Iran will rule the ME w/o firing a single shot

[High_Gravity]

If and when Iran becomes the ME superpower, it won't be because of Hezbollah. It will be because young people now make up two-thirds of their population, and they have become westernized. They are educated and believe in a diverse democracy, not theocracy.

There won't come any democratically-elected government in any Muslim nation to power, which will sing Haleluljah on USA.
Especially in Iran after the tumults in US-Iran relations in modern times. All sanctions the USA has pushed forward has hit also the population.
The US has lost its force of attraction for 'Joe Muslim', the period starting in 2002 has widened this loss also to non-Persians.
I was in Tebriz and I know some German-Iranians, which aren't refugees like California-Iranians, but have immigrated to Germany by classical brain-drain.
My impression is, that the USA isn't liked that much like the Americans seem to think.

If Iran is run post-clerically in some decades, it won't abandon it's natural role to play 'big-brother' for every Shiite out of its border.
This Shiite connection gives real power, even a secular government would board that train for the sake of power.

California has the largest population of Iranians outside Iran, I'm not saying all Iranians love America but they certainly all don't despise it like you are implying.

 

[High_Gravity]

The whole "Desert Storm" thing killed a crap load of Iraqis. And Clinton's embargo did in a whole lot more. Additionally we have a looong history there.

And aside from that, the Brits and other western nations practically "made" the Middle East, in that they established borders that didn't exist prior to their presence.

Desert Storm did kill alot of Iraqis but was actually childs plays compared to the wars we have now in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus that ended in 91. Until 9/11 the US wasn't attacking anyone really in the region, just protecting Saudi and Kuwait.

Well there was the embargo and the bombings. But, okay, aside from those things, wouldn't foreign troops deployed in your homeland to protect you, make you a little angry?

That's about 70% of Bin Laden's argument.

Well those troops were there at the invitation of the Saudis, they were not occupying that country. Bin Laden is a liar who doesn't really care for the Saudis anyways, besides, our Military bases in Saudi closed after we invaded Iraq.

 

[Dr.Drock]

People in the middle east were still getting killed as a result of American actions and activity. That..and there is the whole unfettered support of Israel..no matter what they do.

To be honest I know the US bombed Iraq a few times, Sudan and Afghanistan once, but I don't really remember the US doing much in the region Militarily before 9/11. All our troops were mostly in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and they werent doing that much.

The whole "Desert Storm" thing killed a crap load of Iraqis. And Clinton's embargo did in a whole lot more. Additionally we have a looong history there.

And aside from that, the Brits and other western nations practically "made" the Middle East, in that they established borders that didn't exist prior to their presence.

Such a great point that so few people know. That embargo under Clinton most likely killed more Iraqi's directly than the War in Iraq has.

You'd have to almost be crazy to live in the Middle East and not hate America.

 

[Sallow]

If and when Iran becomes the ME superpower, it won't be because of Hezbollah. It will be because young people now make up two-thirds of their population, and they have become westernized. They are educated and believe in a diverse democracy, not theocracy.

There won't come any democratically-elected government in any Muslim nation to power, which will sing Haleluljah on USA.
Especially in Iran after the tumults in US-Iran relations in modern times. All sanctions the USA has pushed forward has hit also the population.
The US has lost its force of attraction for 'Joe Muslim', the period starting in 2002 has widened this loss also to non-Persians.
I was in Tebriz and I know some German-Iranians, which aren't refugees like California-Iranians, but have immigrated to Germany by classical brain-drain.
My impression is, that the USA isn't liked that much like the Americans seem to think.

If Iran is run post-clerically in some decades, it won't abandon it's natural role to play 'big-brother' for every Shiite out of its border.
This Shiite connection gives real power, even a secular government would board that train for the sake of power.

California has the largest population of Iranians outside Iran, I'm not saying all Iranians love America but they certainly all don't despise it like you are implying.

Very true. A vast majority of Iran and Iranians in general love America.

 

[ekrem]

California has the largest population of Iranians outside Iran, I'm not saying all Iranians love America but they certainly all don't despise it like you are implying.

How much of the California-Iranians are political refugees?
Political refugees have an agenda, it's like with Ahmed Chalabi in case of Iraq that might give the impression Americans will be welcomed with flowers.

 

[High_Gravity]

California has the largest population of Iranians outside Iran, I'm not saying all Iranians love America but they certainly all don't despise it like you are implying.

How much of the California-Iranians are political refugees?
Political refugees have an agenda, it's like with Ahmed Chalabi in case of Iraq that might give the impression Americans will be welcomed with flowers.

I don't know and why does it matter? how are the Iranians in Germany any better than the ones in California?

 

[High_Gravity]

There won't come any democratically-elected government in any Muslim nation to power, which will sing Haleluljah on USA.
Especially in Iran after the tumults in US-Iran relations in modern times. All sanctions the USA has pushed forward has hit also the population.
The US has lost its force of attraction for 'Joe Muslim', the period starting in 2002 has widened this loss also to non-Persians.
I was in Tebriz and I know some German-Iranians, which aren't refugees like California-Iranians, but have immigrated to Germany by classical brain-drain.
My impression is, that the USA isn't liked that much like the Americans seem to think.

If Iran is run post-clerically in some decades, it won't abandon it's natural role to play 'big-brother' for every Shiite out of its border.
This Shiite connection gives real power, even a secular government would board that train for the sake of power.

California has the largest population of Iranians outside Iran, I'm not saying all Iranians love America but they certainly all don't despise it like you are implying.

Very true. A vast majority of Iran and Iranians in general love America.

Every Iranian I have met has had no problems with the US and loved it here, I also love Iranian food which I enjoy when I can.

 

[jillian]

They will back Hezbolla, and Hezbolla will get elected into seats of power and do and Iran commands.

'Day of rage' as Hezbollah gains power in Lebanon
'Day of rage' as Hezbollah takes power in Lebanon - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com


TRIPOLI, Lebanon — Hundreds of angry protesters burned tires and blocked roads across Lebanon on Tuesday after Iranian-backed Hezbollah secured the appointment of its candidate to lead the next government.

The nomination of Najib Mikati as prime minister, endorsed by President Michel Suleiman, is seen a victory for Hezbollah, which secured the parliamentary votes needed to wrest control of the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah's control over the government for the first time will sound alarm bells in Washington and Israel and raise concerns in moderate Sunni Arab states.

The protesters turned out in many cities in support of Mikati's defeated rival Saad al-Hariri, a Sunni Muslim whose government was ousted this month by Shiite Hezbollah and its allies in a dispute over the investigation of his father's assassination in 2005.

The protests were part of a "day of anger" called by loyalists of Hariri, who is backed by Saudi Arabia and Washington, to protest against Hezbollah, funded and supported by Tehran.

You gotta admire the way the are going about it.

The Palistinians first (a victim class), then spread into Lebanan, get elected to the point they have full control, and Irans hands are CLEAN.

Iran has a military that scares the crap outta the rest of the ME, so none of those countries will do a damn thing.


Who's next? My money is on Jordan. thier reliance on a tourism economy would seem to make them ripe for take over.

did you notice that the lebanese citizens are not tolerating Hezbollah destroying their government?

This, from today's edition of Ha'aretz.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government


Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah said Tuesday that his organization will not be the leader of Lebanon's new government, despite Hezbollah's backing of the new Lebanese prime minister-designate, Najib Mikati.

"Hezbollah will not lead the next government… Najib Mikati is not a Hezbollah man," Nasrallah said in a televised address to the people of Lebanon, in a bid to try to calm the ensuing riots in the country by supporters of former Prime Minister Saad Hariri, whose government was recently toppled by Hezbollah.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[Two Thumbs]

They will back Hezbolla, and Hezbolla will get elected into seats of power and do and Iran commands.

'Day of rage' as Hezbollah gains power in Lebanon
'Day of rage' as Hezbollah takes power in Lebanon - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com


TRIPOLI, Lebanon — Hundreds of angry protesters burned tires and blocked roads across Lebanon on Tuesday after Iranian-backed Hezbollah secured the appointment of its candidate to lead the next government.

The nomination of Najib Mikati as prime minister, endorsed by President Michel Suleiman, is seen a victory for Hezbollah, which secured the parliamentary votes needed to wrest control of the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah's control over the government for the first time will sound alarm bells in Washington and Israel and raise concerns in moderate Sunni Arab states.

The protesters turned out in many cities in support of Mikati's defeated rival Saad al-Hariri, a Sunni Muslim whose government was ousted this month by Shiite Hezbollah and its allies in a dispute over the investigation of his father's assassination in 2005.

The protests were part of a "day of anger" called by loyalists of Hariri, who is backed by Saudi Arabia and Washington, to protest against Hezbollah, funded and supported by Tehran.

You gotta admire the way the are going about it.

The Palistinians first (a victim class), then spread into Lebanan, get elected to the point they have full control, and Irans hands are CLEAN.

Iran has a military that scares the crap outta the rest of the ME, so none of those countries will do a damn thing.


Who's next? My money is on Jordan. thier reliance on a tourism economy would seem to make them ripe for take over.

did you notice that the lebanese citizens are not tolerating Hezbollah destroying their government?

This, from today's edition of Ha'aretz.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government


Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah said Tuesday that his organization will not be the leader of Lebanon's new government, despite Hezbollah's backing of the new Lebanese prime minister-designate, Najib Mikati.

"Hezbollah will not lead the next government… Najib Mikati is not a Hezbollah man," Nasrallah said in a televised address to the people of Lebanon, in a bid to try to calm the ensuing riots in the country by supporters of former Prime Minister Saad Hariri, whose government was recently toppled by Hezbollah.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

I knew the sunnis had taken to the streets to riot.

But your info is new.

Wonder if it's true or lip service to calm the rioters?

 

[High_Gravity]

Hezbollah is going to take over that country, nothing they can do about it.

 

[Sallow]

Desert Storm did kill alot of Iraqis but was actually childs plays compared to the wars we have now in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus that ended in 91. Until 9/11 the US wasn't attacking anyone really in the region, just protecting Saudi and Kuwait.

Well there was the embargo and the bombings. But, okay, aside from those things, wouldn't foreign troops deployed in your homeland to protect you, make you a little angry?

That's about 70% of Bin Laden's argument.

Well those troops were there at the invitation of the Saudis, they were not occupying that country. Bin Laden is a liar who doesn't really care for the Saudis anyways, besides, our Military bases in Saudi closed after we invaded Iraq.

That's basically not the point. In addition to waging a conventional war, we are waging an ideological one as well. And if we don't understand the argument of our enemies we will never quite understand what steps to take to invalidate them.

Terrorist groups don't suddenly disappear because they all get killed (well usually), they disappear because they are no longer needed.

 

[ekrem]

I don't know and why does it matter? how are the Iranians in Germany any better than the ones in California?

German-Iranians still travel to Iran in holiday, these are no refugees and still have a connection to Iran.
Political refugees don't travel or don't have the option to travel into Iran, how can they get an impression from what's happening inside Iran?

A Turk living in USA very likely will also love America, just like Iranians living in USA.
But, that doesn't mean, that they represent the so-called zeitgeist of their brethren at home.
Plus, Iranians in Iran have to cope with US driven sanctions.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Sunni Arabs are going to begin opposing Iran in the near future. And that's when all Hell really breaks loose over there. We haven't seen anything yet. The Sunni Arabs are very nervous about Iran. Iran currently controls Hezbollah & Hamas. They can wreak havoc if they want to. Look for a very dangerous Sunni Arab/Iran confrontation at some point.

 

[Trajan]

good one.

Based on 2009 election results, Shiites can't form a government.
If they can achieve to get support to be able to form a government with a Shiite as Prime Minister, then I don't see a problem.
Parties in Lebanon having a problem with being ruled by a Shiite Prime Minister haven't really internalized the concept of inclusive democracy.

The Arab dictatorships and what they think about Shiites forming a government isn't really something that should concern us.
They are dictatorships and represent the will of USA rather then the will of their own population.
Off course, they are free to stop economical aid to Lebanon which is currently flowing to Lebanon.

uhm what? what does this have to do with arab dictatorships? taif? remember?

does anyone here know who the Lebanese gov. is organized ...and why?

the agreement is a sunni gets the prime minister spot, the shiite speaker of the parliament is Christians get the presidency.....this is a major change up.

 

[Two Thumbs]

good one.

Based on 2009 election results, Shiites can't form a government.
If they can achieve to get support to be able to form a government with a Shiite as Prime Minister, then I don't see a problem.
Parties in Lebanon having a problem with being ruled by a Shiite Prime Minister haven't really internalized the concept of inclusive democracy.

The Arab dictatorships and what they think about Shiites forming a government isn't really something that should concern us.
They are dictatorships and represent the will of USA rather then the will of their own population.
Off course, they are free to stop economical aid to Lebanon which is currently flowing to Lebanon.

uhm what? what does this have to do with arab dictatorships? taif? remember?

does anyone here know who the Lebanese gov. is organized ...and why?

the agreement is a sunni gets the prime minister spot, the shiite speaker of the parliament is Christians get the presidency.....this is a major change up.

crazy

Thank the Founders for putting religion outside of politics.

Can you imagine spreading control around to the different religions here?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Iranian puppets are rapidly growing in power & influence. Hamas,Hezbollah,and Al Sadr in Iraq will cause terrible problems in the Middle East. It's just inevitable in my opinion. Don't count on the Sunni Arabs to stay quiet on this. Big big problems are coming to the Middle East.

 

[ekrem]

Very true. A vast majority of Iran and Iranians in general love America.

How do you know? Did you have any contacts with Iranians not living in USA?

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't know and why does it matter? how are the Iranians in Germany any better than the ones in California?

German-Iranians still travel to Iran in holiday, these are no refugees and still have a connection to Iran.
Political refugees don't travel or don't have the option to travel into Iran, how can they get an impression from what's happening inside Iran?

A Turk living in USA very likely will also love America, just like Iranians living in USA.
But, that doesn't mean, that they represent the so-called zeitgeist of their brethren at home.
Plus, Iranians in Iran have to cope with US driven sanctions.

So the Iranians living in Germany are not refugees? the only difference I see between them and the Iranians living here are what you said, Iranians can travel easily between Germany and Iran but encounter problems coming from the US because of the relations between the countries. Plus I wouldn't say all Iranians living in the US don't have a connection to Iran, many of them still go to Iran to visit family regardless of the risks and they have family there, so I think they do know whats going on.

 

[High_Gravity]

Very true. A vast majority of Iran and Iranians in general love America.

How do you know? Did you have any contacts with Iranians not living in USA?

I met many Iranians in Kuwait when I was there, and they all wanted to come to the US.

 

[jillian]

They will back Hezbolla, and Hezbolla will get elected into seats of power and do and Iran commands.

'Day of rage' as Hezbollah gains power in Lebanon
'Day of rage' as Hezbollah takes power in Lebanon - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com


TRIPOLI, Lebanon — Hundreds of angry protesters burned tires and blocked roads across Lebanon on Tuesday after Iranian-backed Hezbollah secured the appointment of its candidate to lead the next government.

The nomination of Najib Mikati as prime minister, endorsed by President Michel Suleiman, is seen a victory for Hezbollah, which secured the parliamentary votes needed to wrest control of the Lebanese government.

Hezbollah's control over the government for the first time will sound alarm bells in Washington and Israel and raise concerns in moderate Sunni Arab states.

The protesters turned out in many cities in support of Mikati's defeated rival Saad al-Hariri, a Sunni Muslim whose government was ousted this month by Shiite Hezbollah and its allies in a dispute over the investigation of his father's assassination in 2005.

The protests were part of a "day of anger" called by loyalists of Hariri, who is backed by Saudi Arabia and Washington, to protest against Hezbollah, funded and supported by Tehran.

You gotta admire the way the are going about it.

The Palistinians first (a victim class), then spread into Lebanan, get elected to the point they have full control, and Irans hands are CLEAN.

Iran has a military that scares the crap outta the rest of the ME, so none of those countries will do a damn thing.


Who's next? My money is on Jordan. thier reliance on a tourism economy would seem to make them ripe for take over.

did you notice that the lebanese citizens are not tolerating Hezbollah destroying their government?

This, from today's edition of Ha'aretz.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government


Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah said Tuesday that his organization will not be the leader of Lebanon's new government, despite Hezbollah's backing of the new Lebanese prime minister-designate, Najib Mikati.

"Hezbollah will not lead the next government… Najib Mikati is not a Hezbollah man," Nasrallah said in a televised address to the people of Lebanon, in a bid to try to calm the ensuing riots in the country by supporters of former Prime Minister Saad Hariri, whose government was recently toppled by Hezbollah.

Nasrallah: Hezbollah will not control next Lebanon government - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

I knew the sunnis had taken to the streets to riot.

But your info is new.

Wonder if it's true or lip service to calm the rioters?

that was from yesterday's israeli paper, ha'aretz. they're pretty good with info. what happens with the uprising remains to be seen.

this is today's from the jerusalem post

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=205167