Im stunned: RW'ers here...Sandy Hook shootings "just part of being free"

[CMike]

Good point.

But, right now our society just doesnt have the political climate to fund and train an armed cop at all the entrances to our suburban schools. And...honestly, I doubt most teachers would be willing to carry a gun.

Many people dont like guns, and thats their right as Americans to be free to not carry one. Hell, we as a country owe them that freedom, to do what we have to do with other avenues to enable them to live without a gun if they feel like it.

Is that possible?

Teachers that won't do whatever it takes to protect the children under her care don't belong in the classroom.

Arming teachers would require them to get CQB combat training, like soldiers and swat cops do. Bullets amongst crowds of innocent people are risky.

So, are we ready to add CQB training on top of everything else our teachers have to do? Will we have to pay them more as a result? Will unions go along with that? Its not a bad idea allowing them to do that, just asking how it would work.

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

 

[akelch]

Hate and violence can not be legislated. Laws will not protect us from each other. I am for freedom as much as the next guy but to say that in a free society you should expect evil is a cop out.

Before any of us can address the issue of violent acts like this we must first ask ourselves....what is Evil and where does it come from?

 

[akelch]

These idiots didn't think that 'freedom' had that much charm when they were defending racial/ethnic profiling at airports,

or opposing the building of mosques.

Yeah. I was hoping to limit this to talk regarding the incident and curbing this trend. They took it to sodas, gay sex and other stuff.

I personally think all freedoms arent created equal.

For example, Im "free" to take myself and my kids to swim in the ocean at the beach. But...if lifeguards see sharks, they'll force me out of the water.

Should I be free to take my kid into shark infested waters? Or...does a society owe it to kids to stop someone who is insane from taking kids into that water?

Silly analogy, I know. Just as silly as the right wingers equating a discussion on how to stop the mass murder of children.......to a soda ban in NYC.

But the actual issue in one of individual liberties and freedoms.

You want to ignore the real issue.

This issue about mass murders like this has nothing to do with freedom...but everything to do with love.

 

[bucs90]

Teachers that won't do whatever it takes to protect the children under her care don't belong in the classroom.

Arming teachers would require them to get CQB combat training, like soldiers and swat cops do. Bullets amongst crowds of innocent people are risky.

So, are we ready to add CQB training on top of everything else our teachers have to do? Will we have to pay them more as a result? Will unions go along with that? Its not a bad idea allowing them to do that, just asking how it would work.

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

 

[Oddball]

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

Oh, so that would be the fault of the gun too, instead of the fat union ***** teacher, or the fools who allowed her to be a part of the program for armed school personnel?

 

[akelch]

Yeah. I was hoping to limit this to talk regarding the incident and curbing this trend. They took it to sodas, gay sex and other stuff.

I personally think all freedoms arent created equal.

For example, Im "free" to take myself and my kids to swim in the ocean at the beach. But...if lifeguards see sharks, they'll force me out of the water.

Should I be free to take my kid into shark infested waters? Or...does a society owe it to kids to stop someone who is insane from taking kids into that water?

Silly analogy, I know. Just as silly as the right wingers equating a discussion on how to stop the mass murder of children.......to a soda ban in NYC.

I notice you didn't want to tackle abortion, which is also a murder of innocents on an epidemic scale.

No, I didnt. Im persoally torn about that topic. As a flawed human, I cannot get a consistent viewpoint on it, so, I dont say much on abortion. I see points on both sides, and have never been in a position in which I had a personal decision with abortion to make.

Im just sick of cowards shooting up innocent crowds, and want it to stop. Whatever we can do to help stop it, Im ready to do.

I personally carry a Smith&Wesson M&P .45, and pray that should some coward try to do a mass shooting that he does it near me. I'd gladly risk my life to stop the cowardly pricks who do this shit. Thats my personal contribution to the problem, but its gonna take FAR MORE than a lot of individuals taking that action. Millions out there carry like me, and are willing to act. But...thats obviously not enough.

I am for guns rights too but arming the nation will not stop evil. People do these acts because they feel hate and not love.
It is our DUTY to love one another. And it is the outcasts of society that need our love the most.

God commanded us to love each other as we love ourselves...and this is the ONLY weapon that will destroy Evil.

 

[Stephanie]

Arming teachers would require them to get CQB combat training, like soldiers and swat cops do. Bullets amongst crowds of innocent people are risky.

So, are we ready to add CQB training on top of everything else our teachers have to do? Will we have to pay them more as a result? Will unions go along with that? Its not a bad idea allowing them to do that, just asking how it would work.

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

oh that's right, you know it all
You've become quite the irrational person

 

[Warrior102]

These idiots didn't think that 'freedom' had that much charm when they were defending racial/ethnic profiling at airports,

What do you know about "defending" anything, with the exception of a condom machine in a Men's Room.

******

 

[bucs90]

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

oh that's right, you know it all
You've become quite the irrational person

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

 

[CMike]

Arming teachers would require them to get CQB combat training, like soldiers and swat cops do. Bullets amongst crowds of innocent people are risky.

So, are we ready to add CQB training on top of everything else our teachers have to do? Will we have to pay them more as a result? Will unions go along with that? Its not a bad idea allowing them to do that, just asking how it would work.

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

Yeah...like what other training?

I took the class to get my CPL, plus advanced training in drawing and shooting, which covers shooting from concealment, cover, etc.

I think that would be sufficent for teachers.

 

[bucs90]

These idiots didn't think that 'freedom' had that much charm when they were defending racial/ethnic profiling at airports,

What do you know about "defending" anything, with the exception of a condom machine in a Men's Room.

******

That just HAS to be a real photo of you in your avatar, right?

 

[Oddball]

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

oh that's right, you know it all
You've become quite the irrational person

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

And the possibility that someone might shoot back wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to the nutjobs, would it?

 

[Stephanie]

I don't see a problem with a teacher taking some training for this if they want to..

They can be compensated for it as I do for the extra training I take

 

[bucs90]

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

Yeah...like what other training?

I took the class to get my CPL, plus advanced training in drawing and shooting, which covers shooting from concealment, cover, etc.

I think that would be sufficent for teachers.

Thats better than nothing. But, given the liability of carrying a gun in a public school, and the chance of needing to take a shot with dozens of innocent people running around, its more complex than a concealed carry class.

Target identification for one
SIM training to "harden" the mind to pulling the trigger on a real human and feeling something fly back at you
Tactical training for angles/hallways/doorways, etc.


There is a huge difference in training for pure SELF-defense, and training to combat an active shooter in an environment full of innocent people. Point and shoot is enough for defending self. What we're talking about asking our teachers to do is a far greater standard.

 

[bucs90]

oh that's right, you know it all
You've become quite the irrational person

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

And the possibility that someone might shoot back wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to the nutjobs, would it?

Oh, it would for sure. Im all for this idea.

Im just asking...

- Are we ready to fund the extra pay for all the teachers?
- Are we ready to take the liability, as surely problems will arise when a gun is in the classroom?
- Are the teachers willing to take up arms and train for something 99% will never see?

If we can do these 3 things, then its a possible addition to the solution.

 

[Stephanie]

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

And the possibility that someone might shoot back wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to the nutjobs, would it?

Oh, it would for sure. Im all for this idea.

Im just asking...

- Are we ready to fund the extra pay for all the teachers?
- Are we ready to take the liability, as surely problems will arise when a gun is in the classroom?
- Are the teachers willing to take up arms and train for something 99% will never see?

If we can do these 3 things, then its a possible addition to the solution.

they already GET PAID for training..what don't you get about that.
and teachers might surprise you in stepping up to do this...EVERYTHING to you is about MONEY

 

[Oddball]

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

And the possibility that someone might shoot back wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to the nutjobs, would it?

Oh, it would for sure. Im all for this idea.

Im just asking...

- Are we ready to fund the extra pay for all the teachers?
- Are we ready to take the liability, as surely problems will arise when a gun is in the classroom?
- Are the teachers willing to take up arms and train for something 99% will never see?

If we can do these 3 things, then its a possible addition to the solution.

The program would most likely be done on a voluntary basis.

All you would need is a relatively small level of participation in said program, to sow the seeds of doubt in the minds of the freaks who have been perpetrating these atrocities.

 

[CMike]

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

Yeah...like what other training?

I took the class to get my CPL, plus advanced training in drawing and shooting, which covers shooting from concealment, cover, etc.

I think that would be sufficent for teachers.

Thats better than nothing. But, given the liability of carrying a gun in a public school, and the chance of needing to take a shot with dozens of innocent people running around, its more complex than a concealed carry class.

Target identification for one
SIM training to "harden" the mind to pulling the trigger on a real human and feeling something fly back at you
Tactical training for angles/hallways/doorways, etc.


There is a huge difference in training for pure SELF-defense, and training to combat an active shooter in an environment full of innocent people. Point and shoot is enough for defending self. What we're talking about asking our teachers to do is a far greater standard.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I just made that up

Training for self defense and training for combat is the same thing. Training for self defense means you are training to stop someone from hurting you or a loved one.

A teacher should be trained to stop someone from hurting his/her or a student.

Obviously, being a former army ranger would be ideal. However, I think having some sort of advanced handgun training is sufficient.

At this point they are utterly defenseless, at least with a gun and some training they are not defenseless.

 

[CMike]

Ever been shot at? And had to draw a weapon to fight back?

Its not like shooting a paper zombie target at the local gun range.

If we dont train teachers well, they wont react well under that stress.

And the possibility that someone might shoot back wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to the nutjobs, would it?

Oh, it would for sure. Im all for this idea.

Im just asking...

- Are we ready to fund the extra pay for all the teachers?
- Are we ready to take the liability, as surely problems will arise when a gun is in the classroom?
- Are the teachers willing to take up arms and train for something 99% will never see?

If we can do these 3 things, then its a possible addition to the solution.

I think they should be reimbursed for the classes
The gun should be concealed unless needed, so problems shouldn't arise in the classroom.
They are not "taking up arms" they are carring a concealed firearms. Maybe 99% will never see, but how about the 1% they will see?

 

[KGB]

a drawing and shooting class would be good.

Despite what the local rednecks have told you, using a gun in a conflict against another armed human is far more complex than just a draw and shoot class. Its a good start, but if we arm out teachers, they'll need as much training as cops. Liability for one.

And just wait til one of those fat union ***** teachers gets angry in class and draws her weapon to scare her kids.

Opening another pandoras box just to fight one.

Yeah...like what other training?

I took the class to get my CPL, plus advanced training in drawing and shooting, which covers shooting from concealment, cover, etc.

I think that would be sufficent for teachers.

I took a three day hunters safety course when I was 12 to get my first hunting license. This would not be hard to offer to teachers. And as far as the kids go, why not mandate self-defense to include fire-arms as part of required school curricula. Most of these predators who do this sort of shit do so against soft targets. If they understand that someone else has been trained, they might pause. It's not a 100% solution, but why not try it?