Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[Seawytch]

A Unique Religious Exemption From Antidiscrimination Laws in the Case of Gays? Putting the Call for Exemptions for Those Who Discriminate Against Married or Marrying Gays in Context

 

[JoeB131]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

 

[Gadawg73]

I fully support gay rights.
I supported open service in the military for a long time.
I support equality in work place.
I have NO problem with gay marriage.
I have a problem with government having the power to tell me who I have to work for.

 

[martybegan]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

 

[Mathbud1]

The problem is that if we allow people to say they won't do business with gays because they don't agree with their lifestyle, that leaves the door open to not doing business with people because of race, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. It will create an apartheid nation, sanctioned by the government. That's unacceptable.

Funny how the left always accuses the right of slippery slope fallacies...

Shoe, meet other foot.

 

[Skylar]

My question is if 8 out of 10 provide the service they are looking for, then why continue to insist the remaining 2 comply? I get it... Gays are Rosa Parks in drag

-Geaux

Would you put up with 8 in 10 lunch counters serving blacks? Only 8 in 10 gas stations serving Christians?

Gays aren't looking for anything but to be treated equally and with basic human respect.

 

[Skylar]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

 

[martybegan]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

 

[bodecea]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

As would I.

 

[bodecea]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

And who makes that call? You?

 

[martybegan]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

As would I.

You are the ones using government to treat them like pieces of shit, which is far far worse, as you don't have the flaps to do it yourself.

 

[martybegan]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

And who makes that call? You?

Its pretty simple to figure out, and THAT is why we have courts, to interpret law, not create law.

 

[Skylar]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

You do realize that 'necessary commerce' is a completely notional concept, right? That you essentially just made it up? Was eating at the Woolworth lunch counters 'necessary'? Was riding the bus in Montgomery 'necessary'? Was being able to try on clothes before being able to buy them 'necessary'?

Basic codes of conduct for treating customers fairly should be universal. If you're dealing with the public in your commerce, on what basis would we allow unfair and unequal treatment if the commerce were deemed 'unnecessary'? Your standard is arbitrary, uselessly subjective, completely unnecessary, and fundamentally unjust.

Which is probably why it no one uses it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Gays could not have their weddings at the family's home on their farm before this lawsuit. They STILL can't have them at this home even after the fine. What did they "win"?

 

[martybegan]

Again, those people may seek forgiveness for past trangressions. The only way homosexuals can seek and get forgiveness is to stop performing homosexual acts.

and I love your internet tough guy posts, You can mouth off all you want without having to back it up like the cowardly **** you are.

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

You do realize that 'necessary commerce' is a completely notional concept, right? That you essentially just made it up? Was eating at the Woolworth lunch counters 'necessary'? Was riding the bus in Montgomery 'necessary'? Was being able to try on clothes before being able to buy them 'necessary'?

Basic codes of conduct for treating customers fairly should be universal. If you're dealing with the public in your commerce, on what basis would we allow unfair and unequal treatment if the commerce were deemed 'unnecessary'? Your standard is arbitrary, uselessly subjective, completely unnecessary, and fundamentally unjust.

Which is probably why it no one uses it.

So the religious store should sell the statue of jesus to a guy who will defecate on it? better yet, government should FORCE the sale?

and again, Jim Crow was government mandate, which we all agree is bad.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Again, you're the one here trying to rationalize your hate.

Sorry, when I go into your business looking for a service you offered to advertised, I'm not looking for your "forgiveness" for "Transgressions".

You are offering to make cakes for money. period.

The only thing I hate is people using government to force others to do things they don't want to do when it comes to non essential chickenshit like this.

A person providing a wedding cake is providing a direct service, not just baking 20 cakes and putting them on a display. In that case the person's sexuality would never even come up.

If we're talking about one's personal life, you and I are on the same page. But business is public and well within the authority of the State to regulate. And its completely reasonable to require those doing business in your State to subscribe to basic rules of conduct and fairness when dealing with their customers. Denying a customer service because they are a Catholic or a Jew or gay or black is simply unacceptable behavior in the public venue of commerce. As these are by their very nature public encounters.

If we're talking about religion in a church, or one's personal life, you should have the right to discriminate to your heart's content

Though for once, I'd like to see a conservative expression of 'freedom' that doesn't involve treating others like pieces of shit.

The government should only get involved in necessary commerce. Who you get to give you your wedding cake does not rise the to the level of necessary commerce. You are for forcing people to either choose to swallow their morals, or go out of buisiness, and that is quite frankly, bullshit. Only government should be forced to be neutral, and I can see certain point services, like fuel, hotels, staples and medical treatment.

These people do not want to treat "others like shit" they want to be left alone to provide the service of their choosing. YOU are advocating treating people like shit, and whats worse, using government to do it.

And who makes that call? You?

Its pretty simple to figure out, and THAT is why we have courts, to interpret law, not create law.

Marty, New York's anti-discrimination law that covers age, race, creed, color, national origin, sexual orientation, military status, sex, marital status, or disability was created by the Legislature and not the courts.



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Gays could not have their weddings at the family's home on their farm before this lawsuit. They STILL can't have them at this home even after the fine. What did they "win"?

No "home" was invaded. The farm is owned by Liberty Ridge Farms, LLC - the Giffords rent the barn which has 3-stories. The 2nd and 3rd are used as part of their private residence and the 1st floor is a 2400 square foot banquet hall which hey rent out for commerce.

Their "home" was no more in question then a pizza parlor owner who ran a shop out of the first floor and lived in an apartment on the 2nd floor of a business building.



>>>>

 

[Nosmo King]

I defend the religious. I oppose bigots. Religion provides no cover for bigotry.

You defend them only to the point where they can practice their religion in hiding, and can be forced to go against their beliefs when it comes to providing a product or service, that makes you the bigot.

Bigots embrace hatred. I, on the other hand, embrace liberty and equality.

Bigots have used the thin veneer of 'religion' to foment hate. Meanwhile, my understanding of religion is that of egalitarianism, love and peace.

Religion as an aegis for bigotry, is a perversion of religion.

Not wanting to attend something you find sinful is not "hatred." Not wanting to participate in a ceremony that celebrates something you find sinful is not hatred. You only embrace liberty and equality as long as those trying to experience it believe exactly in what you believe.

You have moved the goalposts on hatred to the point where all it means is disagreeing with someone on a social issue.

Wedding vendors are not invited guests? All a wedding vendor has to do is provide the services they are contracted to supply. Refusing to provide said services on the grounds that your 'religion' prohibits business dealings with homosexuals is the topic, not participating in or attending the wedding. No florist is expected to do anything beyond providing floral arrangements. They don't bring a food processor wrapped in silver paper as a gift. Those florists aren't called upon to light a candle in the church or make a toast at the reception. They are expected to provide the same services at any other wedding they have been contracted for.

You have moved the goalposts and now claim wedding vendors as honored guests and participants.

They attend, their products are services are provided for a celebration of something they find sinful. Why you people hang up on it being a business vs. a private person is beyond me. You are forcing someone to do something they do not want to do by government fiat.

Lets use an argumentum ad absurdum example. Would a religious store be forced to sell a statue a Jesus to a Satanist who has stated his intent to defecate on the statue and smash it into bits afterwards?

Yes they should sell the statue. Once the price is paid, it's entirely up to the customer what they should do with their purchase. It is, after all, a statue, not a relic.

What about a DJ who plays for a bar party on Friday night where homosexuals are dancing to a lively three song set by the Indigo Girls, and then the DJ packs up his gear for a Saturday afternoon same sex wedding. He may hate the idea of playing at a same sex wedding. But he played last night for a crowd including homosexuals.

Is a wedding any different? Are marriages only legitimate if the vendors who service that wedding approve?

 

[Katzndogz]

Gays could not have their weddings at the family's home on their farm before this lawsuit. They STILL can't have them at this home even after the fine. What did they "win"?

No "home" was invaded. The farm is owned by Liberty Ridge Farms, LLC - the Giffords rent the barn which has 3-stories. The 2nd and 3rd are used as part of their private residence and the 1st floor is a 2400 square foot banquet hall which hey rent out for commerce.

Their "home" was no more in question then a pizza parlor owner who ran a shop out of the first floor and lived in an apartment on the 2nd floor of a business building.



>>>>

Since gays still cannot have their weddings at this location what did they win?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Gays could not have their weddings at the family's home on their farm before this lawsuit. They STILL can't have them at this home even after the fine. What did they "win"?

No "home" was invaded. The farm is owned by Liberty Ridge Farms, LLC - the Giffords rent the barn which has 3-stories. The 2nd and 3rd are used as part of their private residence and the 1st floor is a 2400 square foot banquet hall which hey rent out for commerce.

Their "home" was no more in question then a pizza parlor owner who ran a shop out of the first floor and lived in an apartment on the 2nd floor of a business building.



>>>>

Since gays still cannot have their weddings at this location what did they win?

The business now accurately advertizes their business model as Liberty Ridge Farms doesn't put forth to the pubic that they hold wedding ceremonies on property. LRF though still provides for wedding receptions - irregardless of the gender of the married couple.



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