If you take the emotion out of being republican, you become liberal

[IlarMeilyr]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

And even with it all they have are silly and often mis-understood talking points. And they are the ones who fail to understand those talking points.

 

[hipeter924]

I have met plenty of righties who are un-emotional and logical, as even offending them didn't stop them befriendeding me.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Southern Poverty Law Center did not invent these incidents. This is straight reporting of facts, so unless you can prove these rightwing extremists don't exist, attacking the source is useless.

And they are rightwing extremists. People's views don't fall outside the political spectrum, as conservatives like to claim whenever their whackos are brought up. This isn't religion; you can't just No-True-Scotsman these nuts whenever they do terrible things.

You have to prove that being right wing has something to do with their propensity to violence. You haven't done that.

No. You have to prove that being Muslim has something to do with their propensity to violence. At which point I will accept that cracking down on Muslim immigration will reduce terror attacks, with the caveat that now we also have to strongly consider cracking down on people with rightwing political beliefs. Since clearly the actions of a few can define a giant group of people.

The Koran is full of versus saying Kill the infidels.

Qur’an88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Sorry but can you quote any news stories of adulterers getting stoned by wild radical rabbis? Anyone who insulted Judaism or Moses getting his house or store bombed? Can you point to takkanas issued by rabbis calling for the death of someone, and ones that were actually carried out?
No, you can't.
Your counter is a complete failure. It is a deflection in fact.
Islam has a long history of continuous violence. What we see now is nothing new.

 

[francoHFW]

Charles E. Schumer and Lindsey O. Graham - The right way ...
Washington Post Breaking News World US DC News Analysis › Opinions
The Washington Post
Mar 19, 2010 - Our plan has four pillars: requiring biometric Social Security cards to ... A tamper-proof ID system would dramatically decrease illegal immigration, experts ... visas and reports those who overstay their visas to law enforcement ...

that being said Frankie....would they enforce it if an illegal is caught?.....the cops seem to have their hands tied in many parts of the Country when dealing with illegals......they do out here.....

You have to have an amnesty for the worthy ones at the same time (at least giving them papers ) ie recognize reality- or nothing will EVER change.

worthy ones?.....define that and who gets to decide if someone is worthy?...

It's in the law. Our representatives.

oh our reps get to decide....well that makes me feel better....the way these guys run the Country im sure they will pick the best of the best....

Sorry about our representative democracy, the definition of republic. The blame is with the voters, and the majority who don't. And of course Pubs who are responsible for our crappe education, media, SOCIETY. OK it's not that bad, and turning around SLOWLY under Dems.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

What makes a person republican, is emotional and philosophical - not factual information.

Take Fox News. People who watch it watch it because it does very little to challenge their rightwing anti-government, pre-conceived notions. It doesn't challenge people to think on a critical level. That's what republicans prefer to hear: just ranting that reaffirms what they already believe. Without saying many objective facts, someone on Fox can simply rant about the "evils of Obama" and "big government" and Fox viewers will eat it up. Their simple minds tune in for the emotionally charged rants of the likes of Sean Hannity because they don't risk hearing facts that may challenge their beliefs. That's too much thinking and frankly they aren't mature enough to swallow their pride and admit they were wrong about certain political beliefs.

Republicans like to make people believe they understand issues like poverty, the role of government, and economics but in truth they willfully ignore the actual objective facts about these issues because that's easier. They are simple thinkers.

If they did choose to listen to facts and think about them critically, they realize they were wrong. They have no choice but to embrace liberal beliefs which, at least most of the time, is based on factual information.

 

[Paperman299]

You have to prove that being right wing has something to do with their propensity to violence. You haven't done that.

No. You have to prove that being Muslim has something to do with their propensity to violence. At which point I will accept that cracking down on Muslim immigration will reduce terror attacks, with the caveat that now we also have to strongly consider cracking down on people with rightwing political beliefs. Since clearly the actions of a few can define a giant group of people.

The Koran is full of versus saying Kill the infidels.

Qur’an88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

 

[francoHFW]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

 

[The Rabbi]

No. You have to prove that being Muslim has something to do with their propensity to violence. At which point I will accept that cracking down on Muslim immigration will reduce terror attacks, with the caveat that now we also have to strongly consider cracking down on people with rightwing political beliefs. Since clearly the actions of a few can define a giant group of people.

The Koran is full of versus saying Kill the infidels.

Qur’an88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

 

[peach174]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

 

[Paperman299]

The Koran is full of versus saying Kill the infidels.

Qur’an88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

Let me get this straight. You support laws banning Muslim immigration to reduce terrorism. You don't support laws cracking down on Christians, though, because...there are no Christians committing violent acts in the name of their religion? That is seriously what you are going with?

Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed the Olympics in 1996, went on to bomb an abortion clinic AND a lesbian bar in 1997. He has confirmed that the attacks were religiously motivated.

Scott Roeder, a rightwing and religious extremist, murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

James Charles Kopp, part of a militant Roman Catholic anti-abortion group "The Lambs of Christ," shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his home in 1998. Within hours of his murder, a web-site called the Nuremberg Files containing a virtual hit list of doctors who provide abortions showed Dr. Slepian's name with a cross striking it out.

The Christian terrorist group the Army of God has caused or sanctioned many domestic terrorist attacks, including Rudolph and also Paul Jennings Hill (who murdered Dr John Britton and his bodyguard in 1994).

Notice that I am limiting myself to America in the last 20 or so years. Sorry dude. Every group has violent extremists. Christians are not some magical exception.

 

[francoHFW]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Yeah, only Alinsky would think of that. Or Rove, or Fox Noise, or Rush etc etc, who are the people who actually use it in a giant propaganda machine. Of which you are a typical chump. Brought to you by greedy idiot billionaires. FOOL.

 

[peach174]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Yeah, only Alinsky would think of that. Or Rove, or Fox Noise, or Rush etc etc, who are the people who actually use it in a giant propaganda machine. Of which you are a typical chump. Brought to you by greedy idiot billionaires. FOOL.

I was a young woman when his book came out and the left loved it, ate it up and have been incorporating it into their organizations and politics every since.
Done way before any of the above mentioned.
Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations
Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
I don't listen to any of them other that Fox, CNN. MSNBC and C-Span.

 

[francoHFW]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Yeah, only Alinsky would think of that. Or Rove, or Fox Noise, or Rush etc etc, who are the people who actually use it in a giant propaganda machine. Of which you are a typical chump. Brought to you by greedy idiot billionaires. FOOL.

I was a young woman when his book came out and the left loved it, ate it up and have been incorporating it into their organizations and politics every since.
Done way before any of the above mentioned.
Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations
Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
I don't listen to any of them other that Fox, CNN. MSNBC and C-Span.

Fox is plenty- it's all the same crappe. I'm 63 and never heard of Alinsky until Rush made him a talking point, when he couldn't defend himself.

 

[peach174]

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

Let me get this straight. You support laws banning Muslim immigration to reduce terrorism. You don't support laws cracking down on Christians, though, because...there are no Christians committing violent acts in the name of their religion? That is seriously what you are going with?

Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed the Olympics in 1996, went on to bomb an abortion clinic AND a lesbian bar in 1997. He has confirmed that the attacks were religiously motivated.

Scott Roeder, a rightwing and religious extremist, murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

James Charles Kopp, part of a militant Roman Catholic anti-abortion group "The Lambs of Christ," shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his home in 1998. Within hours of his murder, a web-site called the Nuremberg Files containing a virtual hit list of doctors who provide abortions showed Dr. Slepian's name with a cross striking it out.

The Christian terrorist group the Army of God has caused or sanctioned many domestic terrorist attacks, including Rudolph and also Paul Jennings Hill (who murdered Dr John Britton and his bodyguard in 1994).

Notice that I am limiting myself to America in the last 20 or so years. Sorry dude. Every group has violent extremists. Christians are not some magical exception.

Is the Army of God or any of the others you mentioned wanting to kill everyone on the planet who does not conform to Christianity?

 

[The Rabbi]

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

Let me get this straight. You support laws banning Muslim immigration to reduce terrorism. You don't support laws cracking down on Christians, though, because...there are no Christians committing violent acts in the name of their religion? That is seriously what you are going with?

Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed the Olympics in 1996, went on to bomb an abortion clinic AND a lesbian bar in 1997. He has confirmed that the attacks were religiously motivated.

Scott Roeder, a rightwing and religious extremist, murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

James Charles Kopp, part of a militant Roman Catholic anti-abortion group "The Lambs of Christ," shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his home in 1998. Within hours of his murder, a web-site called the Nuremberg Files containing a virtual hit list of doctors who provide abortions showed Dr. Slepian's name with a cross striking it out.

The Christian terrorist group the Army of God has caused or sanctioned many domestic terrorist attacks, including Rudolph and also Paul Jennings Hill (who murdered Dr John Britton and his bodyguard in 1994).

Notice that I am limiting myself to America in the last 20 or so years. Sorry dude. Every group has violent extremists. Christians are not some magical exception.

Stupid people only see similarities.
Is Eric Rudolph really a good example of Christians? Do Christians generally support what he did? Do they make a martyr out of him? Do they declare he is in Heaven with 72 virgins?
No, of course not.
They are not comparable at all.

 

[peach174]

If you take Alinsky's rules for radicals away from the left they have nothing to say.

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Yeah, only Alinsky would think of that. Or Rove, or Fox Noise, or Rush etc etc, who are the people who actually use it in a giant propaganda machine. Of which you are a typical chump. Brought to you by greedy idiot billionaires. FOOL.

I was a young woman when his book came out and the left loved it, ate it up and have been incorporating it into their organizations and politics every since.
Done way before any of the above mentioned.
Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations
Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
I don't listen to any of them other that Fox, CNN. MSNBC and C-Span.

Fox is plenty- it's all the same crappe. I'm 63 and never heard of Alinsky until Rush made him a talking point, when he couldn't defend himself.

I do agree with you about them all being the same crap.
I was at the University of Denver 72 & 73 and it was a big thing on campus as well as the University of Colorado in Bolder ( a very liberal college then and now).

 

[francoHFW]

Only RW drones have heard of him...

You do rules # 5 & 12 beautifully.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

Yeah, only Alinsky would think of that. Or Rove, or Fox Noise, or Rush etc etc, who are the people who actually use it in a giant propaganda machine. Of which you are a typical chump. Brought to you by greedy idiot billionaires. FOOL.

I was a young woman when his book came out and the left loved it, ate it up and have been incorporating it into their organizations and politics every since.
Done way before any of the above mentioned.
Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations
Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
I don't listen to any of them other that Fox, CNN. MSNBC and C-Span.

Fox is plenty- it's all the same crappe. I'm 63 and never heard of Alinsky until Rush made him a talking point, when he couldn't defend himself.

I do agree with you about them all being the same crap.
I was at the University of Denver 72 & 73 and it was a big thing on campus as well as the University of Colorado in Bolder ( a very liberal college then and now).

I actually meant Fox, Rush, Heritage etc etc etc. Iwas at Hobart '69-'74. We caught the only FBI agent provocateur in a peaceful riot. He was the SDS head of WNY and got 2 frosh to firebomb the ROTC office. Probably Kent State's too. By 72 protesters seemed to have cooled...google Tommy the Traveller. Alinsky?

 

[francoHFW]

At any rate, seems to me Alinsky was fighting for the downtrodden, while Fox, Rush, Heritage etc etc are fighting for the greedy polluters and screw the workers a-holes. How did he get to be evil anyway. Certainly I think his importance is WAY over propagandized by the real evil, bs Pub propagandists.

 

[Paperman299]

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

Let me get this straight. You support laws banning Muslim immigration to reduce terrorism. You don't support laws cracking down on Christians, though, because...there are no Christians committing violent acts in the name of their religion? That is seriously what you are going with?

Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed the Olympics in 1996, went on to bomb an abortion clinic AND a lesbian bar in 1997. He has confirmed that the attacks were religiously motivated.

Scott Roeder, a rightwing and religious extremist, murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

James Charles Kopp, part of a militant Roman Catholic anti-abortion group "The Lambs of Christ," shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his home in 1998. Within hours of his murder, a web-site called the Nuremberg Files containing a virtual hit list of doctors who provide abortions showed Dr. Slepian's name with a cross striking it out.

The Christian terrorist group the Army of God has caused or sanctioned many domestic terrorist attacks, including Rudolph and also Paul Jennings Hill (who murdered Dr John Britton and his bodyguard in 1994).

Notice that I am limiting myself to America in the last 20 or so years. Sorry dude. Every group has violent extremists. Christians are not some magical exception.

Is the Army of God or any of the others you mentioned wanting to kill everyone on the planet who does not conform to Christianity?

Do you actually think that's what most Muslims want? Do you think most Christians want to see abortion clinics blown up?

 

[Paperman299]

"If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever."" Leviticus 10:9

"If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”...If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death." Deuteronomy 22:13-14 and 22:20-21

"Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community." Leviticus 24:16

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword." Leviticus 26:7

"...and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." Numbers 1:51

"Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain." Numbers 23:24

(So I guess now we also have to crack down on anyone who ascribes to one of the Abrahamic religions)

Except none of them are doing that any longer.
Jesus set us free from the old laws we only follow the ten comandments now.
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

So you say.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished..." Matthew 5:17-18.

But I'm not interested in a theological discussion. The point is, both books have passages urging followers to violence, and yet we don't see Muslims lying in ambush any more than we see Christians putting people to the sword. It's not important to me whether or not you think they're different. Do you claim they're different enough that we need special laws cracking down on Muslims, and not on Christians? Or are you at least a little convinced we shouldn't have laws cracking down on any group for their political or religious beliefs?

WTF are you smoking? Muslims have been murdering people in the name of their religion for years now. You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar. Even Hindus do not engage in that kind of violence.

Let me get this straight. You support laws banning Muslim immigration to reduce terrorism. You don't support laws cracking down on Christians, though, because...there are no Christians committing violent acts in the name of their religion? That is seriously what you are going with?

Eric Robert Rudolph, who bombed the Olympics in 1996, went on to bomb an abortion clinic AND a lesbian bar in 1997. He has confirmed that the attacks were religiously motivated.

Scott Roeder, a rightwing and religious extremist, murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

James Charles Kopp, part of a militant Roman Catholic anti-abortion group "The Lambs of Christ," shot and killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in his home in 1998. Within hours of his murder, a web-site called the Nuremberg Files containing a virtual hit list of doctors who provide abortions showed Dr. Slepian's name with a cross striking it out.

The Christian terrorist group the Army of God has caused or sanctioned many domestic terrorist attacks, including Rudolph and also Paul Jennings Hill (who murdered Dr John Britton and his bodyguard in 1994).

Notice that I am limiting myself to America in the last 20 or so years. Sorry dude. Every group has violent extremists. Christians are not some magical exception.

Stupid people only see similarities.
Is Eric Rudolph really a good example of Christians? Do Christians generally support what he did? Do they make a martyr out of him? Do they declare he is in Heaven with 72 virgins?
No, of course not.
They are not comparable at all.

Just a few hours ago you claimed "You dont see Christians or Jews doing anything similar." Of course, we completely do, so your position has changed to saying we shouldn't judge all Christianity by their ilk, and I completely agree with you.

The answers to your questions are no, no, no, and no. In fact, most Christians are just regular and decent people, aren't they? It would be CRAZY to discriminate against all Christians based on the actions of a radical few, especially when most Christians would tell you they despise what those nuts are doing...