Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[Seawytch]

Do they sell porkchops to other customers, but not you?

Gay wedding cake, straight wedding cake, pork, beef, meat is meat. food is food. Its all what you define as equal.

If someone sells wedding cakes to the public, they cannot discriminate. HOWEVER, if they do not sell wedding cakes to the public, PA (public accomodation) laws do not apply in forcing them to make a wedding cake for anyone.

That assumes a Same sex and opposite sex wedding cake are the same thing. They are not. they are celebrating two unique things.

That assumes a catholic wedding and a jewish wedding are the same thing. They are not. They are celebrating two unique things.

You don't see Catholics going around trying to force jews to hold a catholic wedding, or host one. The same goes for the opposite direction.

Nobody is doing that. Couple walks into baker, orders cake #3 out of catalog. Baker bakes cake. End of transaction.

If the couple asks for something not in the catalog, the baker says "I'm sorry, we don't do that".

You guys create these strawmen about Jewish deli's being asked to sell non kosher products. Nobody has asked for a product the business does not provide...they just don't want to provide it to "those people"...which often runs them afoul of the law.

 

[Seawytch]

Do they sell porkchops to other customers, but not you?

Gay wedding cake, straight wedding cake, pork, beef, meat is meat. food is food. Its all what you define as equal.

So does the Halal butcher shop sell pork chops to anyone?

Its a simple question.

Does a wedding chapel provide same sex marriage weddings? Does a baker provide cakes with groom/groom-bride/bride on top?

What you are arguing is that a pork chop is the same as a beef brisket, i.e. SSM and OSM are the same in every single respect, and one equals the other in both law and practice.

Which chapel are you referring to?

As for the baker, they make cakes. Does the Halal butcher shop sell pork chops? You've avoided my question like it were on fire. Why run if your claims have merit.

Do the Halal butcher shops sell pork chops to *anyone*? Yes or no. We both know the answer. Its just fun to watch you flee from it.

This isn't a real time message board, accusations of "fleeing" when no instant response is given is a hack move.

When it comes to wedding cakes, you just don't bake it, you deliver it, you attend the ceremony, you interact with the event. it would be like brining in a halal guy and having him cook pork, nevermind selling it.

You bake the cake, you deliver the cake (if delivery is part of the transaction), you leave.

Nobody is being asked to provide a service they do not already provide.

 

[Geaux4it]

My question is if 8 out of 10 provide the service they are looking for, then why continue to insist the remaining 2 comply? I get it... Gays are Rosa Parks in drag

-Geaux

 

[martybegan]

Why does that business owner have to express his disapproval? Is a wedding only a legitimate wedding if it has the empremator of a wedding vendor?

You have overplayed your hand. Not content with equal rights, you sought instead to impose your beliefs on others through force - you expected public support and are now surprised that the public reviles you.

I support your right to do whatever you please, insofar that you do not infringe the rights of others. Because you have violated the second precept. you lose the support of those who advocate for civil rights.

First understand this: I am not Gay. I am an American citizen who will defend my fellow citizens against discrimination. There is simply no rationalization, no justification for an ignorant bigot to create a second class of citizen merely for his own amusement.

Bigots always wrap themselves in a concept that is foreign to them: civil rights. There is no right to belittle, discriminate and marginalized a group of law abiding citizens. There is no "right" to discriminate against folks who are sober, law abiding, mature paying customers simply because they belong to a group you don't understand.

You just choose to discriminate against religious folks, and you use big daddy government to do it.

It makes you a statist, and a coward.

How are "religious folks" being discriminated against?

by being forced to either perform a service, pay a fine, or go out of business.

 

[martybegan]

Gay wedding cake, straight wedding cake, pork, beef, meat is meat. food is food. Its all what you define as equal.

So does the Halal butcher shop sell pork chops to anyone?

Its a simple question.

Does a wedding chapel provide same sex marriage weddings? Does a baker provide cakes with groom/groom-bride/bride on top?

What you are arguing is that a pork chop is the same as a beef brisket, i.e. SSM and OSM are the same in every single respect, and one equals the other in both law and practice.

Which chapel are you referring to?

As for the baker, they make cakes. Does the Halal butcher shop sell pork chops? You've avoided my question like it were on fire. Why run if your claims have merit.

Do the Halal butcher shops sell pork chops to *anyone*? Yes or no. We both know the answer. Its just fun to watch you flee from it.

This isn't a real time message board, accusations of "fleeing" when no instant response is given is a hack move.

When it comes to wedding cakes, you just don't bake it, you deliver it, you attend the ceremony, you interact with the event. it would be like brining in a halal guy and having him cook pork, nevermind selling it.

You bake the cake, you deliver the cake (if delivery is part of the transaction), you leave.

Nobody is being asked to provide a service they do not already provide.

You are not the one being asked to go against their moral compass.

 

[martybegan]

Gay wedding cake, straight wedding cake, pork, beef, meat is meat. food is food. Its all what you define as equal.

If someone sells wedding cakes to the public, they cannot discriminate. HOWEVER, if they do not sell wedding cakes to the public, PA (public accomodation) laws do not apply in forcing them to make a wedding cake for anyone.

That assumes a Same sex and opposite sex wedding cake are the same thing. They are not. they are celebrating two unique things.

That assumes a catholic wedding and a jewish wedding are the same thing. They are not. They are celebrating two unique things.

You don't see Catholics going around trying to force jews to hold a catholic wedding, or host one. The same goes for the opposite direction.

Nobody is doing that. Couple walks into baker, orders cake #3 out of catalog. Baker bakes cake. End of transaction.

If the couple asks for something not in the catalog, the baker says "I'm sorry, we don't do that".

You guys create these strawmen about Jewish deli's being asked to sell non kosher products. Nobody has asked for a product the business does not provide...they just don't want to provide it to "those people"...which often runs them afoul of the law.

So what about the wedding hall? What about the photographer who HAS to attend? The baker is only on example of your desire to either make people accept your lifestyle or ruin them.

 

[martybegan]

So.....since the thread seems to have been abandoned by some of our more conservative posters, I'll ask the question to anyone:

Do Halal butcher shops sell porkchops to anyone?

They sell brisket, but you WANT them to sell porkchops, and you make the government force them to do it, because "discrimination"

Brisket isn't pork. I guess the reason you don't understand the law is that it is simply beyond your comprehension that there is a major difference between an organization that offers a service to some, but not all.....and an organization that doesn't offer a particular service to anyone.

What I understand is you are a statist busybody ****.

 

[martybegan]

Gay wedding cake, straight wedding cake, pork, beef, meat is meat. food is food. Its all what you define as equal.

If someone sells wedding cakes to the public, they cannot discriminate. HOWEVER, if they do not sell wedding cakes to the public, PA (public accomodation) laws do not apply in forcing them to make a wedding cake for anyone.

That assumes a Same sex and opposite sex wedding cake are the same thing. They are not. they are celebrating two unique things.

That assumes a catholic wedding and a jewish wedding are the same thing. They are not. They are celebrating two unique things.

You don't see Catholics going around trying to force jews to hold a catholic wedding, or host one. The same goes for the opposite direction.

If a jewish wedding planner refused to host a catholic wedding, they would be subject to the same law.....didn't you know that?

But 1) Catholics wouldn't feel the need to force them to do it and 2), well look at response 1.

 

[Seawytch]

If someone sells wedding cakes to the public, they cannot discriminate. HOWEVER, if they do not sell wedding cakes to the public, PA (public accomodation) laws do not apply in forcing them to make a wedding cake for anyone.

That assumes a Same sex and opposite sex wedding cake are the same thing. They are not. they are celebrating two unique things.

That assumes a catholic wedding and a jewish wedding are the same thing. They are not. They are celebrating two unique things.

You don't see Catholics going around trying to force jews to hold a catholic wedding, or host one. The same goes for the opposite direction.

Nobody is doing that. Couple walks into baker, orders cake #3 out of catalog. Baker bakes cake. End of transaction.

If the couple asks for something not in the catalog, the baker says "I'm sorry, we don't do that".

You guys create these strawmen about Jewish deli's being asked to sell non kosher products. Nobody has asked for a product the business does not provide...they just don't want to provide it to "those people"...which often runs them afoul of the law.

So what about the wedding hall? What about the photographer who HAS to attend? The baker is only on example of your desire to either make people accept your lifestyle or ruin them.

Doing your JOB is not "forced acceptance" drama queens. Your job is to take pictures. Take the pictures, go home and cash the check. That doesn't make you accept anything. You're just doing your job. If it bothers YOU that much, subcontract for the day.

If you rent your facility out for weddings, you're just renting the facility, you're not walking the couple down the aisle.

1967 folks...it's not suddenly tyranny just 'cause it's the gays wanting a wedding cake and not some n-word wanting to sit at the lunch counter.

 

[martybegan]

That assumes a Same sex and opposite sex wedding cake are the same thing. They are not. they are celebrating two unique things.

That assumes a catholic wedding and a jewish wedding are the same thing. They are not. They are celebrating two unique things.

You don't see Catholics going around trying to force jews to hold a catholic wedding, or host one. The same goes for the opposite direction.

Nobody is doing that. Couple walks into baker, orders cake #3 out of catalog. Baker bakes cake. End of transaction.

If the couple asks for something not in the catalog, the baker says "I'm sorry, we don't do that".

You guys create these strawmen about Jewish deli's being asked to sell non kosher products. Nobody has asked for a product the business does not provide...they just don't want to provide it to "those people"...which often runs them afoul of the law.

So what about the wedding hall? What about the photographer who HAS to attend? The baker is only on example of your desire to either make people accept your lifestyle or ruin them.

Doing your JOB is not "forced acceptance" drama queens. Your job is to take pictures. Take the pictures, go home and cash the check. That doesn't make you accept anything. You're just doing your job. If it bothers YOU that much, subcontract for the day.

If you rent your facility out for weddings, you're just renting the facility, you're not walking the couple down the aisle.

1967 folks...it's not suddenly tyranny just 'cause it's the gays wanting a wedding cake and not some n-word wanting to sit at the lunch counter.

Or you go somewhere else, which is much much simpler.

Why does who you like to bugger make you some special flower?

 

[Kondor3]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

 

[bodecea]

My question is if 8 out of 10 provide the service they are looking for, then why continue to insist the remaining 2 comply? I get it... Gays are Rosa Parks in drag

-Geaux

We can ask the same of any black person looking to be served lunch in the 50s....why didn't they just go to the places that served black people...why did they have to stir up trouble by going to Woolworths lunch counters?

 

[martybegan]

My question is if 8 out of 10 provide the service they are looking for, then why continue to insist the remaining 2 comply? I get it... Gays are Rosa Parks in drag

-Geaux

We can ask the same of any black person looking to be served lunch in the 50s....why didn't they just go to the places that served black people...why did they have to stir up trouble by going to Woolworths lunch counters?

In that case it was government mandated discrimination, which is what you are supporting now.

 

[bodecea]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

 

[Redfish]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

nope, but you are asking the government to dictate what others are allowed to believe.

This issue is much bigger than gay marriage and bakers.

This is about freedom of belief and thought.

Do you fools really want a government that punishes its citizens if they do not think and say what the government dictates?

 

[Katzndogz]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

nope, but you are asking the government to dictate what others are allowed to believe.

This issue is much bigger than gay marriage and bakers.

This is about freedom of belief and thought.

Do you fools really want a government that punishes its citizens if they do not think and say what the government dictates?

Yes. That is exactly what they want.

 

[martybegan]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

nope, but you are asking the government to dictate what others are allowed to believe.

This issue is much bigger than gay marriage and bakers.

This is about freedom of belief and thought.

Do you fools really want a government that punishes its citizens if they do not think and say what the government dictates?

and over something as trivial as having to get another baker/photographer/hall for your wedding.

This isn't a black family being denied a hotel room at 11 PM at night, its not being denied gasoline in Iowa because you are gay, its not being told to sit in the back of the bus.

 

[Redfish]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

nope, but you are asking the government to dictate what others are allowed to believe.

This issue is much bigger than gay marriage and bakers.

This is about freedom of belief and thought.

Do you fools really want a government that punishes its citizens if they do not think and say what the government dictates?

and over something as trivial as having to get another baker/photographer/hall for your wedding.

This isn't a black family being denied a hotel room at 11 PM at night, its not being denied gasoline in Iowa because you are gay, its not being told to sit in the back of the bus.

exactly, and not one of our lib/gays can tell us why they would want to do business with an anti-gay baker.

We know the answer, but not one of them is honest enough to admit it.

 

[bodecea]

My question is if 8 out of 10 provide the service they are looking for, then why continue to insist the remaining 2 comply? I get it... Gays are Rosa Parks in drag

-Geaux

We can ask the same of any black person looking to be served lunch in the 50s....why didn't they just go to the places that served black people...why did they have to stir up trouble by going to Woolworths lunch counters?

In that case it was government mandated discrimination, which is what you are supporting now.

How is it discrimination to require a business to NOT discriminate?

 

[bodecea]

Is this goddamned thread still on its feet?

These butt-boys and carpet-munchers are getting far too much attention - disproportionate to their numbers and importance to society.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, give it a frigging rest, already.

We're too uppity?

nope, but you are asking the government to dictate what others are allowed to believe.

This issue is much bigger than gay marriage and bakers.

This is about freedom of belief and thought.

Do you fools really want a government that punishes its citizens if they do not think and say what the government dictates?

and over something as trivial as having to get another baker/photographer/hall for your wedding.

This isn't a black family being denied a hotel room at 11 PM at night, its not being denied gasoline in Iowa because you are gay, its not being told to sit in the back of the bus.

So...there's a level under which discrimination against fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens is acceptable?