Is Drilling equivalent to Welfare?

You aren't listening. I have zero problem helping those that really got a raw deal. It is not as difficult as you may think to trace the steps as why peolpe got to be where they are.

A rape victim for example obviously made no concious choice or did anything that could justify being raped. They are a true victim. They are in no way responsible for the situatoin they found themselves in.

That is unequivocally , untrue of many many people in this country. You can do it with yourself just as I can with myself and trace back the environment (which admittedly plays a significant part in) and decisions you made to see how you got to where you are. Yes a very small percentage of rich probably fell into money with absolutely no effort on their part. But statistically that is not what constitutes how the majority of the wealthy became so.

I am confident in that because I can see it everyday. Where I live isn't some anomally. How many people do you think can say they are doing every thing they can physcally, mentally, etc. to gain wealth? How many can say they are put all or even a significant amount of effort toward that end? Do you honeslty think it's over 50% or even over 15%?

The county needs ditch diggers, factory workers, customer service, teachers, salespeople, should I go on? Sure, they should have ALL become doctors, lawyers, engineers.

that's not reality.

the reality is america was great because of our great middle class. sure, we have the most millionaires but we also had a booming middle class. that doesn't have to go away but it will if the gop and corporate america can sell us on it. they already sold you.

without government regulations, we wouldn't have a great middle class. free markets won't make companies pay a decent wage.

and my ideal america is everyone dies with dignity. no not everyone is rich, but the majority of americans live comfortably and aren't in massive debt. unregulated companies wil cut our throats if they can get away with it.

i'm in sales. my company won't raise our salaries and every year they raise the quotas. so they make more and we make less. it isn't better at the competition either. and neither company is hiring.

sorry I went to colege and got into sales. typically sales are the highest paid employees in every company. we stil are, but every yr it gets harder and harder.

This is why unions got started in the first place. We took for granted what they achieved and now that none of us are union anymore, corporate america is starting to take back.

ps. IT people are taking pay cuts and at the same time bill gates says we need more visa's for indian tech help. if corporate america needs IT staff, wages should be going up. but they are not. ibm just cut wages 15 percent. so they want to outsource instead. corporate america is fucking american workers. it must not be happening to you, but it is happening on a grand scale.

all these workers are not at fault. its ok until it happens to you, but then there won't be anyone left to complain to.
 
The county needs ditch diggers, factory workers, customer service, teachers, salespeople, should I go on? Sure, they should have ALL become doctors, lawyers, engineers.

that's not reality.

the reality is america was great because of our great middle class. sure, we have the most millionaires but we also had a booming middle class. that doesn't have to go away but it will if the gop and corporate america can sell us on it. they already sold you.

without government regulations, we wouldn't have a great middle class. free markets won't make companies pay a decent wage.

and my ideal america is everyone dies with dignity. no not everyone is rich, but the majority of americans live comfortably and aren't in massive debt. unregulated companies wil cut our throats if they can get away with it.

i'm in sales. my company won't raise our salaries and every year they raise the quotas. so they make more and we make less. it isn't better at the competition either. and neither company is hiring.

sorry I went to colege and got into sales. typically sales are the highest paid employees in every company. we stil are, but every yr it gets harder and harder.

This is why unions got started in the first place. We took for granted what they achieved and now that none of us are union anymore, corporate america is starting to take back.

ps. IT people are taking pay cuts and at the same time bill gates says we need more visa's for indian tech help. if corporate america needs IT staff, wages should be going up. but they are not. ibm just cut wages 15 percent. so they want to outsource instead. corporate america is fucking american workers. it must not be happening to you, but it is happening on a grand scale.

all these workers are not at fault. its ok until it happens to you, but then there won't be anyone left to complain to.


Now I get some of your rage, I worked in sales, selling computers when I was younger, the pressure sucked ass and drove me nuts.
 
I fell sorry for, and am willing to help those less well off than me, just not Bobo, that guys a whinny little baby.

no, I am willing, not you. I am arguing for them and you are arguing they did it to themselves. I don't need your help. actually, I need you to understand when it is us vs them, you have more in common with me than you do with them. unless your job is recession proof, you didn't buy a home that lost value, you don't work for money but instead your money works for you, goods and services don't cost more in your neighborhood, you get paid in euros, your stocks are booming, your job can't be outsourced and your healthcare costs aren't outrageous. then you are one of them.

but don't go saying you have any compassion when you've been arguing that millions of americans are just lazy, responsibe for what's going on and stupid.

you go back to school and pay $40k and start all over again schmuck
 
no, I am willing, not you. I am arguing for them and you are arguing they did it to themselves. I don't need your help. actually, I need you to understand when it is us vs them, you have more in common with me than you do with them. unless your job is recession proof, you didn't buy a home that lost value, you don't work for money but instead your money works for you, goods and services don't cost more in your neighborhood, you get paid in euros, your stocks are booming, your job can't be outsourced and your healthcare costs aren't outrageous. then you are one of them.

but don't go saying you have any compassion when you've been arguing that millions of americans are just lazy, responsibe for what's going on and stupid.

you go back to school and pay $40k and start all over again schmuck

You do not know shit about me pal. The only people I said did it to themselves is some of the people currently having trouble making their house payments. I am sorry but when I see people who make 60,000 a year as couple buying a 480,000 dollar house, I call it for what it is. Irresponsible.

I never made such statements about poor people in general. I have never said millions of Americans are just lazy. You are making shit up now and I do not appreciate it at all. Isn't posting blatant lies about other members against the rules or some shit. Please show me where I have ever said any of the shit you just claimed I said, or shut your god damn lie spewing trap.

I also never said my stocks are booming, I said I made some money in this current market.

man you are a real piece of work pal.
 
Sales=ulcers


I bitch about my 401k, home value, the debt, iraq, gas, value of the dollar, etc too guys. lol. and I bitched about the gop back in the 90's when sales were easier.

hey, thanks for chatting. my coworkers can't believe I like arguing politics this much. look, its 1 30 am. lol

we are all americans and I really wish well for all of us, regardless of what I have said in the past.

I just want everyone o be happy. I know that's impossible, but maybe 10 percent more than are happy now and things will be back to normal.

good nite.
 
I bitch about my 401k, home value, the debt, iraq, gas, value of the dollar, etc too guys. lol. and I bitched about the gop back in the 90's when sales were easier.

hey, thanks for chatting. my coworkers can't believe I like arguing politics this much. look, its 1 30 am. lol

we are all americans and I really wish well for all of us, regardless of what I have said in the past.

I just want everyone o be happy. I know that's impossible, but maybe 10 percent more than are happy now and things will be back to normal.

good nite.

Sure go to bed with out answering my last post. I want to know why you are making shit up about me. Claiming I said shit I never said.

What a piece of work. Get some sleep you clearly need it.
 
Sure go to bed with out answering my last post. I want to know why you are making shit up about me. Claiming I said shit I never said.

What a piece of work. Get some sleep you clearly need it.

you are a terrorist ruining the county from within.

you said I said something I didn't. please provide proof I did liar.
 
Sure go to bed with out answering my last post. I want to know why you are making shit up about me. Claiming I said shit I never said.

What a piece of work. Get some sleep you clearly need it.



and if I did its because all you assholes sound the same. I confused you with another prick maybe.
 
The county needs ditch diggers, factory workers, customer service, teachers, salespeople, should I go on? Sure, they should have ALL become doctors, lawyers, engineers.

that's not reality.

the reality is america was great because of our great middle class. sure, we have the most millionaires but we also had a booming middle class. that doesn't have to go away but it will if the gop and corporate america can sell us on it. they already sold you.

without government regulations, we wouldn't have a great middle class. free markets won't make companies pay a decent wage.

and my ideal america is everyone dies with dignity. no not everyone is rich, but the majority of americans live comfortably and aren't in massive debt. unregulated companies wil cut our throats if they can get away with it.

i'm in sales. my company won't raise our salaries and every year they raise the quotas. so they make more and we make less. it isn't better at the competition either. and neither company is hiring.

sorry I went to colege and got into sales. typically sales are the highest paid employees in every company. we stil are, but every yr it gets harder and harder.

This is why unions got started in the first place. We took for granted what they achieved and now that none of us are union anymore, corporate america is starting to take back.

ps. IT people are taking pay cuts and at the same time bill gates says we need more visa's for indian tech help. if corporate america needs IT staff, wages should be going up. but they are not. ibm just cut wages 15 percent. so they want to outsource instead. corporate america is fucking american workers. it must not be happening to you, but it is happening on a grand scale.

all these workers are not at fault. its ok until it happens to you, but then there won't be anyone left to complain to.

Contrary to popular opinion the business or the company you work for does't owe you anything above and beyond what is agreed upon in your contract. There is a contract between you and the company you work for that says if you do x they will give you money. They don't owe you a raise because you grace them with your presence for another year. If you think you're working for an evil greedy company, don't work for them. Again you are placing limitation on yourslef and making excuses when you have far more control over your employment situatoin then you are willing to take responsibility for.

I have never heard such a typically liberal mantra as yours when you say we need government regulation for this and for that. Government regulation is part of the problem, not the solution and with it the market will be unable to correct itself. Government refulation artificially inflates the prices of goods and service. IT MAKES THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE.
 
Contrary to popular opinion the business or the company you work for does't owe you anything above and beyond what is agreed upon in your contract. There is a contract between you and the company you work for that says if you do x they will give you money. They don't owe you a raise because you grace them with your presence for another year. If you think you're working for an evil greedy company, don't work for them. Again you are placing limitation on yourslef and making excuses when you have far more control over your employment situatoin then you are willing to take responsibility for.

I have never heard such a typically liberal mantra as yours when you say we need government regulation for this and for that. Government regulation is part of the problem, not the solution and with it the market will be unable to correct itself. Government refulation artificially inflates the prices of goods and service. IT MAKES THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE.
\
NOPE

Government de-regulations got us in the mess we are in. You are brainwashed with right wing propoganda.

And I've heard it all before. Your company doesn't owe me, blabla.

I wish your company would pay you $1 an hour and then you can go look for another job. And when every company in America is doing the same thing, we no longer become a successful middle class.

I'm not complaining for myself idiots. I'm complaining for what's happening all over America.

You guys are masters at not listening and spinning the conversations in circles. I'm getting dizzy. Later. I got to go make some paper. That's money.
 
Unlike your liberal delusional mind, I don't believe we are a victim to fate. At least in the US, we control what we do or don't do.

When did I say I was a victim to fate? If that were my belief, I wouldn't argue politics because then I'd think that whatever will be will be. I believe we can change our destiny.
 
\
NOPE

Government de-regulations got us in the mess we are in. You are brainwashed with right wing propoganda.

And I've heard it all before. Your company doesn't owe me, blabla.

I wish your company would pay you $1 an hour and then you can go look for another job. And when every company in America is doing the same thing, we no longer become a successful middle class.

I'm not complaining for myself idiots. I'm complaining for what's happening all over America.

You guys are masters at not listening and spinning the conversations in circles. I'm getting dizzy. Later. I got to go make some paper. That's money.


I'm listening quite well. And I here you blamining everybody but yourself for your position in life.

When government regulation is in place it puts an added financial burden on companies to comply with them. A burden that is invariably passed on to the consumer. So what's your plan? Tell comanies they just have to eat it?
 
So no proof of your original delusion or your morphed delusion, I see....

The offer still stands, show proof the US has been massively importing oil from Iraq or that Exxon has been massively exporting oil from Iraq for profits? If you can't prove either you may want to see a mental health professional to deal with your schitzo delusions....

i never said the us imports oil from iraq. so you pussies cryin because i apparently put words in your mouth are just projecting again. You can't help it. When you don't have a good argument, you get mad and start attacking. PUSSIES!!!
 
Contrary to popular opinion the business or the company you work for does't owe you anything above and beyond what is agreed upon in your contract. There is a contract between you and the company you work for that says if you do x they will give you money. They don't owe you a raise because you grace them with your presence for another year. If you think you're working for an evil greedy company, don't work for them. Again you are placing limitation on yourslef and making excuses when you have far more control over your employment situatoin then you are willing to take responsibility for.

I have never heard such a typically liberal mantra as yours when you say we need government regulation for this and for that. Government regulation is part of the problem, not the solution and with it the market will be unable to correct itself. Government refulation artificially inflates the prices of goods and service. IT MAKES THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE.

Employees are the group most responsible for a company's success, since a business is essentially nothing more than a collection of individuals gathered together for a common purpose and with a certain amount of infrastructure and capital. Without employees (and I include management in this category), a business literally could not exist. Profitable companies do not spontaneously form out of piles of equipment, software, and money.

An important caveat, however. Companies owe an ethical responsibility to employees only insofar as the employees contribute to the success of the company. It is not unethical to fire an underperforming employee. It is also important to keep in mind that changing industry or economic conditions may force a company to do things (like lay people off) which hurt employees, but are necessary to the survival of the business.
 
Democracy - the idea of government of, by, and for the people - has been twisted and perverted and essentially taken over by entities driven by a single value: profit. And it's happening all over the world.

Which is not to say that profit is a bad thing. Carl, for example, was happy that the company he worked for made enough profit that its owners would keep it in business and pay him a salary. Profit can drive healthy economies, and has its rightful place in the halls of business.

But profit has no place in the halls of governments, which were created by and for living humans. When corporations took over writing the rules that "we, the people" originally put in place to regulate and control profit-driven enterprises, then a sickness known as corporatism seized control of governments, and their people were the first ones to suffer for it. Virtually all legislation in nations that still call themselves democracies now passes through the filters of corporate lobbyists and corporate-funded think-tanks: democracy itself is at risk.

The main engine of corporatism - the chink in governmental law that makes it possible for corporations to so corrupt governmental processes - is an obscure legal doctrine first embraced in 1886 by the Reporter of the U.S. Supreme Court called "corporate personhood." This doctrine suggests that non-living, non-breathing entities called corporations should have the same rights the Founders of democracy defined (in the US in the "Bill of Rights") first for white men, and were extended after the U.S. Civil War to freed slaves, and to women and more fully to people of color in the 1960s via several different anti-discrimination laws.

It turns out that this doctrine of corporations as "persons" was a mistake from the beginning: while the reporter wrote that the Court had agreed with corporate personhood, the court itself, and its chief justice, had specifically and repeatedly ruled against it. (You'll find a photograph of the actual handwritten letter from Morrison R. Waite, the U.S. Supreme Court's Chief Justice, on my website: he said: "we avoided meeting the constitutional question [of corporate personhood] in the decision.")

But because of the words of the reporter, and the promotion of those words by corporations in the decades following 1886, corporations have seized so many "human rights" that they can now prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from performing inspections of their factories by claiming 4th Amendment "privacy rights." They claim they can give unlimited money to politicians - a process that before 1886 was called bribery and was criminal behavior for corporations in virtually all states - by claiming that they are entitled to 1st Amendment free speech rights. They claim that if the majority of the citizens of a local community do not want them to do business in that community, then they are the victims of "discrimination" and can sue that community and its elected officials.

Even though corporations are not alive and cannot vote, they claim the right to influence elections. Even though they do not need fresh water to drink or clean air to breathe, they claim the right to influence the government agencies that were created to regulate them. Even though they have no color or creed or religion, they claim that human people who speak against them are violating their civil rights. Even though they can live for hundreds of years and are not harmed by asbestos, arsenic, tobacco, or other toxins, they claim the human right of privacy to not disclose to governments or to workers and consumers the dangers they know about their own products.

So we now face a crisis that is at once environmental, political, and spiritual/moral. According to the AFL-CIO in a report released for April 28ths Workers Memorial Day, "On an average day in 2004, 152 workers lost their lives as a result of workplace injuries and diseases and another 11,780 were injured." The rate of death and disability among workers has been climbing since Bush became president for the first time in decades, in large part because funding for OSHA and mine safety have been cut. At the same time, Bill Frist and Senate and House Republicans want to wipe out asbestos victim's right to sue for damages (they promote it as "helping asbestos victims"), to protect companies like Halliburton that have huge asbestos liabilities.

How can we best return to our governments the essential values of protecting the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" of their people, and separate from our governments contamination by the profit motive, which rightly should remain in the realm of business and not politics? How do we awaken our voters from the spiritual malaise of consumerism run amok? And what are the most appropriate and practical and positive steps we can take now to remedy the damage already done to our air, food, water, and other commons by the recent insinuation of corporatism into our legislatures and high political offices?

The first part of the answer is for us to awaken to the very real moral and spiritual dilemma we face. This a moral and spiritual dilemma because it transcends politics: it literally means life or death for our citizens and our planet.

Next, we must show up at the ballot box and send clear messages to our elected officials to correct this illness in our body politic. And, then (or perhaps concurrently), we must convince our governments to use their powers of persuasion (through policies like tax breaks and other incentives) to promote renewable and non-toxic forms of energy, agriculture, and medicine, and re-empower our regulatory agencies which have been so badly infiltrated and taken over by the very corporations they were put in place to constrain.

If we do this, and do it soon, our children may still inherit a world that can is just and decent and healthy.

And if you'd like to say a prayer for Carl, I know him well enough to believe that he'd appreciate it. I was his first child.
 
so No Proof Of Your Original Delusion Or Your Morphed Delusion, I See....

The Offer Still Stands, Show Proof The Us Has Been Massively Importing Oil From Iraq Or That Exxon Has Been Massively Exporting Oil From Iraq For Profits? If You Can't Prove Either You May Want To See A Mental Health Professional To Deal With Your Schitzo Delusions....

Fyi:


baghdad: Iraq's Oil Output Shot Up In November 2007 And The Ministry In Charge Of Production Forecast On Wednesday That It Will Reach 3 Million Barrels Per Day By The End Of 2008.

ministry Spokesman Assem Jihad Said Iraq's Average Production Was 2.4 Million Barrels Per Day In November. Exports Stood At Around 1.9 Million Barrels Per Day, Sold At An Average Price Of Us$83.87 Per Barrel.

in January, Output Was 1.9 Million Barrels. There Were No Figures Available For December Or Detailed Month-by-month Figures For The Rest Of The Year.

since The 2003 U.s.-led Invasion That Removed Saddam From Power, Iraqi Production Has Mostly Hovered Between 1.7 Million And 2 Million Barrels Per Day, According To The International Energy Agency. It's Prewar Production Was 2.58 Million Barrels Per Day.
jihad Added That The Exports, About 1.6 Million Bpd From Basra In The South And More Than 300,000 Bpd From Kirkuk In The North Had Grossed A Total Of Us$4.94 Billion In November, Which Made Up More Than 90 Percent Of Iraq's Revenues.
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so No Proof Of Your Original Delusion Or Your Morphed Delusion, I See....

The Offer Still Stands, Show Proof The Us Has Been Massively Importing Oil From Iraq Or That Exxon Has Been Massively Exporting Oil From Iraq For Profits? If You Can't Prove Either You May Want To See A Mental Health Professional To Deal With Your Schitzo Delusions....

Fyi:

baghdad: Iraq's Oil Output Shot Up In November 2007 And The Ministry In Charge Of Production Forecast On Wednesday That It Will Reach 3 Million Barrels Per Day By The End Of 2008.

ministry Spokesman Assem Jihad Said Iraq's Average Production Was 2.4 Million Barrels Per Day In November. Exports Stood At Around 1.9 Million Barrels Per Day, Sold At An Average Price Of Us$83.87 Per Barrel.

in January, Output Was 1.9 Million Barrels. There Were No Figures Available For December Or Detailed Month-by-month Figures For The Rest Of The Year.

since The 2003 U.s.-led Invasion That Removed Saddam From Power, Iraqi Production Has Mostly Hovered Between 1.7 Million And 2 Million Barrels Per Day, According To The International Energy Agency. It's Prewar Production Was 2.58 Million Barrels Per Day.
jihad Added That The Exports, About 1.6 Million Bpd From Basra In The South And More Than 300,000 Bpd From Kirkuk In The North Had Grossed A Total Of Us$4.94 Billion In November, Which Made Up More Than 90 Percent Of Iraq's Revenues.
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Now the oil companies are responsible for the weak dollar? Wow, you need to pop your medication....:lol:
The USD is weak compared too......the Euro dollar? Who cares?
Do not buy Euro products and start buying American products, we will see the value of the USD increase.
 
I'm listening quite well. And I here you blamining everybody but yourself for your position in life.

When government regulation is in place it puts an added financial burden on companies to comply with them. A burden that is invariably passed on to the consumer. So what's your plan? Tell comanies they just have to eat it?

I'm in a pretty good position in life. See, you neo nuts always think Liberals are complaining for themselves, when that's not the case. I make more than enough to save for retirement. Things just could be better. I make more than enough to pay the outragous gas prices. I didn't cause gas gouging. I bought my home 12 years ago for CHEAP. I can wait out the sub prime crash that the gop caused.

You are the ones making excuses for politicians who you admit are greedy and corrupt.

So now you can fall back on the argument that, "democrats are just as bad as Republicans", because you really know not what you are talking about. LOL.

I have a 401K. I supposed it is my fault that my stocks took a dump? Or it's the Unions fault? Or it is lazy American workers fault? You are the one blaming everyone else, except for the real culprits. YOu are gullable and a house slave. Please don't vote!
 

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