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We've been in the Middle East the entire time, they view it as the same, much like how we would react to a foreign country we weren't allied with trying to take over Canada. We promoted the idea of empire expansion and tried to help Saddam with that exact cause, we promoted the idea radical islam to the Afghani's and Osama when they fought the soviets.
When we promote something to someone, then they use it, it's a sad way of lacking accountablility to say it's their fault especially when we have all the power.
So how far should we go to appease these people? remove the Military, shut down all US embassies and remove all American citizens from Muslim countries? that is not a reasonable request.
I don't view staying out of a country we have no business in as appeasing their people, I view it as doing what's in the best interest of the american people.
I'm not alone in thinking it'd be great for me and many others to receive a tax cut and a big decrease in gov't spending to get out of the middle east. Let alone the obvious factor that essentially everything we do over there is unconstitutional.
The ultimatums would probably go along the lines of leave the land or pay us money, leave or die, surrender to our authority, etc, etc,,,
Like what "ultimatum?"
If any country is prepared to receive ultimatums, I'd expect Israel would be at the top of the list.
One of Irans goals has been to either destroy Israel or push it into the sea. (same thing, but you get the picture)
If Iran proxy controls all of Israel flanks. what keeps them for pushing for that ultimate goal?
Well, it wouldn't be the first time anyone made the critical mistake of "pushing for that ultimate goal."
Influancing Lebanese politics via Hezbolla is a far cry from "controlling all of Israel flanks."
But let's imagine that somehow Iran would "rule the Middle East" (whatever that means), what advantage would they gain through a nuclear war?
Iran also controls Hamas.(...)
The ties between Hamas and Iran could only develop because there is a vacuum of Arab leadership for the Palestinian cause, the Arab governments all have become American puppets with their primary goal being 'regime survival'.
The Arabs don't support the Palestinian cause and Fatah has become an absolute intimidated playball of the Israelis. Al Jazeera currently is leaking 1.600 files from Fatah-led negotiations. It isn't good publicity for them as it becomes clear that Fatah has given up on main demands of the Palestinian cause, like return right of the refugees.
The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English
Under these circumstances you (Hamas) take every support you get. And Iran is willing to support.
You wanna pull out completely, man the beaches and hope for the best.
Or kill terrorism in the womb?
I don't care one wit if they go around killing each other. but I'm not gonna kid myself and assume when they are done that won't come here and kill us.
Pulling out would greatly lower their eagerness to kill us imo.
Killing terrorism is a nice thought in a fantasy world, much like socialism, world peace etc.
I'd rather focus on securing our borders, securing our ports, defense, enormous scale backs on troops abroad to decrease spending and taxes rather than be the expensive playground aid in the recess of the middle east.
Huh? we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan when 9/11, Khobar towers, the USS Cole attacks or the bombings on the embassies in Africa happened. What makes you think pulling out will convince the terrorists to leave us alone?
Iran also controls Hamas.(...)
The ties between Hamas and Iran could only develop because there is a vacuum of Arab leadership for the Palestinian cause, the Arab governments all have become American puppets with their primary goal being 'regime survival'.
The Arabs don't support the Palestinian cause and Fatah has become an absolute intimidated playball of the Israelis. Al Jazeera currently is leaking 1.600 files from Fatah-led negotiations. It isn't good publicity for them as it becomes clear that Fatah has given up on main demands of the Palestinian cause, like return right of the refugees.
The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English
Under these circumstances you (Hamas) take every support you get. And Iran is willing to support.
Personally i could care less who controls Hamas. I just don't want my Government giving them any more American Tax Dollars. Cretins who routinely burn American Flags and screech "Death to America!" should not receive American Tax Dollars. Hey,say what you want about Israel,at least they pretend to like us. I can't stand the fact our Government gives Hamas & Fatah Tax Dollars. What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? All i've ever seen is them burning our Flag and rejoicing after 911. Our Foreign Policy is pretty messed up. Giving hard-earned American Tax Dollars to cretins who hate us is just plain criminal. I would like to see a major revolutionary overhaul of our Foreign Policy. To Hell with Hamas. What have they ever done for me?
One of Irans goals has been to either destroy Israel or push it into the sea. (same thing, but you get the picture)
If Iran proxy controls all of Israel flanks. what keeps them for pushing for that ultimate goal?
Well, it wouldn't be the first time anyone made the critical mistake of "pushing for that ultimate goal."
Influancing Lebanese politics via Hezbolla is a far cry from "controlling all of Israel flanks."
But let's imagine that somehow Iran would "rule the Middle East" (whatever that means), what advantage would they gain through a nuclear war?
They wouldn't need nuclear war. If they politically control a country, they can stop all trade with Israel. If they then went to war with Israel, they would act as one and not a bunch of disjointed countries.
Pulling out would greatly lower their eagerness to kill us imo.
Killing terrorism is a nice thought in a fantasy world, much like socialism, world peace etc.
I'd rather focus on securing our borders, securing our ports, defense, enormous scale backs on troops abroad to decrease spending and taxes rather than be the expensive playground aid in the recess of the middle east.
Huh? we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan when 9/11, Khobar towers, the USS Cole attacks or the bombings on the embassies in Africa happened. What makes you think pulling out will convince the terrorists to leave us alone?
People in the middle east were still getting killed as a result of American actions and activity. That..and there is the whole unfettered support of Israel..no matter what they do.
So how far should we go to appease these people? remove the Military, shut down all US embassies and remove all American citizens from Muslim countries? that is not a reasonable request.
I don't view staying out of a country we have no business in as appeasing their people, I view it as doing what's in the best interest of the american people.
I'm not alone in thinking it'd be great for me and many others to receive a tax cut and a big decrease in gov't spending to get out of the middle east. Let alone the obvious factor that essentially everything we do over there is unconstitutional.
How is everything we do over there unconstitutional? wer never going to be able to force all the Americans to leave the Middle East, if thats what you trying to say. I think Saudi Arabia has more than 100,000 Americans living there alone as civilians.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time anyone made the critical mistake of "pushing for that ultimate goal."
Influancing Lebanese politics via Hezbolla is a far cry from "controlling all of Israel flanks."
But let's imagine that somehow Iran would "rule the Middle East" (whatever that means), what advantage would they gain through a nuclear war?
They wouldn't need nuclear war. If they politically control a country, they can stop all trade with Israel. If they then went to war with Israel, they would act as one and not a bunch of disjointed countries.
Why?
The ties between Hamas and Iran could only develop because there is a vacuum of Arab leadership for the Palestinian cause, the Arab governments all have become American puppets with their primary goal being 'regime survival'.
The Arabs don't support the Palestinian cause and Fatah has become an absolute intimidated playball of the Israelis. Al Jazeera currently is leaking 1.600 files from Fatah-led negotiations. It isn't good publicity for them as it becomes clear that Fatah has given up on main demands of the Palestinian cause, like return right of the refugees.
The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English
Under these circumstances you (Hamas) take every support you get. And Iran is willing to support.
Personally i could care less who controls Hamas. I just don't want my Government giving them any more American Tax Dollars. Cretins who routinely burn American Flags and screech "Death to America!" should not receive American Tax Dollars. Hey,say what you want about Israel,at least they pretend to like us. I can't stand the fact our Government gives Hamas & Fatah Tax Dollars. What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? All i've ever seen is them burning our Flag and rejoicing after 911. Our Foreign Policy is pretty messed up. Giving hard-earned American Tax Dollars to cretins who hate us is just plain criminal. I would like to see a major revolutionary overhaul of our Foreign Policy. To Hell with Hamas. What have they ever done for me?
Absofuckinglutely! America gives billions to Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen and various other Islamic countries where 95% of the people despise us. America is the only country that gives money to people who want them dead.
Yea giving American Tax Dollars to people who burn our Flag,screech "Death to America!",and rejoice over 911 really is criminal. Unfortunately the American People have no say in how this "Foreign Aid" money is spent. I mean it's only our money right? What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? The answer is a big ZIP. The whole Foreign Aid idea has to be re-examined and the American People need to have more say in how it's spent. They just announced they're giving Hamas another $500,000 in "Aid." It just doesn't make any sense. We need big changes.
Huh? we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan when 9/11, Khobar towers, the USS Cole attacks or the bombings on the embassies in Africa happened. What makes you think pulling out will convince the terrorists to leave us alone?
People in the middle east were still getting killed as a result of American actions and activity. That..and there is the whole unfettered support of Israel..no matter what they do.
To be honest I know the US bombed Iraq a few times, Sudan and Afghanistan once, but I don't really remember the US doing much in the region Militarily before 9/11. All our troops were mostly in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and they werent doing that much.
Personally i could care less who controls Hamas. I just don't want my Government giving them any more American Tax Dollars. Cretins who routinely burn American Flags and screech "Death to America!" should not receive American Tax Dollars. Hey,say what you want about Israel,at least they pretend to like us. I can't stand the fact our Government gives Hamas & Fatah Tax Dollars. What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? All i've ever seen is them burning our Flag and rejoicing after 911. Our Foreign Policy is pretty messed up. Giving hard-earned American Tax Dollars to cretins who hate us is just plain criminal. I would like to see a major revolutionary overhaul of our Foreign Policy. To Hell with Hamas. What have they ever done for me?
Absofuckinglutely! America gives billions to Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen and various other Islamic countries where 95% of the people despise us. America is the only country that gives money to people who want them dead.
Just about every western nation, the Chinese, the Japanese and the Russians do exactly the same thing.
Yea giving American Tax Dollars to people who burn our Flag,screech "Death to America!",and rejoice over 911 really is criminal. Unfortunately the American People have no say in how this "Foreign Aid" money is spent. I mean it's only our money right? What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? The answer is a big ZIP. The whole Foreign Aid idea has to be re-examined and the American People need to have more say in how it's spent. They just announced they're giving Hamas another $500,000 in "Aid." It just doesn't make any sense. We need big changes.
Giving them money is an absolute idiotic waste I agree, however I'm more worried about the billions we've given Israel who essentially encourages the entire middle east to hate America with their foreign policy decisions (not that our own don't influence it enough).
People in the middle east were still getting killed as a result of American actions and activity. That..and there is the whole unfettered support of Israel..no matter what they do.
To be honest I know the US bombed Iraq a few times, Sudan and Afghanistan once, but I don't really remember the US doing much in the region Militarily before 9/11. All our troops were mostly in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and they werent doing that much.
The whole "Desert Storm" thing killed a crap load of Iraqis. And Clinton's embargo did in a whole lot more. Additionally we have a looong history there.
And aside from that, the Brits and other western nations practically "made" the Middle East, in that they established borders that didn't exist prior to their presence.
Yea giving American Tax Dollars to people who burn our Flag,screech "Death to America!",and rejoice over 911 really is criminal. Unfortunately the American People have no say in how this "Foreign Aid" money is spent. I mean it's only our money right? What have Hamas & Fatah ever done for American Citizens? The answer is a big ZIP. The whole Foreign Aid idea has to be re-examined and the American People need to have more say in how it's spent. They just announced they're giving Hamas another $500,000 in "Aid." It just doesn't make any sense. We need big changes.
Giving them money is an absolute idiotic waste I agree, however I'm more worried about the billions we've given Israel who essentially encourages the entire middle east to hate America with their foreign policy decisions (not that our own don't influence it enough).
I hear ya but at least Israel pretends to like us. Giving hard-earned American Tax Dollars to cretins who routinely burn our Flag and rejoice over 911 just seems ludicrous and even criminal. The American People need more say in how "Foreign Aid" money is spent. Another $500,000 for Hamas? For what? What a sad scam.
If and when Iran becomes the ME superpower, it won't be because of Hezbollah. It will be because young people now make up two-thirds of their population, and they have become westernized. They are educated and believe in a diverse democracy, not theocracy.
To be honest I know the US bombed Iraq a few times, Sudan and Afghanistan once, but I don't really remember the US doing much in the region Militarily before 9/11. All our troops were mostly in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and they werent doing that much.
The whole "Desert Storm" thing killed a crap load of Iraqis. And Clinton's embargo did in a whole lot more. Additionally we have a looong history there.
And aside from that, the Brits and other western nations practically "made" the Middle East, in that they established borders that didn't exist prior to their presence.
Desert Storm did kill alot of Iraqis but was actually childs plays compared to the wars we have now in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus that ended in 91. Until 9/11 the US wasn't attacking anyone really in the region, just protecting Saudi and Kuwait.
