place inside God's dwelling realm ever since Adam being kicked out of Eden. We thus pray that God's Kingdom come. While any place outside God's realm is supposed to be a hell (the absence of God is literally a place of torment). To put it simple, you can live in an environment with the correct temperature and humidity and such simply because it's God's creation (we took it for granted). Earth is not yet a hell simply because God's sheep are still here, God still has an unfinished job here. That said, earth is a place for everything evil to be openly exposed such that evil can be eradicated once and for all by means of a legal process we call the Final Judgment to secure a perfect Heaven. It's literally a filter of an aquarium. Why do you have to expect a filter being clean is beyond me.

So I am not surprised to see mass of humans wind up in hell, simply because they think that they are wise but they are actually stupid! This can be told by how their reasoning of the topic suffering being so stupid, while they sound to be so wise. LOL!!!

 

[norwegen]

The common denominator between all religions is not even creation, but the question of why there is suffering.

Intuitively, a perfect existence would have everything in its place with no need to do anything therefore there would be no suffering.

But there is movement and there is a devil or whatever you want to use to characterize suffering. In fact, everything starting from its very conception begins to suffer to various degrees as time goes on.

So let's ask the question. Is suffering an indicator that God is imperfect? Is it an indicator of an alternative creator of the physical world that is not God?

And what do we do about suffering? Like the Buddhist we live minimalist? Or like the Catharies we sit it out to starve ourselves?

The degree of suffering is variable to everything conceived and it is built into its conception, like a demonic possession.

So here is the basic universal question. What do we do about it.

Laws don't help because they just result in bureaucratic random effect on suffering.

Churches of various religions may be better but they don't get very far either because of doctrinal self trapping.

So let's have a free association of thoughts, what can be done about suffering?

To Christianity, this is a nonsense question more or less like, "if I found the filter dirty, does it mean that the aquarium is imperfect?" By design, it is a must for the filter to be dirty in order to secure the perfection of the aquarium. That's what it is. Planet earth is such a filter to secure the cleanness of Heaven which is the "aquarium".

Planet earth is not a place inside God's dwelling realm ever since Adam being kicked out of Eden. We thus pray that God's Kingdom come. While any place outside God's realm is supposed to be a hell (the absence of God is literally a place of torment). To put it simple, you can live in an environment with the correct temperature and humidity and such simply because it's God's creation (we took it for granted). Earth is not yet a hell simply because God's sheep are still here, God still has an unfinished job here. That said, earth is a place for everything evil to be openly exposed such that evil can be eradicated once and for all by means of a legal process we call the Final Judgment to secure a perfect Heaven. It's literally a filter of an aquarium. Why do you have to expect a filter being clean is beyond me.

On the contrary, the earth is where God dwells; His kingdom has come. Why else would the Messiah have come?

In the body, evil does not exist. In Adam it did. In Moses it did. In Christ it doesn't. I mean evil, of course, not suffering. Nowhere in the Bible does God promise to end suffering on the planet. Only evil in the "world" i.e., Israel.

 

[toobfreak]

Is God perfect or imperfect?
The common denominator between all religions is not even creation, but the question of why there is suffering.

THE QUESTION HAS NO MEANING. God is the embodiment of perfection. We have no way to even begin to appreciate it much less gauge it from our standpoint. Suffering is not a failing of God, suffering is part and parcel of material nature, ie, being apart from God. Most suffering as we know it comes not from God but from the hand of man from his arrogance to think he can act apart from God. Even those who suffer due to unfortunate material happenstance can benefit from knowing that concentration on God and reuniting with him is the end to all suffering, indeed, the very definition and cause of suffering is being apart from God.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the metaphysical is plural and ever changing, perfection or purity most likely comes and goes - like everything else. there will always be something.

 

[ESay]

I like the doctrine of emanations. In simple words it can be explained as the existence of a perfect source of light, and when the beams go farther and farther from the source they are more and more dispersing and paling.