important logic question

[scruffy]

The question is: does anyone know of a system of logic (or abstract algebra) that explicitly uses time ordering?

I'm specifically interested in the primitive called "after", as in A occurred after B.

In logic , if you just make a statement, X, there's no time element associated with it. It's basically "time independent".

If you go a tiny step further and say X "exists", there is an implicit time element attached to it, which is "now". It exists "now".

My question is, is there a time ordering implicit in an if-then statement? (The word "then" being suggestive...)

If you say, "if A then B", it kinda means you're going to check A first, right?

But it doesn't necessarily mean that B came "after" A, especially since we don't know anything more about A than its truth "now".

Are there any (probably non-commutative) logics where time ordering is made explicit?

 

[Woodznutz]

I'll consult with my navel and get back to you.

 

[1srelluc]

I'll consult with my navel and get back to you.

LOL.....I was watching "Better off Dead" yesterday and as soon as I read the OP I immediately thought of this scene.....Yeah it's geometry but who's counting.

 

[Anathema]

The “then” in an “if-then statement” can also be a matter of causation rather than indicating a time component.

 

[BackAgain]

The question is: does anyone know of a system of logic (or abstract algebra) that explicitly uses time ordering?

I'm specifically interested in the primitive called "after", as in A occurred after B.

In logic , if you just make a statement, X, there's no time element associated with it. It's basically "time independent".

If you go a tiny step further and say X "exists", there is an implicit time element attached to it, which is "now". It exists "now".

My question is, is there a time ordering implicit in an if-then statement? (The word "then" being suggestive...)

If you say, "if A then B", it kinda means you're going to check A first, right?

But it doesn't necessarily mean that B came "after" A, especially since we don't know anything more about A than its truth "now".

Are there any (probably non-commutative) logics where time ordering is made explicit?

If B cannot exist other than by dependence upon A, then “B ⊃ A” should work. [“⊃” = “implies.”]

 

[Donald H]

The “then” in an “if-then statement” can also be a matter of causation rather than indicating a time component.

You're right on that part at least.
As it relates to circuitry, he could approach it by referring to 'time delay' components.

If 'A' for 'X' minutes, then 'B'.

That's quite common.

 

[scruffy]

Okay, I found one. This is the type of thing I'm looking for:

Allen's interval algebra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Causation" implies time ordering. If A causes B then necessarily A came first (or at the same time).

I'm specifically interested in orders that aren't (or don't have to be) linear.

 

[scruffy]

This looks very promising. (Check the "references" section, especially #3).

GitHub - alreich/qualreas: Qualitative Reasoning: Spatio-Temporal Reasoning using Relation Algebras and Constraint Networks.

Qualitative Reasoning: Spatio-Temporal Reasoning using Relation Algebras and Constraint Networks. - GitHub - alreich/qualreas: Qualitative Reasoning: Spatio-Temporal Reasoning using Relation Alge...

github.com

We want to make statements like, "if I get the check then I'll give you the money Monday between noon and 5, and if I don't get it it'll have to be Tuesday"

 

[Wuwei]

The question is: does anyone know of a system of logic (or abstract algebra) that explicitly uses time ordering?

Markov chains

 

[scruffy]

Markov chains

Interesting answer.

You're suggesting I can derive a Hamiltonian from the logic?

 

[Wuwei]

Interesting answer.

You're suggesting I can derive a Hamiltonian from the logic?

No, I'm simply saying that Markov Chains is an example of time ordering in statistics. It has many applications.

 

[scruffy]

No, I'm simply saying that Markov Chains is an example of time ordering in statistics. It has many applications.

Quantum phase slip junction.

Google.

 

[Natural Citizen]

My question is, is there a time ordering implicit in an if-then statement? (The word "then" being suggestive...)

If you say, "if A then B", it kinda means you're going to check A first, right?

But it doesn't necessarily mean that B came "after" A, especially since we don't know anything more about A than its truth "now".

Are there any (probably non-commutative) logics where time ordering is made explicit?

To contend that something happened after, so it was by default caused by something that happened before is an ambiguity.

A very dangerous ambiguity, I'd add, in that it is often incorporated for purposeful deception in the information age.

Heck, this whole board, and many others like it, the media, political dialogue, it's all just one big exercise in post hoc/ergo propter hoc type dialogue.

 

[zaangalewa]

The question is: does anyone know of a system of logic (or abstract algebra) that explicitly uses time ordering?

I'm specifically interested in the primitive called "after", as in A occurred after B.

In logic , if you just make a statement, X, there's no time element associated with it. It's basically "time independent".

If you go a tiny step further and say X "exists", there is an implicit time element attached to it, which is "now". It exists "now".

My question is, is there a time ordering implicit in an if-then statement? (The word "then" being suggestive...)

If you say, "if A then B", it kinda means you're going to check A first, right?

But it doesn't necessarily mean that B came "after" A, especially since we don't know anything more about A than its truth "now".

Are there any (probably non-commutative) logics where time ordering is made explicit?

Every "cause -> effect" structure represents a time-like structure. In physics you are able to imagine a little quant of energy moving from A to B. The problem in philosophy: A cause could come also from the future. The problem in physics: An energy quant is able to come from nowhere (¿and perhaps also from nowhen?) - what also could be the future?

And in general: I do not know in the moment how the use of the English time grammar is in the daily life in your world because I never speak English on my own - but in my own German language I am meanwhile nearly a little angry about that all newspapers and TV-productions do not use the grammatical time structures of the German language any longer. I do not know why it is in this way - but for me it is an indicator that we Germans become stultified (¿became stultified?, ¿will become stultified?).

 

[zaangalewa]

LOL.....I was watching "Better off Dead" yesterday and as soon as I read the OP I immediately thought of this scene.....Yeah it's geometry but who's counting.

Do you know whether he had been able to solve the problem? I remember Einsteins wife Elsa in this context when she had visited a most spectacular telescope of her time. She asked what all this instruments and machines around her are good for. They answered: "This all is here to uncover the secrets of the universe." She answered a little frustrated: "My husband is always using the scuffs of his shirts to do so."