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In Defense of Islam

TeaBagger

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Without bashing any other religion can someone sing the praises of Islam and Muslims? Saying crap like "what about the Crusades?" or making fun of fundamentalist Christians who think the earth is 5000 years old is not a defense of Islam. I have studied Islam in some depth and so far I have been unable to find any redeeming values in Islam or the history of Islam. All I can find is evil.

Does Islam have any redeeming value? If so what?
 

frigidweirdo

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Without bashing any other religion can someone sing the praises of Islam and Muslims? Saying crap like "what about the Crusades?" or making fun of fundamentalist Christians who think the earth is 5000 years old is not a defense of Islam. I have studied Islam in some depth and so far I have been unable to find any redeeming values in Islam or the history of Islam. All I can find is evil.

Does Islam have any redeeming value? If so what?

Not really. I don't like Islam. Then again I don't like Christianity, Judaism or any of the other fantasy story religion things. Some are better than others.

However it's not really the point.

I don't like basketball or football either. Does that mean they should be banned? Does it mean people shouldn't play them because I DON'T LIKE THEM?

Not really.

Freedom of religion is part of the Constitution, I stand by the Constitution, more than that I stand by the theory of Human Rights which says people should be able to do whatever they like as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

So, as long as Muslim doesn't go around infringing on my rights or the rights of others, I couldn't give a damn what fairy story they believe in, I don't care what they do, I don't care what they believe or what they say.
 

Moonglow

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religion is a system of social control.. There are no redeeming values in religion that needs to control society...
 

Contumacious

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Without bashing any other religion can someone sing the praises of Islam and Muslims? Saying crap like "what about the Crusades?" or making fun of fundamentalist Christians who think the earth is 5000 years old is not a defense of Islam. I have studied Islam in some depth and so far I have been unable to find any redeeming values in Islam or the history of Islam. All I can find is evil.

Does Islam have any redeeming value? If so what?


Hey motherfucker

I don't find any redeeming value in warmongering , militarism, imperialism or interventionism.

Nevertheless, I was drafted and sent to Viet Nam in 1969. I was told to kill people who had done nothing to me.

Let's evaluate that bullshit, UN-american, Unconstitutional enslavement first.


.
 

emilynghiem

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Without bashing any other religion can someone sing the praises of Islam and Muslims? Saying crap like "what about the Crusades?" or making fun of fundamentalist Christians who think the earth is 5000 years old is not a defense of Islam. I have studied Islam in some depth and so far I have been unable to find any redeeming values in Islam or the history of Islam. All I can find is evil.

Does Islam have any redeeming value? If so what?

Dear TeaBagger
here are points where I can agree and support Muslim teachings

1. unity and inclusion of Jews Christians and Muslims as people of the Book,
all under Scriptural authority from the Torah to the Bible to the Quran.
I believe such unity is established by the rebuke and redress process of reconciliation
(Matthew 18:15-20) to resolve any differences in the spirit of Christ Jesus,
so neighborly relations are maintained in good faith by God's truth.
All Jews Christians and Muslims can follow this, even if their cultural
backgrounds remain diverse. they can all agree to respect and follow
common principles in the Bible, or agree to disagree civilly as in SURA 109

2. respect for natural laws of civil government and democracy as created by God.
The Muslims I know respect the natural laws that govern humanity,
similar to how Constitutionalist respect govt laws as based on
"natural laws created by God." Aligning along Constitutional values and principles
shared by both Muslims, Christians and secular humanists who also believe in natural laws
provides a common language and context, with value placed on peace and justice for humanity.

The idea is similar in both Christianity and Islam to respect the laws of the land including the govt
as part of civil responsibility and duty to God.

3. inclusion of all people of all ways, out of respect for God's will in creating humanity to be diverse.
since Islam teaches there is "no compulsion in religion" then all people ideally respect free will
of others, and trusting God.
The Muslims I know are naturally "universalist" in their views of humanity, and especially the Bahai teachings that came out of the Muslim culture and expanded on this even further.
 

The Great Goose

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Oh, I don't know. It's unifying. It restore the power of men over women and makes the masses submissive and amendable to war.

I think its quite useful.
 

Dogmaphobe

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It's a bit difficult right now for me to witness the rape Jihad spreading its evil tendrils across Europe to think too charitably about the political ideology called Islam that is responsible for it.
 

The Great Goose

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It's a bit difficult right now for me to witness the rape Jihad spreading its evil tendrils across Europe to think too charitably about the political ideology called Islam that is responsible for it.
The rape jihad started in the 60s
 
OP
TeaBagger

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.

Muslims make some outrageous claims about their contributions to humanity. Their biggest claim in algebra and that one has been busted.
How Muslims Did Not Invent Algebra | Gates of Vienna

How Islamic Inventors Did Not Change The World - WikiIslam

 

PaintMyHouse

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.
Since you are lying to yourself then, no one can help you so, I won't bother.

For others, more willing to deal in reality:
 
OP
TeaBagger

TeaBagger

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Without bashing any other religion can someone sing the praises of Islam and Muslims? Saying crap like "what about the Crusades?" or making fun of fundamentalist Christians who think the earth is 5000 years old is not a defense of Islam. I have studied Islam in some depth and so far I have been unable to find any redeeming values in Islam or the history of Islam. All I can find is evil.

Does Islam have any redeeming value? If so what?

Not really. I don't like Islam. Then again I don't like Christianity, Judaism or any of the other fantasy story religion things. Some are better than others.

However it's not really the point.

I don't like basketball or football either. Does that mean they should be banned? Does it mean people shouldn't play them because I DON'T LIKE THEM?

Not really.

Freedom of religion is part of the Constitution, I stand by the Constitution, more than that I stand by the theory of Human Rights which says people should be able to do whatever they like as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

So, as long as Muslim doesn't go around infringing on my rights or the rights of others, I couldn't give a damn what fairy story they believe in, I don't care what they do, I don't care what they believe or what they say.

How about we call Nazism a religion? Islam is far worse than Nazism. Do you think putting a religious label should give it protection?
 
OP
TeaBagger

TeaBagger

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.
Since you are lying to yourself then, no one can help you so, I won't bother.

You posted a Wikipedia article which was written by propagandists. Muslims had no role in mathematics or optics. They try to take credit for pre Islamic Persian inventions. Why that pedophile Mohammad forced Islam onto people the Middle East entered a dark age from which they will never emerge unless Islam is abolished.
 

PaintMyHouse

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.
Since you are lying to yourself then, no one can help you so, I won't bother.

You posted a Wikipedia article which was written by propagandists. Muslims had no role in mathematics or optics. They try to take credit for pre Islamic Persian inventions. Why that pedophile Mohammad forced Islam onto people the Middle East entered a dark age from which they will never emerge unless Islam is abolished.
No one can help you, as you living by lies, and happy to do so it appears.
 
OP
TeaBagger

TeaBagger

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How about we call Nazism a religion? Islam is far worse than Nazism.
They are nothing alike, nothing.

You are right, in some ways they are different. Nazis never made raping little girls legal. Nazis never subjugated women. Nazis had some brilliant scientists like Von Braun.

So far you have failed to present anything that show that Islam doesn't sucks ass.

Your BS source says the Muslims invented trigonometry. They didn't. The ancient Greeks did.
The birth of trigonometry

Muslims did not invent Geometry. The Greeks did 3000 years ago.
Greek Geometry - Euclid, Pythagoras, Archimedes and Thales

Muslims did not invent calculus. Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz independently invented calculus in the mid-17th century.
History of calculus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Two Arabs made a couple of questionable discoveries in astronomy but there is not proof they were Muslims.
Timeline of astronomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







 
OP
TeaBagger

TeaBagger

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.
Since you are lying to yourself then, no one can help you so, I won't bother.

You posted a Wikipedia article which was written by propagandists. Muslims had no role in mathematics or optics. They try to take credit for pre Islamic Persian inventions. Why that pedophile Mohammad forced Islam onto people the Middle East entered a dark age from which they will never emerge unless Islam is abolished.
No one can help you, as you living by lies, and happy to do so it appears.

Mohammad was a pedophile. He had about 20 wives and many slave girls. One of his wives was Aisha. He married her when she was six and he began raping her when she was 9. Muslims consider Mohammad to be the perfect man. Your video was total and complete BS.

The Biggest Holocaust in World History - Hinduwebsite.com Muslims killed 80 MILLION Hindus.

'In 1971, Muslims murdered 2.4 million Hindus and raped ...


Islam-RapingChildren.jpg

 
OP
TeaBagger

TeaBagger

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Islam Guide: What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

Whatever you have been reading, skip it. And remember that it saved for us, from the Catholic Church, a good deal of what still matters, They had fountains and streetlights in the deserts when Europe lived in mud huts.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've read that stuff and it is all BS. The Five Pillars is not in the Koran or Haddith. The Five Pillars are hype. Islam had no golden age.
Since you are lying to yourself then, no one can help you so, I won't bother.

For others, more willing to deal in reality:

Here are the Muslim Rules For Wife Beating

Quran
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).


Hadith and Sira
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" Muhammad's own wife complained of the abuse that the women of her religion suffered relative to other women.

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's fathers-in-law (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings in a Muslim marriage are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Abu Dawud (2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim thinks he is getting a virgin, then finds out that she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she delivers the child.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 969 - Requires that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.

Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p. 525) - [Muhammad said] "Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it"
Notes
Some contemporary Muslim apologists often squirm over this relatively straightforward verse from the Quran (4:34) - which gives men the right to beat their wives if they even have a "fear" of disloyalty or disobedience. Their rhetorical aerobics inspired us to write a separate article:

Wife Beating- Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You

Others are not nearly as squeamish. Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary." He went on to say that "one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior," leaving no doubt that wife-beating is a matter of religious sanction. (source)

Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife "recognizes the authority of her husband in the house" and that he may use physical force if he is "sure it would improve the situation." (source)

Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reformthe wife" (source).

Dr. Jamal Badawi endorses corporal punishment as "another measure that may save the marriage" (source). He isn't clear on how striking a woman will make her more inclined toward staying with her assailant, unless the implication is fear of more serious consequences if she leaves.

Egyptian cleric, Abd al-Rahman Mansour, said in a 2012 televised broadcast that, in addition to discouraging the wife from filing divorce, beatings would inspire the wife to "treat him with kindness and respect, and know that her husband has a higher status than her." (source)

During Ramadan of 2010, another cleric named Sa'd Arafat actually said the woman is "honored" by the beating (source). No one else seemed terribly surprised or upset by this.

An undercover report from progressive Sweden in 2012 found that 60% of mosques there actually advised beaten women not to report the abuse to the police. These women were also told that they must submit to non-consensual 'sex' with their husbands. (source)

In the birthplace of Islam, about half of Saudi women are beaten at home. "Hands and sticks were found to be used mostly in beating women, following by men’s head cover and to a lesser extent, sharp objects." (source)

According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:
- She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (ie. "let's herself go")
- She refuses to meet his sexual demands
- She leaves the house without his permission or for a "legitimate reason"
- She neglects her religious duties
Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce.

Respected Quran scholars in the past interpreted verse 4:34 with impressive candor. Tabari said that it means to "admonish them, but if they refused to repent, then tie them up in their homes and beat them until they obey Allah’s commands toward you." Qurtubi told wife-beaters to avoid breaking bones, if possible, but added that "it is not a crime if it leads to death." (source)

Muslim apologists sometimes say that Muhammad ordered that women not be harmed, but they are actually basing this on what he said before or during a battle, such as in Bukhari (59:447), when Muhammad issued a command for all the men of Quraiza be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. (Having your husband murdered and being forced into sexual slavery apparently doesn't qualify as "harm" under the Islamic model).

But, in fact, there are a number of cases in which Muhammad did have women killed in the most brutal fashion. One was Asma bint Marwan, a mother or five, who wrote a poem criticizing the Medinans for accepting Muhammad after he had ordered the murder of an elderly man. In this case, the prophet's assassins literally pulled a sleeping infant from her breast and stabbed her to death.

After taking Mecca in 630, Muhammad also ordered the murder of a slave girl who had merely made up songs mocking him. The Hadith are rife with accounts of women planted in the ground on Muhammad's command and pelted to death with stones for sexual immorality - yet the prophet of Islam actually encouraged his own men to rape women captured in battle (Abu Dawood 2150, Muslim 3433) and did not punish them for killing non-Muslim women (as Khalid ibn Walid did on several occasions - see Ibn Ishaq 838 and 856).

In summary, according to the Qur'an, Hadith and Islamic law, a woman may indeed have physical harm done to her if the circumstances warrant, with one such allowance being in the case of disobedience. This certainly does not mean that all Muslim men beat their wives, only that Islam permits them to do so.
 

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