Immigration Policy

[5stringJeff]

Question: What should America's immigration policy be?

Specifically, should the US decrease immigration? Decrease it? Target specific countries? How should the US deal with illegal immigrants? How should the US deal with its borders with Canada and Mexico? Who should the US grant political asylum to?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Question: What should America's immigration policy be?

Specifically, should the US decrease immigration? Decrease it? Target specific countries? How should the US deal with illegal immigrants? How should the US deal with its borders with Canada and Mexico? Who should the US grant political asylum to?

Close the gates and get out the weaponry!

Just kidding.

Immigration will always be complicated because none of us (unless of Native American descent) can actually claim to be from this land. But, to the victors go the spoils so at some point, regulating immigration is important- it just takes someone much smarter than me to figure out how- so that our country becomes stronger rather than weaker. I think laws regarding immigration should be voted on one by one so that the cumulative effect can be measured.

Now, as for illegal immigrants, in my opinion they should be sent back to where they come from, given no $ or other aid here in this country until every American citizen and other legal immigrant's needs are satiated and permitted to apply for legal immigration which if granted should be under the assumption that they pay back the costs of deporting them the first time.

 

[Annie]

I believe it has been the immigrants from the very beginning that made this country great. With that said, I do not believe that axiom means that illegal immigration is right. I really do not care that our 16 year olds do not wish to work at McD's or picking fruit. I do believe that there would be legal immigrants and unemployed family members willing to fill these positions. If not, up the legal immigrant quotas.

The INS regulations are the fault of the juxtopositon between need and supply. Fix that.

 

[5stringJeff]

Here's my answer to my question:

I think that immigration to America should be tightly controlled. We should set a quota, by country, of how many immigrants can come into the country. We should not allow immigrants into the US from countries that sponsor terrorism, like Libya, Syria, Iran, etc. We should not allow immigrants to collect welfare or other similar government benefits.
Illegal immigrants... I think we should have our borders guarded by the military, not by the INS. Illegal immigrants should be immediately deported to their home countries.

 

[Psychoblues]

The subject of illegal immigration could be a boon or bust for both dominate American political parties. That's why neither address it in any other way than obliquely. Personally, I'm no longer in an active political role, I recognise that were it not for illegal immigration there would not be an America as we know it today.

As the world has changed and that there are certainly many more organized worldwide criminal elements that desire immigration to this land of supposed riches I think the policy needs to be one of strict or at least more careful examination.

My local convenience stores are all run by, I think, legal immigrants. The local motels as well. The county employs almost exclusively immigrants for our water and utility works. I really don't see any problem with that except that the immigrants tend to drive comparable wage rates down. Be that as it is.

The American IT industry is already feeling the pain as more and more IT gigs are being outsourced to India, the Phillipines and other places. The garment and heavy industrial manufacturing gigs got most of that pain during the Reagan assault on American jobs and they still lose out to this day for the same reasons. There was an 8 year hiatus to that phenomenon as Bill Clinton refused to grant huge tax breaks to industries that chose to move offshore but that is now history. Free trade is not free trade unless it is played on level playing ground. But that is a long and complicated subject.

I could go on and on but for now I'll just listen for a bit.

 

[Annie]

OK, my take. Illegals from any locale should be sent back to country of origin, unless exception made for persecution-bad news for Mexico.

I think that numbers and qualifications for needed immigrants should be updated annually, good news for Mexico.

My problem with current immigration rules are that we, the US, acknowledge a need for cheap labor, yet are unwilling to both up are quotas or enforce out laws. Did we learn nothing from 1775?

 

[Psychoblues]

Is that "need for cheap labor" of which you speak actually a "need" or is it simply a preference (as can be understandable) or is it a ploy for American employers to use to keep wage rates down while refusing benefit packages all the while keeping the bottom line looking real good for the investers?

Keep on screwing the workers and eventually the bottom line will go upside down along with our rather comfortable American standard of living.

 

[Annie]

What is it about capitalism you don't understand? I believe that is the question.

 

[Psychoblues]

There's probably a lot about the textbook version of capitalism that I don't understand. The business colleges are chock full of right wing ideologues that know nothing about practical capitalism and ignore even their own textbook examples.

But I don't want to bore you with facts. I'd rather entertain you with politicalese.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Question: What should America's immigration policy be?

Specifically, should the US decrease immigration? Decrease it? Target specific countries? How should the US deal with illegal immigrants? How should the US deal with its borders with Canada and Mexico? Who should the US grant political asylum to?

According to some of the Libs on here, America is despised throughout the world. Why would anyone want to immigrate here?

And once they arrive on their rubber rafts I say we nudge it right back into the water and let them float elsewhere.

Of course I'll need a new landscaper, short order cook & gas station pumper - I think I'll manage when I see Americans getting the jobs instead.

 

[eric]

Psycho,

With all respect I do not think you are in any position to speak about practical capitalism and workers benefits. If I am wrong please let me know how? Tell me your qualifications, and I will tell you mine.

 

[lilcountriegal]

This was an article I grabbed off WND. I agree with the author on pretty much all points. I wanted to open this back up for discussion because of the paragraph I've put in bold. Has anyone else heard this yet? I know it's just a "study", but I'm still dumbfounded that someone is even toying with this idea.



Bitten to death by ducks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 22, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

The cartoon is wonderful, but not funny.

Uncle Sam sits on a rock, sleeping. His chin rests on one hand, the other arm outstretched, palm up.

He is surrounded by a multitude of illegal aliens, piling up on and around his feet. They're climbing up the rock and surging over his lap, back, head and fill his outstretched hand.

He appears to be swarming with ants. It gives me chills.

I can't remember a political cartoon which so perfectly captures our situation. Illegals swarm across our borders and no one seems to care. The operative word is "illegal," but that's generally ignored.

"Garner" in the Washington Times should win a prize for this, but he probably won't. More than likely, he (and me too, because I like the cartoon) would be labeled "racist," the usual retort of those avoiding the truth.

This country is being overrun by illegal aliens. Millions are here and they keep coming.

There are many reasons why someone leaves their homeland for a new country. What makes this different – and dangerous – is they're doing it illegally.

They don't want to become Americans. If they did, they wouldn't begin by breaking federal law. Sneaking across the border does just that, but to hear tell, once they get here, they're no different than those who follow the laws.

But they are different. They steal into the country and lay claim to the rights and privileges of citizenship without earning or deserving them.

With the complicity of sometimes well-meaning – but always stupid, foolish people – and with the help of crass politicians, these lawbreakers become what the cartoon portrays: parasites overrunning and feeding on the host. Us. U.S.

Unfortunately, the host is ultimately destroyed, and that's what's in store for us if this invasion continues.

If you thought the president and his administration protect the value of citizenship, forget it. On this issue, George W. Bush might just as well be a Democrat.

Just before 9-11, he was ready to grant amnesty to illegals to pacify Mexico's President Fox. The terrorism put a temporary hold on that plan, but not on Mr. Fox's arrogance in demanding this country provide a safe haven and goodies for Mexican citizens his country doesn't want. He not only makes demands, he comes here and speaks to various state legislatures in Spanish no less!

Do we hear a word of rebuke for such effrontery? Not that I've heard.

And now there's Tom Ridge, the administration man in charge of Homeland Security. Does he see danger in these millions of unidentified, faceless lawbreakers in our midst? Apparently not. He wants them legalized. He said that "as a country, we have to come to grips with the presence of 8 to 12 million illegals – afford them some kind of legal status some way."

We do? – Why? – They break the law, infiltrate society, burden social services, welfare, education, medical, job, housing and legal system – and we have to make them legal? Get real, Tom.

He hedges, not calling it "citizenship."

It is or isn't. We don't have levels of citizenship Tom, in case you hadn't noticed.

Ridge says the government "wants" to provide "legal protection for people who entered the country illegally." He claimed it would enable us to identify them and that would ensure our security.

What was he smoking? If we can identify them as being illegal in order to legalize them, why don't we just deport them?

He actually said that after "legalizing" those already here, then we would crack down on anyone else sneaking across the border and "we have the resources to cope with it."

Oooh, I'll bet they're scared! I'm sorry. I'm getting a headache. If we have the resources, WHY HAVE WE ALLOWED 12 MILLION TO SNEAK IN?

Why has the Border Patrol been hamstrung by politicians so anxious for votes they're willing to sell U.S. out.

There's more. Ridge wants to give these newly protected illegals the right (!) to work here and have driver's licenses!

That those licenses, along with the ID cards issued by Mexican consulates across the country, would virtually ensure illegals would have all the perks and privileges our taxes will buy is something Tom Ridge conveniently ignores.

Think that's bad? A study just released by the University of California at Los Angeles wants the California Constitution amended so illegals can vote. Keep in mind that Mexicans who vote in this country are also allowed to vote in Mexican elections.

See where we're going? Borders are such a bother.

You can kiss them goodbye. God help U.S.

 

[Annie]

If you thought the president and his administration protect the value of citizenship, forget it. On this issue, George W. Bush might just as well be a Democrat.

We agree, pre-9/11, GWB displayed every impulse towards ignoring borders, he had great hopes in Hispanic vote. Post 9/11, some curtailment, but not from the South. He is delusional on this front.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

First, I won't claim to know any of the economic ramifications of kicking out all illegals, but I would guess that it would hurt our economy, as statistics I've heard say that they spend money(contributing to our tax dollars) but don't use very much tax dollars b/c they want to stay away from hospitals and other places to avoid being caught. Today I heard a guy from the UCLA say that they contribute 1 trillion dollars, but I cannot back that up.

From the Mexican perspective, I can't criticize them. I know I would try to run across the border every day.

I think the only realistic way of solving illegal immigration is to help mexico raise its unemployment rate from 40%, something that is outrageous considering they live next to the most powerful country in the world.

Has there ever been a time when America didn't have 2nd class citizens? If not, then who knows what would happen if we kicked them all out.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew

I think the only realistic way of solving illegal immigration is to help mexico raise its unemployment rate from 40%, something that is outrageous considering they live next to the most powerful country in the world.

Hey I've got an idea. If it is our duty to help out Mexico, let's send down to them some of the democrat primary canidates. They are all talking about job creation and growth. If Mexico is at 60% employement they would be thrilled to be at 96% employment.

 

[Annie]

Palestinian Jew-
I agree with you that new immigrants into this country have mostly faced a cool welcome, if they were lucky. However, in this case we are talking about ILLEGAL immigrants, from any country. For most states the most problematic has been Mexico, with its high unemployment and low wages.

However, I'm more concerned that our open borders can be a conduit for someone who is not trying to send a couple hundred dollars back home, but rather means harm to our country. The administration is going to have to deal with this problem.

 

[Moi]

I don't think immigrants in this country face a cool welcome. What other country can you come to in which you are automatically eligible for each and every benefit the majority of citizens of that country aren't even eligible to receive? They can get welfare, medicare, take our jobs, housing, social security & disability, etc. all without ever having to pay taxes prior to benefitting from them.

When most of our relatives came here, being an immigrant meant hard work, productive living and saving your money to get a better life. Now it means the easy way out. And, before, I hear a lot of responses saying that it's not easy being an immigrant, let me also state that it's not the country's job to make their lives easy. I was born here and my life isn't easy- not one time in my 4 decades on this earth, not one time has the government lent a hand to make anything easier for me or offered me a less difficult alternative. Since I just got my Social Security statement the other day I know that they know I've been paying taxes since I was 14 years old...it says so right there. So although immigrants may feel that they've received a cool welcome and their lives aren't easy when they come here so what???

 

[Annie]

Oh Moi, I agree with all you said regarding hard work, immigrant or not. I was referring moreso historically, with movements like the Nativists.

I think for at least 35-40 years, legal immigrants have not been treated as bad as the Irish, who were certainly not treated as badly as the Japanese and Chinese in the 19th C.

This is a tough place to live, but the rewards for hard work are enormous.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Moi
I don't think immigrants in this country face a cool welcome. What other country can you come to in which you are automatically eligible for each and every benefit the majority of citizens of that country aren't even eligible to receive? They can get welfare, medicare, take our jobs, housing, social security & disability, etc. all without ever having to pay taxes prior to benefitting from them.

Hehe... Canada!

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Hey I've got an idea. If it is our duty to help out Mexico, let's send down to them some of the democrat primary canidates.

Instead of throwing money and man hours at a obviously failed immigration system, why don't we go to the source of the problem and try to fix Mexico where the money and time would be better spent.