Is Drilling equivalent to Welfare?

[midcan5]

I have been thinking about the price of oil, and the whimpering from the republicans and others. Oil prices are driven by supply, demand, and competition. Demand is driven by lifestyle. Now if a women cannot make a mistake and welfare participants cannot make a mistake then Americans who have made bad decisions regarding energy should suffer the same social darwinistic plight. So I guess I don't understand why republicans are blaming drilling, aka ruining our planet, for their own bad decisions.

Just as republicans and others complain about taxes, shouldn't citizens of the world complain about wasteful lifestyles that have the potential to ruin mother earth? It would seem from a moral point of view to be a fair conclusion. So again let me repeat my question, if we are irresponsible with energy then why the complaints? Didn't we create this situations? Answers welcome.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have been thinking about the price of oil, and the whimpering from the republicans and others. Oil prices are driven by supply, demand, and competition. Demand is driven by lifestyle. Now if a women cannot make a mistake and welfare participants cannot make a mistake then Americans who have made bad decisions regarding energy should suffer the same social darwinistic plight. So I guess I don't understand why republicans are blaming drilling, aka ruining our planet, for their own bad decisions.

Just as republicans and others complain about taxes, shouldn't citizens of the world complain about wasteful lifestyles that have the potential to ruin mother earth? It would seem from a moral point of view to be a fair conclusion. So again let me repeat my question, if we are irresponsible with energy then why the complaints? Didn't we create this situations? Answers welcome.

Yup, sounds just like your ignorant pap. So using your logic we should allow the world to starve rather then provide aid. I mean they got themselves in the mess they are in right?

Your analogy is ignorant. We have available the oil we need, yet we should ignore it because YOU don't like drilling. The impact from drilling is so small now as to be meaningless. We had several cat 5 hurricanes in the Gulf, remind me of all the oil spills from those rigs out there? We have nuclear technology, remind how we should not use it cause you don't like it?

Prices are high because of speculation. There is more than enough oil for now and the future. We should use OUR oil so we are not paying the Arabs for theirs.

You irritate the hell out of me. Take your socialist ideals and find a Socialist country and LIVE your dream. And when it is NOT all you envisioned do NOT come crawling back to the US.

 

[midcan5]

Yup, sounds just like your ignorant pap. So using your logic we should allow the world to starve rather then provide aid. I mean they got themselves in the mess they are in right?

Your analogy is ignorant. We have available the oil we need, yet we should ignore it because YOU don't like drilling. The impact from drilling is so small now as to be meaningless. We had several cat 5 hurricanes in the Gulf, remind me of all the oil spills from those rigs out there? We have nuclear technology, remind how we should not use it cause you don't like it?

That's a rather interesting and hypocritical reply, you didn't hear about Reagan's welfare mom, or back alley abortions, or all these foreclosures? you surely use that thinking - social darwinism - in many of your replies, seems you don't recognize it when its form changes slightly. Analogy holds and shortsighted policies like ruining the earth for a little oil remain stupid.

 

[BrianH]

That's a rather interesting and hypocritical reply, you didn't hear about Reagan's welfare mom, or back alley abortions, or all these foreclosures? you surely use that thinking - social darwinism - in many of your replies, seems you don't recognize it when its form changes slightly. Analogy holds and shortsighted policies like ruining the earth for a little oil remain stupid.

It doesn't matter, Gas prices as of now are not being driven by demand. Is it even conceiveable to say that demand has changed so much as to raise the price from 90 dollars per barrel in December of 2007 to 130-140 dollars per barrel now? It took years for it to rise to 90 dollars per barrel. We've seemed to have achieved it in 6 months. There is something illegal going on IMO. I heard someone say on C-Span the other day that we have enough oil here in the U.S. to last us another 30 years. IMO, this is more than enough to keep us stable until we can find alternative energy sources. And for the record, this is not strictly a republican problem, this is an everybody problem.

 

[midcan5]

BrianH, I agree and it behooves us to do something, but can one imagine Cheney/Bush or McCain doing anything? I even doubt much effort from Obama should prices fall which they will. In Philly, the decayed areas are being rebuilt as the new preppies move in and renovate, happened under Carter too.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Well, if we just sit here in limbo and do nothing about our energy we're gonna be in some serious trouble soon. I hate the "can't do" attitude that this country has become accustomed to. We can solve our problems but too many politicians are happy creating wedge issues to drive one against the other and we're the unfortunate beneficiaries of such lunacy. The problem is Washington.

 

[Annie]

Well, if we just sit here in limbo and do nothing about our energy we're gonna be in some serious trouble soon. I hate the "can't do" attitude that this country has become accustomed to. We can solve our problems but too many politicians are happy creating wedge issues to drive one against the other and we're the unfortunate beneficiaries of such lunacy. The problem is Washington.

I agree, the taxes of both feds and states should be removed. Drilling in all reasonable venues should be explored. Immediate plans for building refineries should commence. Incentives for alternative energies should be laid out.

 

[Yurt]

move to russia midcan, the state owns most everything, it is your utopia, bye now

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

welfare is stealing from others, allowing oil companies to drill new wells isn't, hope that helps

of course in the meantime if $4/gallon is the market price for gasoline, then so be it

 

[jreeves]

I have been thinking about the price of oil, and the whimpering from the republicans and others. Oil prices are driven by supply, demand, and competition. Demand is driven by lifestyle. Now if a women cannot make a mistake and welfare participants cannot make a mistake then Americans who have made bad decisions regarding energy should suffer the same social darwinistic plight. So I guess I don't understand why republicans are blaming drilling, aka ruining our planet, for their own bad decisions.

Just as republicans and others complain about taxes, shouldn't citizens of the world complain about wasteful lifestyles that have the potential to ruin mother earth? It would seem from a moral point of view to be a fair conclusion. So again let me repeat my question, if we are irresponsible with energy then why the complaints? Didn't we create this situations? Answers welcome.

No, drilling is a commonsense approach when coupled with developing alternate energy sources.


But couldn't it be said that welfare participants are partly to blame for high gas prices? Since the price of oil is directly correlated with the value of the dollar and social spending is the largest expenditure by the federal government. In part, social spending has caused huge federal defecits which leads to a weaker dollar.

 

[editec]

RT SGT opines

You irritate the hell out of me. Take your socialist ideals and find a Socialist country and LIVE your dream. And when it is NOT all you envisioned do NOT come crawling back to the US.

How hypocritical of YOU to complain about his socialism when you are the economic creature of socialism.

When have you ever survived by capitalism RETIRED SGT GNY?

You were a beneficiary of military industrial socialism when you were in the military, and you are benefitting from that same socialism now, too.

Your every check is socialism writ large, sport.

Unlike many of us who actually had to deal with the visicitudes of a captialist economy, you don't..

 

[midcan5]

I agree, the taxes of both feds and states should be removed. Drilling in all reasonable venues should be explored. Immediate plans for building refineries should commence. Incentives for alternative energies should be laid out.

All that does is ruin the earth and push the problem to the future and our children. We need to create competition for oil today.

 

[midcan5]

welfare is stealing from others, allowing oil companies to drill new wells isn't, hope that helps

of course in the meantime if $4/gallon is the market price for gasoline, then so be it

Not really, welfare can be lots of things but for the sake of argument let's say it is irresponsible actions that leads to bad consequences. Same holds true for our use of oil. Suvs, suburban sprawl, lack of public transportation, lack of trains, lack of bike paths, etc. Irresponsible behavior is irresponsible behavior.

Yes, so be it since there is plenty now.

 

[midcan5]

Unlike many of us who actually had to deal with the visicitudes of a captialist economy, you don't..

I agree with you again today.

 

[Chris]

RT SGT opines



How hypocritical of YOU to complain about his socialism when you are the economic creature of socialism.

When have you ever survived by capitalism RETIRED SGT GNY?

You were a beneficiary of military industrial socialism when you were in the military, and you are benefitting from that same socialism now, too.

Your every check is socialism writ large, sport.

Unlike many of us who actually had to deal with the visicitudes of a captialist economy, you don't..

That's like my 87 year old father complaining about welfare....meanwhile he gets a government check every month.

 

[jreeves]

No, drilling is a commonsense approach when coupled with developing alternate energy sources.


But couldn't it be said that welfare participants are partly to blame for high gas prices? Since the price of oil is directly correlated with the value of the dollar and social spending is the largest expenditure by the federal government. In part, social spending has caused huge federal defecits which leads to a weaker dollar.

Social spending has, in part, led to higher oil prices by devaluing the dollar.

 

[midcan5]

Social spending has, in part, led to higher oil prices by devaluing the dollar.

Don't you think Iraq was the biggest part of that?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

All that does is ruin the earth and push the problem to the future and our children. We need to create competition for oil today.

Offshore drilling is good for the environment because drilling rigs act as artificial reefs. There's a reason why Louisiana supplies the most seafood while simultaneously having the most offshore drilling.

Suvs, suburban sprawl, lack of public transportation, lack of trains, lack of bike paths, etc. Irresponsible behavior is irresponsible behavior.

I agree that there is a problem with all of this and things need to change. It didn't happen by accident though; deliberate government policy created it.

That's like my 87 year old father complaining about welfare....meanwhile he gets a government check every month.

The difference being that he paid into SS for 40+ years, so he's not being unreasonable to want some of his money back. Of course he wouldn't need the SS check to begin with if he had been able to keep all his money during his working years.

 

[editec]

The difference being that he paid into SS for 40+ years, so he's not being unreasonable to want some of his money back. Of course he wouldn't need the SS check to begin with if he had been able to keep all his money during his working years.

Social security is not welfare.

Neither is working for the military or getting a retirement check.

They are the social contracts that we signed up for, and some of us are now reaping the benefits of that contract.

They ARE a type of socialism, though, no less than outright welfare is.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Social security is not welfare.

Neither is working for the military or getting a retirement check.

They are the social contracts that we signed up for, and some of us are now reaping the benefits of that contract.

They ARE a type of socialism, though, no less than outright welfare is.

Wrong again.The retirement check is not even remotely like welfare and is not socialism. It is payment agreed to for preforming a job or jobs for x amount of time.

Welfare is money taken from those that work to give to those that do not.

Social Security is a pay system also but not one of choice. Took my doctors years to get me to accept Social Security, they finally got me to kinda see, since I paid all my working life I was allowed to use the system.
I am like your old guy. Given a choice, I would vote Social Security out of existance.