Is education a right or a privilege?

[RodISHI]

Saying educated people don't have common sense is one of the ways Republicans justify their anti education stance. It's not quantifiable. It's merely a stupid accusation without any merit at all.

Look at Republicans now. They fight for Health Care CEOs to make tens of millions of dollars in salary they only get by "skimming" the policies of working people. Does that sound remotely like "common sense"?

A lot of engineers are out of work right now because companies have moved over seas. There they can pay workers a fraction of what they pay here and don't have to pay any health care at all.

Too late those companies realize that they can't sell their goods here because people don't have jobs and they can't sell them there because they don't make enough to afford them.

Bug off, redean. I am Republican. I do not agree with Blue Cross/ Blue Shield asshole CEO's having the ability to screw over their insureds in any manner. You have a hell of a lot more sold out, bought-off pricks in the Democratic party that assist these corporate thieves. Don't act all indignant when I tell you that you are a stupid little prick for going along with your partisan crap. You have no clue what your party currently stands for. In Iowa it is all Dem run. They went above and beyond legal means here to steal a mining operation from me because I would not sell out to corporate thugs. The Dems here were to busy sucking up to Wells Fargo for that new arena in Des Moines to prosecute the bastards for admitted fraud. It was much easier for them to have their Dem sheriff steal both my husband's equipment, raid our home and his shop and now they are getting ready to finish that off with an erroneous transfer of our house and shop. See here is the way it is with your party, "if you won't sell out we will take you out. While we are doing that to you and we are committing illegal acts we will threaten you with arrest if you protest our illegal actions against you." That is your Democratic party asshole, live with it!

So all the Democratic citizens and some Republican citizens that put this scum in to power, KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, and still would vote for them again? I find that hard to believe Rodi...that every day citizen Democrats want crooks in office....and this may not be what you are saying, but the conclusion could be read in to it?

I agree there are some very rotten apples in politics, however i do not for one nano second believe that one party or the other are exempt from such!

(Oh, and who you need to contact is the Office of the State Audit, or The State Auditor's Office...they handle whistle Blowers and also these type of things that you are going through.)
Care

That was the point I was making to redean, care. Locally here we were getting the shit kicked out of us by the courts with fraud upon the court and being threatened by the sheriff and his goons. The attorney general's office was aware of it. The governors office was made aware of it. The state auditor that will be a new one. The local auditor quit and went to work for the road department when I showed him a portion of the documents that showed one portion of these illegal transfers. Most recently an attorney at the AG's office told me that the county officials are an arm of the state, she could not would not help. I know you may think you have the answers but it does get long and complicated when you have this many people involved.

I know what it takes to inform all voters of situations like this. Been there in years past. I was not so fucking broke I could not afford a tank of gas or ink and paper to get flyers out though. The last time I fought this type of corruption I was put under arrest the night after an election on false charges after the election brought all new people into office. At least then I could pay for legal defense, I can't do that now and I know very few people here. If they got me in jail we would have one hell of a time getting me out. Not to mention the sheriff is extremely hostile here. There is nothing to sustain a whistle blower. I know. We have been in this situation that started over seven years ago. In 1993 I bid a sixteen million dollar contract here that was rigged. I was asked then to testify at senate hearings. I passed. I had no clue who was who here and did not know anyone here. My doctor thought I had cancer and I was not up for a battle with a bunch of thugs in a state we did not live in at that time. My family was just getting over the round of bullshit we went through with that crooked judge and my book keeper attempting to embezzle money back then.

Do I blame everyone? No, I do think there are way to many naive know it alls out there though and partisan assholes like redean that keep shit stirred instead of trying to remedy shit like this.

 

[Toro]

It is neither. It is a necessity.

 

[rdean]

K- 12 is neiither a right nor a privilege. It is a necessity, a requirement and an obligation. Uneducated, illiterate citizens do not a strong Republic make.
Higher education needs to be more diversified and the paid apprenticeship brought back in many fields, not just within certain unions. A four-year degree is nice to have but very expensive, and overkill for many of the service and technical jobs available.

So, were you out protesting the return of civics to the classroom? If so, all history teachers thank you. You do realize they are working at removing civics from standardized testing? The better to get ignorant cows.

If you ask me, we need more civics in the classroom. And less stupid standardized testing.

Def of Civics: The branch of political science that deals with civic affairs and the rights and duties of citizens.

I have to agree. But I also think we need more math, science, English and the Arts.

Actually, my personal feeling is that we should have a "path to excellence" where the brightest students are encouraged and their education is funded in such a way that it doesn't leave them with a burden until they are middle aged. Even Obama didn't pay off all his student loans until he was nearly forty.

Some students would make better carpenters and plumbers or masons.

We don't have enough trade schools and children are not encouraged to go to a trade school. Everyone wants their child to go to college. Except Republicans. Not sure what they want. They have such disdain for education.

Having students such as Kennedy, Bush and McCain take up a slot when it could have gone to someone who intellectually deserves it, simply because daddy was able to pull strings, is a shame and a waste.

 

[goldcatt]

I am no constitutional scholar by any means but isn't education the reponsibility of the states who have their own constitutions?. In NJ EVERY child until the age of 19 (21 if classified) is GUARANTEED a free and appropriate education. The NJ Supreme Court has ruled that includes rapists child molesters and murderers. We have no expulsion. Zero tolerance for guns means a one year suspension in an alternative program paid for by the local taxpayers.

Coming soon to a school near you.

I believe education on a government level is for the respective states, and not the federal government. I agree with you on that constitutional point.

Surprise, surprise - I disagree. A decent education is too much in the national interest to leave it up to the patchwork of the States without at least some Federal universal minimum standards. The higher (within reason) and broader, the better.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I think we need to totally rework high school education tactic. Some people just do not do well in a traditional format so we need to find those that don't do well in traditional schools. I think we should have aptitude testing and ask the student what they want to do. Once we find their skills and talents we should offer vocational training. I guy loves to work on cars but under preforms in English then put him in an eight hour a day voc training. I think you made find that we would find some hidden engineers. Think about what you need to know to build an engine. You have to know what fuel/air mixtures. You need to know what stroke and bore will provide the best performance. You need to understand compression ratios. Once you get a kid who wants to build a hot rod engine you may uncover a mechanical genius who decides to get an engineering degree.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Saying educated people don't have common sense is one of the ways Republicans justify their anti education stance. It's not quantifiable. It's merely a stupid accusation without any merit at all.

Look at Republicans now. They fight for Health Care CEOs to make tens of millions of dollars in salary they only get by "skimming" the policies of working people. Does that sound remotely like "common sense"?

A lot of engineers are out of work right now because companies have moved over seas. There they can pay workers a fraction of what they pay here and don't have to pay any health care at all.

Too late those companies realize that they can't sell their goods here because people don't have jobs and they can't sell them there because they don't make enough to afford them.

Bug off, redean. I am Republican. I do not agree with Blue Cross/ Blue Shield asshole CEO's having the ability to screw over their insureds in any manner. You have a hell of a lot more sold out, bought-off pricks in the Democratic party that assist these corporate thieves. Don't act all indignant when I tell you that you are a stupid little prick for going along with your partisan crap. You have no clue what your party currently stands for. In Iowa it is all Dem run. They went above and beyond legal means here to steal a mining operation from me because I would not sell out to corporate thugs. The Dems here were to busy sucking up to Wells Fargo for that new arena in Des Moines to prosecute the bastards for admitted fraud. It was much easier for them to have their Dem sheriff steal both my husband's equipment, raid our home and his shop and now they are getting ready to finish that off with an erroneous transfer of our house and shop. See here is the way it is with your party, "if you won't sell out we will take you out. While we are doing that to you and we are committing illegal acts we will threaten you with arrest if you protest our illegal actions against you." That is your Democratic party asshole, live with it!

Actually, the most conservative Supreme Court in years said it was ok for cities to confiscate property by a 5 to 4 decision.

Kelo v. City of New London - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I happen to believe they were wrong, but I also believe it's destructive to teach mysticism and the occult to young children so what do I know?

I love Bible quotes. I like the ones where Jesus tells you to be a good slave. The following is a good one.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Deuteronomy 22 (Blue Letter Bible: NLT - New Living Translation)

For someone who spews Bible quotes, you sure do have a potty mouth.

That's the DEM party!!?? Well I am pretty sure you will find the VERY SAME types of abuse of power. If you think it is only ONE party than you are part of the problem.


P.S. I am very sad about what you went through. That should NEVER happen in our society.

 

[Oddball]

Stupid leading question, intended to draw out as many intellectually arrested "either/or" arguments as possible.

Saying it is a right is a cheap way of shirking the costs off onto others, to pay for educating your children or those of others.

"Everyone benefits form an educated population" is an empty headed platitude that proves no point in any case.
A fed population benefits everyone too, and I haven't heard of anyone demanding that groceries be free to all who come to get them.

An ignorant population is dangerous. They are easily frightened and easily led. Take the Republican party for instance. Perfect example. Death camps. Re-education. Unplug Grandma. Who could believe that crap. Oh, that's right. Republicans.

Notice that when there is a revolution, the first people to go are the educated? Can anyone think of why that is? Because they are threatening. They know the truth. They are not so easily misled.

Another brain dead platitude and even more stupid politically motivated example.

Fabian socialists have had control over the education system for decades now, and the raw test scores of the gubmint school students have never been worse.

Is that supposed to be any kind of evidence of success??

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I am no constitutional scholar by any means but isn't education the reponsibility of the states who have their own constitutions?. In NJ EVERY child until the age of 19 (21 if classified) is GUARANTEED a free and appropriate education. The NJ Supreme Court has ruled that includes rapists child molesters and murderers. We have no expulsion. Zero tolerance for guns means a one year suspension in an alternative program paid for by the local taxpayers.

Coming soon to a school near you.

I believe education on a government level is for the respective states, and not the federal government. I agree with you on that constitutional point.

Surprise, surprise - I disagree. A decent education is too much in the national interest to leave it up to the patchwork of the States without at least some Federal universal minimum standards. The higher (within reason) and broader, the better.

On an emotional level, I understand your point. From a legal standpoint, that dog won't hunt.

Using your argument, I can state X is of national interest, and call on the feds to pay and dictation for such. Wait, that is what many in Washington do already.

So much for agreeing.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

K- 12 is neiither a right nor a privilege. It is a necessity, a requirement and an obligation. Uneducated, illiterate citizens do not a strong Republic make.
Higher education needs to be more diversified and the paid apprenticeship brought back in many fields, not just within certain unions. A four-year degree is nice to have but very expensive, and overkill for many of the service and technical jobs available.

So, were you out protesting the return of civics to the classroom? If so, all history teachers thank you. You do realize they are working at removing civics from standardized testing? The better to get ignorant cows.

If you ask me, we need more civics in the classroom. And less stupid standardized testing.

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. We need to understand that although we have differences of opinion we are ALL Americans and in our own way we want to make her better. We are no longer the leader in MANY areas and I beleive we need to work together despite our differenses to be the world leader in ALL aspects of a well run society.

 

[Oddball]

Stupid leading question, intended to draw out as many intellectually arrested "either/or" arguments as possible.

Saying it is a right is a cheap way of shirking the costs off onto others, to pay for educating your children or those of others.

"Everyone benefits form an educated population" is an empty headed platitude that proves no point in any case.
A fed population benefits everyone too, and I haven't heard of anyone demanding that groceries be free to all who come to get them.

An ignorant population is dangerous. They are easily frightened and easily led. Take the Republican party for instance. Perfect example. Death camps. Re-education. Unplug Grandma. Who could believe that crap. Oh, that's right. Republicans.

Notice that when there is a revolution, the first people to go are the educated? Can anyone think of why that is? Because they are threatening. They know the truth. They are not so easily misled.

Two can play that game, pettifog breath.

Democrats: Socialist > no...liberal...no....moderate...no....progressive.

Socialized medicine > no...single-payer...no....universal insurance...no...public option.

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Stupid leading question, intended to draw out as many intellectually arrested "either/or" arguments as possible.

Saying it is a right is a cheap way of shirking the costs off onto others, to pay for educating your children or those of others.

"Everyone benefits form an educated population" is an empty headed platitude that proves no point in any case.
A fed population benefits everyone too, and I haven't heard of anyone demanding that groceries be free to all who come to get them.

An ignorant population is dangerous. They are easily frightened and easily led. Take the Republican party for instance. Perfect example. Death camps. Re-education. Unplug Grandma. Who could believe that crap. Oh, that's right. Republicans.

Notice that when there is a revolution, the first people to go are the educated? Can anyone think of why that is? Because they are threatening. They know the truth. They are not so easily misled.

Another brain dead platitude and even more stupid politically motivated example.

Fabian socialists have had control over the education system for decades now, and the raw test scores of the gubmint school students have never been worse.

Is that supposed to be any kind of evidence of success??

So you think the answer is reserving education for the ruling class!!!! Yeah I'm sure the ultra wealthy would love to keep the rest of their fellow Americans as ignorant as possible. Just little drones to work their short worthless live to enrich the ruling class.

 

[Oddball]

Don't to try to put words in my mouth, numbnuts.

I don't buy into the intellectually arrested Hegelian dialectic, like you do.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

The fact is that although our education system SUCKS it at least provides a decent education to those who choose to get educated. I do still think my idea for vocational training has some merrit.

 

[goldcatt]

I believe education on a government level is for the respective states, and not the federal government. I agree with you on that constitutional point.

Surprise, surprise - I disagree. A decent education is too much in the national interest to leave it up to the patchwork of the States without at least some Federal universal minimum standards. The higher (within reason) and broader, the better.

On an emotional level, I understand your point. From a legal standpoint, that dog won't hunt.

Using your argument, I can state X is of national interest, and call on the feds to pay and dictation for such. Wait, that is what many in Washington do already.

So much for agreeing.

Agreement is overrated.

 

[Care4all]

i don't think education is a ''right'' as in the 10 amendment rights of the Bill of Rights in our Constitution.

But I do believe as Thomas Jefferson and some other of our founding fathers, that a well educated and informed citizenry was very, very important and critical to keeping our democratic Republic, a functioning democracy.

Jefferson wrote some of the first legislation for the beginnings of our Public School Systems that we have today...

 

[Oddball]

Here's something else to wrap one's head around:

Education in neither a right nor a privilege. it is an obligation and duty that people who make the decision to have children take on.

Little wonder that people who've had big gubmint as their defacto nanny for 7 hours a day for 12+ years look upon it as a right.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Here's something else to wrap one's head around:

Education in neither a right nor a privilege. it is an obligation and duty that people who make the decision to have children take on.

Little wonder that people who've had big gubmint as their defacto nanny for 7 hours a day for 12+ years look upon it as a right.

Dude,
You are going to create some angry waves in others, with that kind of rational tell it like it is truth.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Surprise, surprise - I disagree. A decent education is too much in the national interest to leave it up to the patchwork of the States without at least some Federal universal minimum standards. The higher (within reason) and broader, the better.

On an emotional level, I understand your point. From a legal standpoint, that dog won't hunt.

Using your argument, I can state X is of national interest, and call on the feds to pay and dictation for such. Wait, that is what many in Washington do already.

So much for agreeing.

Agreement is overrated.

Outside of "makeup sex," I agree.

 

[Oddball]

That's negative waves, man.

 

[goldcatt]

The fact is that although our education system SUCKS it at least provides a decent education to those who choose to get educated. I do still think my idea for vocational training has some merrit.

I used to make a very similar argument at the old place, Cold. It has a lot of merit. There are all different skills and types of intelligence, but education tends to be more or less one size fits all. Why not change the approach to utilize all of the assorted talents and abilities out there instead of jhust a few? Makes perfect sense to me, but good luck selling it.