Is Christmas a Christian (or Catholic) Holiday?

[GLASNOST]

Definitely pagan with a lot of Hokuspokus as well. Listen to the camels "clop-clop" in the sand! No one can "clop-clop" in the sand and camels don't have shoes anyway. They don't "clop-clop" ... even on stones!

 

[evenifigoalone]

"extremely unconcerned", huh? I'd call that a contradiction in terms particularly considering how many posts you're submitted to the thread on that very issue.

That cannot be a statement from a person who's extremely unconcerned. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"! Your defence of the purity of Christmas is weak. Very weak.

Only happened to see your post because I was seeing if another member I had on ignore responded to my response to their post from a couple hours back. (I was curious what they had to say about the verses I provided.)

But ok, I'll bite cuz at least this time you're on topic. I have not claimed, nor intended to claim, that Christmas is "pure". That is a strawman--in fact I said in my first post that pagan rituals or symbols were involved.
As to whether pagan imagery was heavily involved in it's creation, you're probably correct. But that doesn't mean Christmas didn't have a Christian origin--it was created by the Catholic church as a Christian holiday, regardless of whether or not pagan symbolism and rituals were allowed and/or heavily involved.

As to my not caring, what I mean is it doesn't affect my conscience when it comes to celebrating Christmas. But you know that already, you're just being an asshat.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I find this piece interesting and tellworthy, because nowadays many denie the christian roots of Christmas they just equal it with ancient pagan roots, and consumerism. They want to erase the Christ out of Christmas. Many just say "But Christmas is pagan not Christian."

Read Catholic Roots of Christmas


Catholic Roots of Christmas
December 19, 2020
Christmas honors the pivotal day which altered all of history. Christians around the world celebrate Christmas as the birthday of Christ Jesus. On this day, God Incarnate departed the hidden tabernacle of Mary’s womb into the blissful embrace of His mother’s arms. And she, in turn, presented this unblemished child, this Divine Gift, to all the world that we might adore Him as “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

As with any child’s arrival, there are many preparations to be made before welcoming the new family member; an expecting family gathers bathing items, blankets, and a collection of cozy outfits. Faithful members of the Catholic Christian family prepare for Christ’s coming by observing the season of Advent.

Advent is a time of joyful anticipation in which the faithful prepare their hearts for the most special arrival of the Divine Infant. Formally introduced by the Council of Tours in 567 AD, the Advent season begins four Sundays prior to Christmas Day. This period provides a precursor to the special holy day when the Light of the World shines amidst the darkness, the Sign of Hope dispels all despair.

One Catholic tradition orienting believers toward Christ’s coming is the Nativity Scene. This practice harkens back to Medieval times when in 1223, St. Francis of Assisi directed a live nativity scene as a form of public remembrance honoring Christ’s birth. St. Francis wanted to bring the Gospels to life, assigning parts for Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, and others so that in witnessing this reenactment, all people would learn the extraordinary story of God’s love for mankind. Often the nativity creche remains empty until Christmas Eve as a reminder that the faithful eagerly await the Christ child. And when the Divine Infant arrives, how much greater is the joy during the Christmas vigil when Baby Jesus joins the Holy Family and all humanity!

When the faithful prepare their hearts properly, the blessings of Christmas may be appreciated in full. “We Christians are called to safeguard and spread the joy of waiting,” Pope Francis declared in a Vatican address. Additionally, much as the faithful await Christ’s birth in remembrance of the first Christmas, the Catholic liturgical readings point the faithful toward awaiting Christ’s ultimate return upon Judgement Day.

According to Catholic tradition, the rejoicing of Christ’s coming lasts considerably longer than one great day. Rather, it stretches from the Christmas vigil Mass until the Feast of the Epiphany, sometimes called Three Kings’ Day.

Why did the Church choose to celebrate Christ’s birth on December 25? The most direct answer is that according to the Roman calendar, this day marked the winter solstice. Saint Augustine explained the significance of this day in remembering Christ’s coming, writing, “on the day which is the shortest in our earthly reckoning and from which subsequent days begin to increase in length. He, therefore, who bent low and lifted us up chose the shortest day, yet the one whence light begins to increase.”

The most excellent Catholic tradition of celebrating Christmas as a family is attending Holy Mass together. Even young adults who may have strayed from observing other tenets of their Catholic faith will often return to Mass with their families in order to observe the sacred Feast of the Nativity.

Christmas is a rare time when the Mass readings differ according to the order in which the Mass is offered. There are four distinct Christmas Masses. The Vigil Mass is offered at the start of Christmas Eve. The Mass of the angels is a popular celebration, offered at midnight. The Dawn Mass is called the Mass of the Shepherds; it is offered early morning. Finally, on Christmas Day, the priest offers the Mass of the Divine Word.

The Christmas octave is punctuated with a feast that originally honored Christ’s circumcision. In present times, the Catholic Church commemorates the first day of the year as the Feast of Mary, Mother of God. This holy day respects Mary’s unique human privilege of forming Christ physically and spiritually before releasing Him into the world to fulfill His divine salvific work.

The end of the Christmas season points toward this extraordinary mission for which God entered the world. According to Catholic tradition, the Magi, called the Three Kings, spent 12 days following a star. The brilliant star led them to Bethlehem, where Jesus had just been born. The Wise Men—Melchior, Caspar, and Balthazar—presented three symbolic gifts to the Holy Family for their newborn son. The kings presented to the Divine Child gold to honor His kingship, frankincense to honor His priesthood, and myrrh to honor His humanity.

Many families around the world present gifts to one another either in celebration of Christmas Day or in commemoration of the Three Kings. The faithful fulfill the Christmas spirit when offering their own hearts to the Divine Messiah who humbled Himself to enter the world as a small child.

Article written by Myriah C. Boudreaux for Christian Catholic Media

Myriah C. Boudreaux graduated from Franciscan University of Steubenville with a BA in Psychology. Soon after, she left her native Southern California home to marry a FUS alumnus, start a family, settle in Bayou Country with her Cajun husband, and begin a career homeschooling their ever-growing family. With seven children ranging from ages 21 – 2, her practical understanding of Heavenly Father's patience, love, and mercy is continually expanding.

Christians "stole" many holidays, because it was easier to get people to convert that way.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Christians "stole" many holidays, because it was easier to get people to convert that way.

That is my understanding of the issue. Based on what I know I wouldn't say that the holiday itself was stolen, more than they took (perhaps heavy) elements of an already existing pagan holiday to make something that was a mixture of both traditions and said "hey, here's a Christian solution so you don't have to give up all your pagan ways"

 

[GLASNOST]

Only happened to see your post because I was seeing if another member I had on ignore responded to my response to their post from a couple hours back. (I was curious what they had to say about the verses I provided.)

So, you've not only lost both the debate on Christmas - and the one that you yourself created without any provocation from me - but now you cannot even being honest about either of them.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So, you've not only lost both the debate on Christmas - and the one that you yourself created without any provocation from me - but now you cannot even being honest about either of them.

Whatever floats your delusion I guess. If you don't stop being a smug, logical fallacy loving asshole I'll stop engaging with you for good.
You seem like you know what you're talking about, I'll give you that, but you need to work on some stuff. Like misrepresenting other people's arguments just to make yourself feel superior.

 

[GLASNOST]

Christians "stole" many holidays, because it was easier to get people to convert that way.

I don't really think they thought of it as "converting" but rather "amending". The basis of Christianity was to claim that the Messiah had already arrived despite the fact that Jesus fulfilled none of the Judaic prophecies. I am fairly certain that those who followed Jesus thought of themselves as Jews in the same way that Protestants (Mormons, Jehova's Witness, etc.) think of themselves as Christians. They all stem from amending Judaism.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Whatever floats your delusion I guess. If you don't stop being a smug, logical fallacy loving asshole I'll stop engaging with you for good.
You seem like you know what you're talking about, I'll give you that, but you need to work on some stuff. Like misrepresenting other people's arguments just to make yourself feel superior.

Also, what a fucking laugh that you declare me to have lost a debate where 99% of your rebuttals have not addressed the actual issue and upwards of 60% have just been smack talk. Lost? Yeah--you have, maybe.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That is my understanding of the issue. Based on what I know I wouldn't say that the holiday itself was stolen, more than they took (perhaps heavy) elements of an already existing pagan holiday to make something that was a mixture of both traditions and said "hey, here's a Christian solution so you don't have to give up all your pagan ways"

Yes, I use the word "stolen" only lightly, it's a common thing for culture to change in such ways. But really modern Christmas has more to do with Dickens and the Germans than it does with Christianity itself.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't really think they thought of it as "converting" but rather "amending". The basis of Christianity was to claim that the Messiah had already arrived despite the fact that Jesus fulfilled none of the Judaic prophecies. I am fairly certain that those who followed Jesus thought of themselves as Jews in the same way that Protestants (Mormons, Jehova's Witness, etc.) think of themselves as Christians. They all stem from amending Judaism.

Well, I don't know how they did it. The religious believed that others must be Christians and set about changing them from "Pagan" religions.

 

[Colin norris]

We do the same and we are his children. The process in total is called "metabolism". We need energy to be in a dynamic equlibrium here in this place where we are now.

The process is call delusions. There's nothing dynamic about that rubbish regardless of how many fancy words you use to describe it.
It's bullshit.

 

[evenifigoalone]

The process is call delusions. There's nothing dynamic about that rubbish regardless of how many fancy words you use to describe it.
It's bullshit.

Colin, eat a snickers. You turn into a gremlin when you're hungry.

 

[Colin norris]

Colin, eat a snickers. You turn into a gremlin when you're hungry.

If you don't expect to be challenged by me, don't post bullshit like that. I'll ping you every time.
You are delusional.

 

[GLASNOST]

Whatever floats your delusion I guess. If you don't stop being a smug, logical fallacy loving asshole I'll stop engaging with you for good.

I am "extremely unconcerned" whether or not you "stop engaging with me for good". The bottom line is that you are thoroughly dishonest with me, the readers, and yourself:

1). You failed to motivate the righteousness of Christmas against Paganism ..... which is the core discussion of this thread
2). You dug yourself a hole on the subject of "what you meant" and are still up to your eyeballs in it
3). You lied about having me "officially on your ignore list."

....... you need to work on some stuff. Like misrepresenting other people's arguments just to make yourself feel superior.

If there is any misinterpretation then it is you who have misrepresented yourself. I already told you that but your inferiority complex won't turn you loose. You see, it isn't any feeling of superiority on my part that is tormenting you. Your pain is from your own shortcomings and your failure to admit it for fear of revealing your inadequacies in the presence of the forum contributors. The saddest thing is that the more you squirm the worse it gets and the contributors to this forum cannot help but see it for what it is.

ADVICE: Realize that Christmas is "probably" founded on Pagan ritual, understand that your use of "brought into it" was incorrect, stop pretending that you are "extremely unconcerned" (which is a contradiction in itself), admit that you have not adhered to your threat of ignore-listing me and that you cannot help but observe my input. You'll feel much better about yourself if you 'come clean'.

 

[evenifigoalone]

If you don't expect to be challenged by me, don't post bullshit like that. I'll ping you every time.
You are delusional.

Dude, just let people believe in what they wanna believe in. You're the one who came charging in here wanting to debate about God's existence in a thread where the topic is whether Christmas has pagan or Christian origins. If you really gotta discuss God's existence that badly, start your own thread or go to one where God's existence is the topic. You're just showing your ass here.

I was never an atheist, but I did go through a period of heavy questioning where I almost left my faith behind. Cuz hey, there is not objective, presentable proof that God exists. It took a direct interaction with God to keep me in the faith. (And no, I'm not schizophrenic. My mental health care team can attest to that. I have anxiety, depression, and OCD--but not schizophrenia or any disorder that involves hallucinations or delusions.)

Anyways, I'm goin to bed cuz I'm running the slides at church tomorrow and need to be there at 8:30 in the morning. Gnight.

 

[Colin norris]

Dude, just let people believe in what they wanna believe in. You're the one who came charging in here wanting to debate about God's existence in a thread where the topic is whether Christmas has pagan or Christian origins. If you really gotta discuss God's existence that badly, start your own thread or go to one where God's existence is the topic. You're just showing your ass here.

I was never an atheist, but I did go through a period of heavy questioning where I almost left my faith behind. Cuz hey, there is not objective, presentable proof that God exists. It took a direct interaction with God to keep me in the faith. (And no, I'm not schizophrenic. My mental health care team can attest to that. I have anxiety, depression, and OCD--but not schizophrenia or any disorder that involves hallucinations or delusions.)

Anyways, I'm goin to bed cuz I'm running the slides at church tomorrow and need to be there at 8:30 in the morning. Gnight.

I won't be taking my instructions from you or any other godbotberer.

I refuse to allow delusional hypocrits to belch their lies on here they have no evidence for. I won't be letting it go as if it is responsible chatter. It's completely false and you know it.

 

[GLASNOST]

Well, I don't know how they did it. The religious believed that others must be Christians and set about changing them from "Pagan" religions.

When did the term "Christian" come about? I don't believe they thought of themselves as "Christians" way back then, did they? I mean, even today people use terms such as "Stalinist" and "Maoist". They are (more or less) declarations of cult followers within an established entity. So, it is my assumption that followers of Christ were simply mainstream break-away Jews.

 

[GLASNOST]

If you don't expect to be challenged by me, don't post bullshit like that. I'll ping you every time.
You are delusional.

4 x correct.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I won't be taking my instructions from you or any other godbotberer.

I refuse to allow delusional hypocrits to belch their lies on here they have no evidence for. I won't be letting it go as if it is responsible chatter. It's completely false and you know it.

ok, no skin off my nose. Just tryin to help you out, but if you won't take it that's on you. Gnight.

 

[GLASNOST]

Whatever floats your delusion I guess. If you don't stop being a smug, logical fallacy loving asshole I'll stop engaging with you for good.
You seem like you know what you're talking about, I'll give you that, but you need to work on some stuff. Like misrepresenting other people's arguments just to make yourself feel superior.

Also, what a fucking laugh that you declare me to have lost a debate where 99% of your rebuttals have not addressed the actual issue and upwards of 60% have just been smack talk. Lost? Yeah--you have, maybe.

I see that you've lost your train of thought and are now quoting yourself. Oh well, it's probably the best way to get any satisfaction.