Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[Nosmo King]

Are you trying to convert homosexuals? What is it on this issue you want to change?

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

 

[Pop23]

Are you trying to convert homosexuals? What is it on this issue you want to change?

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

They do not want to be part of the enabling of the dilussional

 

[SwimExpert]

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

Because they don't want to, and they don't have to. That's the sane, legal reason.

 

[BlackSand]

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

I didn't say a damned thing about tolerance ... You seem to have some kind of fascination with it though. I mentioned respect which is a far cry from tolerance ... And I mention the desire to earn it which doesn't have a thing to do with demanding anything.

Because you are an American taxpaying citizen, have money, served in the military, are sober or mature ... Doesn't mean I owe you anything. I never mentioned I treated homosexuals any different than anyone else ... They have to earn respect just the same as the rest in my book.

.

 

[Nosmo King]

Are you trying to convert homosexuals? What is it on this issue you want to change?

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

They do not want to be part of the enabling of the dilussional

Delusional? In your opinion, or are you saying homosexuality is, by its nature, delusional?

What studies can you cite backing up a claim of delusional? What defines 'delusional'? Is, in your opinion, homosexuality a mental condition? Where do the experts come down on that?

 

[Nosmo King]

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

I didn't say a damned thing about tolerance ... You seem to have some kind of fascination with it though. I mentioned respect which is a far cry from tolerance ... And I mention the desire to earn it which doesn't have a thing to do with demanding anything.

Because you are an American taxpaying citizen, have money, served in the military, are sober or mature ... Doesn't mean I owe you anything. I never mentioned I treated homosexuals any different than anyone else ... They have to earn respect just the same as the rest in my book.

.

What's disrespectful about being a paying customer?

 

[Pop23]

Are you trying to convert homosexuals? What is it on this issue you want to change?

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

They do not want to be part of the enabling of the dilussional

Delusional? In your opinion, or are you saying homosexuality is, by its nature, delusional?

What studies can you cite backing up a claim of delusional? What defines 'delusional'? Is, in your opinion, homosexuality a mental condition? Where do the experts come down on that?

What studies?

Observing a group that denies reality requires no studies. Do you need studies to understand that no child has ever been born from a same sex coupling? Do you need a study to understand it takes opposing sex couplings to create human life?

If you need studies to show the obvious, you are either one of the delusional or looking for a reason for your enabling.

 

[BlackSand]

What's disrespectful about being a paying customer?

There is nothing disrespectful about being a paying customer .... And it doesn't necessarily earn you any respect either. I can do business with anyone I want ... It doesn't mean they have earned any respect. Maybe your idea of respect is not the same as mine... People can be polite without respecting each other.

At the same time, I add more value to respect. It is like trust ... You cannot demand someone to trust you. No matter how sternly you demand someone to respect you ... It will never make them give you any respect that really means anything ... Although you may garner involuntary compliance.

.

 

[Dana7360]

The problem is that if we allow people to say they won't do business with gays because they don't agree with their lifestyle, that leaves the door open to not doing business with people because of race, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. It will create an apartheid nation, sanctioned by the government. That's unacceptable.

Point taken, but at the same time, shouldn't business owners be allowed to do business with whom they choose to some extent? And if so to what extent?

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public. 'We don't serve your kind here' isn't generally accepted as legally valid reasoning.

Can you show me where in the Constitution it states that?

Thanks.

Mark

The 14th Amendment. Everyone is treated equally under the law.

Also, when the business owner applies and receives a business license they agree to comply with all state and federal laws that govern business.

Then there's our equal rights and civil rights laws that say that if you do business with the public you must do it with ALL the public. A business owner can't pick and choose who they sell to.

Then there's also our discrimination laws. Specifically discrimination against a person's sex. That business owner denied those people their services because one of them is of the wrong sex according to the business owner. Which is very illegal according to our sexual discrimination laws.

Just suppose you live in a small town and there's only one place in town that performs wedding ceremonies. There isn't another place to get married within at least 100 miles. When you go there the owner of the establishment denies you that ceremony just because of our sex. Will you allow them to break the law and discriminate against you? Or will you do what real Americans do and stand up for your rights?

 

[turtledude]

The problem is that if we allow people to say they won't do business with gays because they don't agree with their lifestyle, that leaves the door open to not doing business with people because of race, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. It will create an apartheid nation, sanctioned by the government. That's unacceptable.

Point taken, but at the same time, shouldn't business owners be allowed to do business with whom they choose to some extent? And if so to what extent?

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public. 'We don't serve your kind here' isn't generally accepted as legally valid reasoning.

Can you show me where in the Constitution it states that?

Thanks.

Mark

The 14th Amendment. Everyone is treated equally under the law.

Also, when the business owner applies and receives a business license they agree to comply with all state and federal laws that govern business.

Then there's our equal rights and civil rights laws that say that if you do business with the public you must do it with ALL the public. A business owner can't pick and choose who they sell to.

Then there's also our discrimination laws. Specifically discrimination against a person's sex. That business owner denied those people their services because one of them is of the wrong sex according to the business owner. Which is very illegal according to our sexual discrimination laws.

Just suppose you live in a small town and there's only one place in town that performs wedding ceremonies. There isn't another place to get married within at least 100 miles. When you go there the owner of the establishment denies you that ceremony just because of our sex. Will you allow them to break the law and discriminate against you? Or will you do what real Americans do and stand up for your rights?

real rights don't impose an affirmative duty on others

this does

therefore I believe the law is wrong and should be ended. you should have an absolute right to serve or not serve whom you please

 

[bodecea]

Are you trying to convert homosexuals? What is it on this issue you want to change?

What silly notion gives you the idea I would try to convert homosexuals ... Convert them to what? I want people to desire earning respect from one another ... And to understand that requires more than demanding it.

.

How does a homosexual patron of a wedding chapel, photographer, florist, baker or any other businesses open to the public demand tolerance? They come to these merchants and vendors with money in their hands. They come as American citizens and taxpayers. They come as serving military personnel, as veterans. They come sober, mature, free.

What reason, what sane legal reason would anyone have to treat them differently from any other American citizen?

They do not want to be part of the enabling of the dilussional

Delusional? In your opinion, or are you saying homosexuality is, by its nature, delusional?

What studies can you cite backing up a claim of delusional? What defines 'delusional'? Is, in your opinion, homosexuality a mental condition? Where do the experts come down on that?

What studies?

Observing a group that denies reality requires no studies. Do you need studies to understand that no child has ever been born from a same sex coupling? Do you need a study to understand it takes opposing sex couplings to create human life?

If you need studies to show the obvious, you are either one of the delusional or looking for a reason for your enabling.

What does that have to do with legal marriage and businesses not being allowed to discriminate?

And there's one other poster here who goes on about "coupling"......

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

The problem is that if we allow people to say they won't do business with gays because they don't agree with their lifestyle, that leaves the door open to not doing business with people because of race, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. It will create an apartheid nation, sanctioned by the government. That's unacceptable.

Point taken, but at the same time, shouldn't business owners be allowed to do business with whom they choose to some extent? And if so to what extent?

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public. 'We don't serve your kind here' isn't generally accepted as legally valid reasoning.

Can you show me where in the Constitution it states that?

Thanks.

Mark

The 14th Amendment. Everyone is treated equally under the law.

Also, when the business owner applies and receives a business license they agree to comply with all state and federal laws that govern business.

Then there's our equal rights and civil rights laws that say that if you do business with the public you must do it with ALL the public. A business owner can't pick and choose who they sell to.

Then there's also our discrimination laws. Specifically discrimination against a person's sex. That business owner denied those people their services because one of them is of the wrong sex according to the business owner. Which is very illegal according to our sexual discrimination laws.

Just suppose you live in a small town and there's only one place in town that performs wedding ceremonies. There isn't another place to get married within at least 100 miles. When you go there the owner of the establishment denies you that ceremony just because of our sex. Will you allow them to break the law and discriminate against you? Or will you do what real Americans do and stand up for your rights?

Under the law moron. My business is not the law.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And I still have to ask, how stupid and childish are faggots that they want to FORCE people to take their money?

I go into a business and they don't treat me like I'm the most important person in the world, I carry my debit card on out of there and find somewhere that does.

I don't financially reward people who don't like me.

Stupid fags.

 

[Dana7360]

Point taken, but at the same time, shouldn't business owners be allowed to do business with whom they choose to some extent? And if so to what extent?

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public.

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

This time its different. Homosexuality is a sin, according to the bible. Being "black" wasn't.

Mark

If you're a christian then why are you quoting the Tora? The old testament is jewish faith. The new testament is the christian faith. jesus never said one word about homosexuality. In fact, jesus hung out with 12 men, never married and never had kids.

The old testament says to not eat pork or shellfish, or not wear clothes made from 2 different fabrics or to not wear glasses. The old testament also says that life starts when the first breath of air is taken through the nose. Yet christians insist that the bible says life starts at conception. So if you want to use the old testament to discriminate against gay people then you better be ready to believe that life starts with when the first breath of air is taken through the nose. You better not eat shellfish, don't wear glasses and don't eat pork.

If you want to follow the Tora then convert and become jewish. If you want to remain christian then you should follow the christian gospel. Not the jewish one.

jesus said that you should sell everything you have and give the money to the poor. When did you do that? jesus said that you're supposed to feed those who are hungry and clothe those who are cold. When did you do that? jesus said what you've done to the least of our brothers and sisters you've done to me. When did you do that? jesus also said not to judge anyone, that's the job of the christian god.

I find it very hypocritical of christians who pick and choose what parts of the christian bible they want to follow. Who also pick and choose what parts of the jewish gospels they follow.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public.

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

This time its different. Homosexuality is a sin, according to the bible. Being "black" wasn't.

Mark

If you're a christian then why are you quoting the Tora? The old testament is jewish faith. The new testament is the christian faith. jesus never said one word about homosexuality. In fact, jesus hung out with 12 men, never married and never had kids.

The old testament says to not eat pork or shellfish, or not wear clothes made from 2 different fabrics or to not wear glasses. The old testament also says that life starts when the first breath of air is taken through the nose. Yet christians insist that the bible says life starts at conception. So if you want to use the old testament to discriminate against gay people then you better be ready to believe that life starts with when the first breath of air is taken through the nose. You better not eat shellfish, don't wear glasses and don't eat pork.

If you want to follow the Tora then convert and become jewish. If you want to remain christian then you should follow the christian gospel. Not the jewish one.

jesus said that you should sell everything you have and give the money to the poor. When did you do that? jesus said that you're supposed to feed those who are hungry and clothe those who are cold. When did you do that? jesus said what you've done to the least of our brothers and sisters you've done to me. When did you do that? jesus also said not to judge anyone, that's the job of the christian god.

I find it very hypocritical of christians who pick and choose what parts of the christian bible they want to follow. Who also pick and choose what parts of the jewish gospels they follow.

That's all deflection.

I shouldn't have to serve you if I don't want to . PERIOD.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And I still have to ask, how stupid and childish are faggots that they want to FORCE people to take their money?

I go into a business and they don't treat me like I'm the most important person in the world, I carry my debit card on out of there and find somewhere that does.

I don't financially reward people who don't like me.

Stupid fags.

You guys have created such an interesting narrative in your heads.

Nothing about this story includes any gay people trying to "force" this woman to host their weddings.

A lesbian couple tried to hire the place, and were refused - so they complained to the state, and had their wedding somewhere else.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And I still have to ask, how stupid and childish are faggots that they want to FORCE people to take their money?

I go into a business and they don't treat me like I'm the most important person in the world, I carry my debit card on out of there and find somewhere that does.

I don't financially reward people who don't like me.

Stupid fags.

You guys have created such an interesting narrative in your heads.

Nothing about this story includes any gay people trying to "force" this woman to host their weddings.

A lesbian couple tried to hire the place, and were refused - so they complained to the state, and had their wedding somewhere else.

I'm not posting about just this ONE case.

But as for this ONE case, why would they complain to the state at all? Just take your gay ass somewhere else.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And I still have to ask, how stupid and childish are faggots that they want to FORCE people to take their money?

I go into a business and they don't treat me like I'm the most important person in the world, I carry my debit card on out of there and find somewhere that does.

I don't financially reward people who don't like me.

Stupid fags.

You guys have created such an interesting narrative in your heads.

Nothing about this story includes any gay people trying to "force" this woman to host their weddings.

A lesbian couple tried to hire the place, and were refused - so they complained to the state, and had their wedding somewhere else.

I'm not posting about just this ONE case.

But as for this ONE case, why would they complain to the state at all? Just take your gay ass somewhere else.

Because they were disrespectfully refused a service because of their sexual orientation, the action of which violated state law.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Maybe we should make Levitcus 20:13 the law instead...!????...!??? I mean it's what the Muslims do...and liberals love Muslims!

 

[bodecea]

And I still have to ask, how stupid and childish are faggots that they want to FORCE people to take their money?

I go into a business and they don't treat me like I'm the most important person in the world, I carry my debit card on out of there and find somewhere that does.

I don't financially reward people who don't like me.

Stupid fags.

You guys have created such an interesting narrative in your heads.

Nothing about this story includes any gay people trying to "force" this woman to host their weddings.

A lesbian couple tried to hire the place, and were refused - so they complained to the state, and had their wedding somewhere else.

Their fantasy only works when it is a....fantasy.