Independent panel concludes Bush engaged in torture

[JakeStarkey]

Can you read or are you high, which rules do the terrorists follow to allow them those protections...

You do realize the convention was made by legitimate countries(mostly western ones) that set up rules for warfare....follow me so far

Then they said you had to treat people fairly, so again if we have a Brit, German, French, Russian, prisoner than we dont do that much mean stuff to them, but if you are a ......spy.....terrorist....or of a country that doesnt play by the rules.....we dont give you nice treatment when our people are beheaded and tortured (and I dont mean waterboarding) on a daily basis.

Doesn't matter. The law of war internationally applies. Bushies cannot go to certain countries. They will be arrested and taken to The Hague.

Fringe crazy reactionaries can screech all they want, but the fact remains, the Bushies don't travel. For very good reasons.

Remember this?

George W. Bush Cans Swiss Trip as Groups Promise Prosecution for War Crimes


George W. Bush Cancels Swiss Trip as Rights Activists Vow War Crimes Charges - ABC News

They were ready with air nets to catch him.

 

[t_polkow]

Can you read or are you high, which rules do the terrorists follow to allow them those protections...

You do realize the convention was made by legitimate countries(mostly western ones) that set up rules for warfare....follow me so far

Then they said you had to treat people fairly, so again if we have a Brit, German, French, Russian, prisoner than we dont do that much mean stuff to them, but if you are a ......spy.....terrorist....or of a country that doesnt play by the rules.....we dont give you nice treatment when our people are beheaded and tortured (and I dont mean waterboarding) on a daily basis.

Doesn't matter. The law of war internationally applies. Bushies cannot go to certain countries. They will be arrested and taken to The Hague.

Fringe crazy reactionaries can screech all they want, but the fact remains, the Bushies don't travel. For very good reasons.

Remember this?

George W. Bush Cans Swiss Trip as Groups Promise Prosecution for War Crimes


George W. Bush Cancels Swiss Trip as Rights Activists Vow War Crimes Charges - ABC News

Name: George Walker Bush

Born: July 6, 1946, New Haven, Connecticut

Profession: Businessman

GW Bush Administration Position:
43rd President of the United States
War crime charge(s):
Crime against peace – planning and carrying out a war of aggression.
Complicity in the commission of a war crime – wanton destruction of cities and villages, devastation not justified by military necessity, ill-treatment of civilian population of or in occupied territory.
Complicity in the commission of a war crime – torture, ill-treatment of detainees. Approved waterboarding and other torture methods.
Signed an order (Feb. 7, 2002) stating that terrorists were not entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.

Bush, George W

 

[TemplarKormac]

Torture is illegal nationally and internationally.

Those authorize it and who do it in war time are war criminals.

Bush et al are war criminals.

That is why the senior foreign policies don't travel very much, certainly aware of western Europe, Oregon, and Massachusetts as not good places for them to go.

Starting wars without prior authorization of Congress is illegal here. Thanks Obama!

Obama is also a criminal.

 

[hortysir]

Torture is illegal nationally and internationally.

Those authorize it and who do it in war time are war criminals.

Bush et al are war criminals.

That is why the senior foreign policies don't travel very much, certainly aware of western Europe, Oregon, and Massachusetts as not good places for them to go.

Starting wars without prior authorization of Congress is illegal here. Thanks Obama!

Obama is also a criminal.

That's different.......somehow


Obama merely violates other sovereign nations' airspace, without their consent, and targets American citizens and their children.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh wow the holier than thou left.....I love you guys, personal morality you dont care about, but by God we're not gonna torture people......please torture is a tool I support when needed.....I'd rather torture a person that has info to save hundreds or thousands of lives.....but
Liberals would never torture.....it's just wrong....unless it's their heroes.
Liberals would rather let 1000 murderers go free than convict one innocent man....sorry jack, I'm gonna go with the numbers....one innocent man vs 1000 innocent victums........

But the one think I have control over is my personal morality, and I'm a big fan of enforcing that.

Every soldier has information that can save lives. Torture is not justified to retrieve it. That is why it is banned by the Geneva convention

Gong. Actually the Geneva convention is for soldiers in uniforms of recognized governments who display their arms openly for military objectives. There is zero applicability to that and your argument.

So torturing someone without a uniform is justified?

I don't think so

Wrong is still wrong

 

[JakeStarkey]

Torture is illegal nationally and internationally.

Those authorize it and who do it in war time are war criminals.

Bush et al are war criminals.

That is why the senior foreign policies don't travel very much, certainly aware of western Europe, Oregon, and Massachusetts as not good places for them to go.

Starting wars without prior authorization of Congress is illegal here. Thanks Obama!

Obama is also a criminal.

That's different.......somehow


Obama merely violates other sovereign nations' airspace, without their consent, and targets American citizens and their children.

So you support Khaddafi. Got it.

 

[hortysir]

Starting wars without prior authorization of Congress is illegal here. Thanks Obama!

Obama is also a criminal.

That's different.......somehow


Obama merely violates other sovereign nations' airspace, without their consent, and targets American citizens and their children.

So you support Khaddafi. Got it.

WTF is that supposed to mean, SFB?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Doesn't matter. The law of war internationally applies. Bushies cannot go to certain countries. They will be arrested and taken to The Hague.

Fringe crazy reactionaries can screech all they want, but the fact remains, the Bushies don't travel. For very good reasons.

Remember this?

George W. Bush Cans Swiss Trip as Groups Promise Prosecution for War Crimes


George W. Bush Cancels Swiss Trip as Rights Activists Vow War Crimes Charges - ABC News

Name: George Walker Bush

Born: July 6, 1946, New Haven, Connecticut

Profession: Businessman

GW Bush Administration Position:
43rd President of the United States
War crime charge(s):
Crime against peace – planning and carrying out a war of aggression.
Complicity in the commission of a war crime – wanton destruction of cities and villages, devastation not justified by military necessity, ill-treatment of civilian population of or in occupied territory.
Complicity in the commission of a war crime – torture, ill-treatment of detainees. Approved waterboarding and other torture methods.
Signed an order (Feb. 7, 2002) stating that terrorists were not entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.

Bush, George W

Name: Barack Hussein Obama

Born: August 4, 1961, Honolulu, Hawaii

Profession: Community Organizer

Obama Administration Position:
44th and 45th President of the United States
Constitutional Transgression(s), Oath Violation(s):

1. Invaded Libya, Yemen, Sudan, Uganda and Pakistan without prior Congressional approval. (Article 1, Section 8)

2. Killed Americans without Due Process rights. (14th Amendment, Section 1)

3. Issued Soviet-style order to Catholic and other faith-based institutions to violate their beliefs and provide insurance covering abortifacients, contraceptives and sterilizations. (1st Amendment)

4. Appointed agency "czars" without approval from the Senate. (Article II, Section 2)

5. Made illegal recess appointments. (Article II, Section 2)

6. Forced Americans into a colossal monstrosity known as Obamacare, insisting it was a tax, and ruled a tax by the Supreme Court. (Article I, Section 8)

7. Refuses to enforce laws faithfully, for lack of will or preference. (Article II, Section 3)

8. Stonewalled Fast and Furious investigation. (Contempt of Congress)

9. Did not prosecute two New Black Panther members for intimidating voters at a Pennsylvania polling place. (14th and 15th Amendments)

10. Allowed the FCC to enact "net neutrality" protocols, later stuck down by lower court. (1st Amendment)

11. Sued Arizona in 2010 for upholding Federal law. (10th Amendment)

12. Upon swearing to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution" he gives a foreign (Felipe Calderon) leader a platform to denounce an American state. Upon swearing that oath, he affirms the the States are part of the United States and no other foreign state by default.

13. Allowed the NLRB to sue Boeing for not setting up it's plant in a Right-to-work state, upon Union objections. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the Federal Government call tell businesses where to operate.

14. Signed Dodd-Frank into law. (5th and 14th Amendment; Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2)

15. 9/11 Responders Relief Fund (Article 1, Section 8)

16. Accepted Chairmanship of the UN Security Council. (Article 1, Section 9)

17. Instituted Cap and Trade (Article 1, Section 8)

18. Cash for Clunkers (Article 1, Sections 2 and 8)

19. TARP funding (Article 1, Section 8)

20. Failed to protect the border. (Article 4, Section 4)

But that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Dayuuummm there TemplarKormac

 

[TemplarKormac]

Starting wars without prior authorization of Congress is illegal here. Thanks Obama!

Obama is also a criminal.

That's different.......somehow


Obama merely violates other sovereign nations' airspace, without their consent, and targets American citizens and their children.

So you support Khaddafi. Got it.

No. He supports the Constitution. You have to declare war first, only Congress can do that. Comprende?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Dayuuummm there TemplarKormac

I don't play

 

[Redfish]

waterboarding is not torture---------end of story, end of thread.

 

[hortysir]

Dayuuummm there TemplarKormac

I don't play

I quit school because they had recess

 

[Redfish]

Dayuuummm there TemplarKormac

I don't play

I quit school because they had recess

recess has been banned, the fat kids got their feelings hurt when they weren't picked first for dodgeball.

 

[hortysir]

Hell, fucking dodgeball has been banned

 

[kaz]

Every soldier has information that can save lives. Torture is not justified to retrieve it. That is why it is banned by the Geneva convention

Gong. Actually the Geneva convention is for soldiers in uniforms of recognized governments who display their arms openly for military objectives. There is zero applicability to that and your argument.

So torturing someone without a uniform is justified?

You said it's against the Geneva convention, I said no, it's not.

You come back with that means I argued it's "justified."

Actually there is no logical flow. Whatever I think, that is a completely illogical conclusion. Debating you is just that stupid each and every time.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Bush-era torture use 'indisputable,' Guantanamo must close, task force finds - U.S. News

An independent task force issued a damning review of Bush-era interrogation practices on Tuesday, saying the highest U.S. officials bore ultimate responsibility for the "indisputable" use of torture, and it urged President Barack Obama to close the Guantanamo detention camp by the end of 2014.

In one of the most comprehensive studies of U.S. treatment of terrorism suspects, the panel concluded that never before had there been "the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody."

"It is indisputable that the United States engaged in the practice of torture," the 11-member task force, assembled by the nonpartisan Constitution Project think tank, said in their 577-page report



The panel, which included leading politicians from both parties, two U.S. retired generals and legal and ethics scholars, spent two years examining the U.S. treatment of suspected militants detained after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Panel members interviewed former Clinton, Bush and Obama administration officials, military officers and former prisoners, and the investigation looked at U.S. practices at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan and Iraq and at the CIA's former secret prisons overseas.

The task force was chaired by Asa Hutchinson, a Republican former congressman and undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the George W. Bush administration, and James Jones, a Democratic former congressman who served as U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

What is your point?
Should we instead be giving these terrorist pricks tea and cookies?
Look, for our national defense against people who are aworn to our destruction, non conventional methods are required to extract information which can save American lives.
You weep for the terrorist.
These people fight in the gutter. Sometimes one has to go into the gutter to defeat the enemy.
If this upsets your apple cart, let me ask you, would you be more comfy with another 9/11?

The point is simply this..

We are the United States. There was a time we set the moral standard for the world. We held ourself up to values of human rights that were unwavering.

Every act of torture is performed under the justification that it is somehow done to save lives. When US Soldiers are tortured, it is done because they have information about attack plans, tactics, capabilities and vulnerabilities that could save lives. It is not right when the enemy does it to our soldiers and it is not rightwhen we do it to others

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

There are things our federal government does in the name of freedom that give you the opportunity to slap at your keyboard. Freedom is not free. Nor is it squeaky clean. Deal with it.
Ideas such as yours are the reason why we lost the war in Vietnam. Instead of blowing the North to Mongolia our politicians decided wining hearts and minds was a better idea.
The rules are valid only if everyone plays by them.

 

[petro]

What is your point?
Should we instead be giving these terrorist pricks tea and cookies?
Look, for our national defense against people who are aworn to our destruction, non conventional methods are required to extract information which can save American lives.
You weep for the terrorist.
These people fight in the gutter. Sometimes one has to go into the gutter to defeat the enemy.
If this upsets your apple cart, let me ask you, would you be more comfy with another 9/11?

The point is simply this..

We are the United States. There was a time we set the moral standard for the world. We held ourself up to values of human rights that were unwavering.

Every act of torture is performed under the justification that it is somehow done to save lives. When US Soldiers are tortured, it is done because they have information about attack plans, tactics, capabilities and vulnerabilities that could save lives. It is not right when the enemy does it to our soldiers and it is not rightwhen we do it to others

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

There are things our federal government does in the name of freedom that give you the opportunity to slap at your keyboard. Freedom is not free. Nor is it squeaky clean. Deal with it.
Ideas such as yours are the reason why we lost the war in Vietnam. Instead of blowing the North to Mongolia our politicians decided wining hearts and minds was a better idea.
The rules are valid only if everyone plays by them.

Well said.

No war is won by winning hearts and minds. A war is won by destroying the enemy and altering their way of thinking. We dealt with this when we conquered Japan which was an enemy that was willing to die for their Emperor God by sacrificing their own lives. Sounds familiar to today's enemy.

If the enemy ignores the rules, you must be more ruthless than they are. It is how we won WWII.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's different.......somehow


Obama merely violates other sovereign nations' airspace, without their consent, and targets American citizens and their children.

So you support Khaddafi. Got it.

No. He supports the Constitution. You have to declare war first, only Congress can do that. Comprende?

Ah, TK, Khadaffi can't support anything, much less the Constitution, because he is dead.

You do not know the Constitutional narrative or federal law, do you? A force resolution by both chambers of Congress meet the Constitutional need for sustained warfare. A president has the power to commit military forces in short-term allotments, as he did in Libya.

Please, go read a history book.

 

[JakeStarkey]

waterboarding is not torture---------end of story, end of thread.

Go read, Redfish: you are witless as Yurt.