If you oppose the Confederate flag you oppose the American flag too

[Unkotare]

PROVEN illegal and illegitimate.

You haven't proved jack shit, moron.

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

 

[bripat9643]

You deliberately ellided the portion that shows South Caronlina retained legal jurisdiction over the property. That's because you're a craven hosebag who knows the facts don't support your lies.

The context of the sentence makes it clear they meant it purely in the sense of land. Notice in the last sentence it refers to the area as land, not territory.

Territory Define Territory at Dictionary.com

territory

noun, plural territories.
1.any tract of land; region or district.​

Furthermore, they refer to it in the sense meaning it's Carolina territory. Nowhere do they say the land is to become Federal territory. They only say it will become the property if the federal government.

Notice further than the first sentence says that Caroline is turning over "TITLE" to the property. If it was going to become the territory of the federal government, why would it need a title?

The state of Virginia performed a similar transaction with the federal government. The text of that agreement is as follows:

"Whereas Robert T. Lincoln, Secretary of War of the United States, has made application to this General Assembly, for its consent to the purchase by authorities of the United States of a tract of land described as follows: [legal description deleted]; therefore,
"1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia, That the consent of this state is hereby given to the purchase of said tract of land, but this consent is given subject to the following terms and conditions, to wit: That this State retains concurrent jurisdiction with the United States over said tract of land, so that courts, magistrates and officers of this state may take cognizance , execute such process, and discharge such legal functions within the same as me be not incompatible with the consent hereby given.
"2. That said tract of land and the buildings now or that may be hereafter erected thereon, and any property of the United States, on such tract, are hereby exempted from all taxes imposed by this state, or by the constituted authorities of Alexandria County, and this exemption shall be in force from the date of said purchase by the United States, …and shall continue only so long as the United States shall be and remain the owner of said tract of land; and all taxes, and county, township and district levies, due or claimed to be due, for, against or upon said real estate since the same went into possession of and has been held and used by the United States authorities, as aforesaid, are hereby released and discharged."
​

Note that Virginia also explicitly stated that it retained jurisdiction of the "land" purchased by the federal government. Note that the document also refers to the federal government as the "owner" of the land, as in any other entity owning property in the state.

Why should anyone believe that the South Carolina agreement was intended to be fundamentally different than the Virginia agreement?

You're a fucking fruitcake.

They never retained legal jurisdiction. You're too fucking retarded to understand plain English. They ceded the territory with the provision they could have permission to process serve fugitives from the law and parties in civil cases.

The land and the fort were, and still are, owned by the U.S.. The confederacy started the war when they attacked a federal installation.

It's obvious you will simply ignore the facts presented. What do you suppose "all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State" means? It means SC can enforce all laws passed by its legislature.

I realize that as a member of the Lincoln cult you can never admit the plain facts of the matter. All you can do is dispense ad hominems.

Nah, I'm doing far more than merely dispensing ad homing .... I'm also presenting the fact that South Carolina ceded that territory to the U.S. Furthermore, the U.S. then constructed a fort which was, and still is, U.S. property; which was attacked by the confederacy, launching the Civil war.

I can't be held responsible for your delusions. Your claims are not facts.

As far as the meaning of the partial clause you posted, in toto means South Carolina was only willing to cede that territory providing they had permission to process serve parties to civil cases and arrest fugitives from the law in criminal cases.

I'm sorry you are illiterate, but that isn't what " "all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State" means. "All processes" means "ALL processes." What does that exclude that they could do in other parts of the state?

If that sentence meant what your delusions tell you it means, you wouldn't have to cut off the second half. It's cute though, how you mangle that sentence to change its meaning into what you want it to mean since it doesn't actually mean what you think it does.

I didn't mangle or cutoff diddly. You are the one who got caught posting a partial quote that was intended to mislead people.

You have been thoroughly routed in this discussion. Of course, you didn't have a chance because the facts all line up against your idiocy. But what can you do? In order to salvage your fallen saint's reputation you are forced to lie about the facts.

 

[bripat9643]

PROVEN illegal and illegitimate.

You haven't proved jack shit, moron.

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

Aside from being an appeal to authority, I've already explained over a dozen times why their opinion doesn't prove squat.

 

[OKTexas]

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. That's why people typically fly the Stars and Bars.
But we got over that and healed and the descendents of those Confederates went on to serve the American army and win our wars.
But those who want to censor, who want to denigrate the struggle of our Southern ancestors, who want to demonize others for holding opinions contrary to theirs are no better than jihhadis and communists, who want to ban anything contrary to their religion. They are the hater dupes of the public world.

you're ability to paint a war started to guarantee slavery as something noble is sickening.

And you thinking you can judge people that lived in a different time by todays standards is equally sickening.

so you're a moral relativist now?
those people chose to take up arms against their nation in defense of slavery. that does not make them patriots as the op would like us to believe. it makes them traitors.

Hey dumb ass, slavery was legal when the war started and there were no official moves to outlaw it at the time. In fact Lincoln said he was willing to continue to allow it if the south rejoined the union. Economics and an overbearing federal government started the war, slavery was a side issue at the time. Maybe you should learn real history instead of the leftist revisionist bullshit you seem to be buying into.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

shut up

Has nothing to do with my arguments, KEEP UP!

 

[Unkotare]

PROVEN illegal and illegitimate.

You haven't proved jack shit, moron.

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

Aside from being an appeal to authority, I've already explained over a dozen times why their opinion doesn't prove squat.

You didn't "explain" anything, moron. You merely indulged in yet another failed attempt at denying reality and revising history. You're a joke, and everyone here sees it.

 

[bripat9643]

You haven't proved jack shit, moron.

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

Aside from being an appeal to authority, I've already explained over a dozen times why their opinion doesn't prove squat.

You didn't "explain" anything, moron. You merely indulged in yet another failed attempt at denying reality and revising history. You're a joke, and everyone here sees it.

Logical fallacies are not "reality," moron. History is revised constantly. It only becomes a crime when cult members have their delusions destroyed.

 

[Unkotare]

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

Aside from being an appeal to authority, I've already explained over a dozen times why their opinion doesn't prove squat.

You didn't "explain" anything, moron. You merely indulged in yet another failed attempt at denying reality and revising history. You're a joke, and everyone here sees it.

Logical fallacies are not "reality," moron. ....

I don't think you know what any of those words mean.

 

[Unkotare]

History is revised constantly.......

 

[Contumacious]

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. That's why people typically fly the Stars and Bars.
But we got over that and healed and the descendents of those Confederates went on to serve the American army and win our wars.
But those who want to censor, who want to denigrate the struggle of our Southern ancestors, who want to demonize others for holding opinions contrary to theirs are no better than jihhadis and communists, who want to ban anything contrary to their religion. They are the hater dupes of the public world.

My point precisely.


I posted a similar thread over the week-end stating those facts but it was closed because the "moderator" at the time somehow concluded that it was a duplicate.


The fact is that more atrocities, crime and tyranny have occurred under the stars and stripes that the confederate flag.

.


.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. That's why people typically fly the Stars and Bars.
But we got over that and healed and the descendents of those Confederates went on to serve the American army and win our wars.
But those who want to censor, who want to denigrate the struggle of our Southern ancestors, who want to demonize others for holding opinions contrary to theirs are no better than jihhadis and communists, who want to ban anything contrary to their religion. They are the hater dupes of the public world.

The ones carrying the American flags were the ones the Confederates were shooting at.

 

[Dan Daly]

A complete explanation of how and why your silly remarks are wrong would be wasted on you, but somebody has to at least tell you that you are wrong, so ........YOU ARE WRONG.

Incorrect...but thanks for highlighting to the world that you don't have any logical rebuttal. The wrong is in your mirror, nancy.

 

[Dan Daly]

[
slavery and its protection were central to south carolina's declaration of secession, and secession started the war, since there would have been no shots fired without it and the subsequent theft of fort sumpter. it absolutely was not a 'side issue' and anyone claiming it was is trying to rewrite history.

Kinda hard to take you seriously when you can't even properly spell or capitalize Fort Sumter.

Slavery was the main issue why SC and other states seceded...but the cause of the war itself was Lincoln's invasion of the South following the fiasco at Ft. Sumter. He could have taken the high road and respected the states' right of secession while negotiating over the fate of Sumter and other federal installations in Confederate territory. But he didn't, he chose to invade and destroy the South in the name of "saving the Union". How free is a country that must be held together by brute force? I think that question has been answered by the state of the Union today...and it's not the answer our forefathers intended.

 

[ogibillm]

[
slavery and its protection were central to south carolina's declaration of secession, and secession started the war, since there would have been no shots fired without it and the subsequent theft of fort sumpter. it absolutely was not a 'side issue' and anyone claiming it was is trying to rewrite history.

Kinda hard to take you seriously when you can't even properly spell or capitalize Fort Sumter.

Slavery was the main issue why SC and other states seceded...but the cause of the war itself was Lincoln's invasion of the South following the fiasco at Ft. Sumter. He could have taken the high road and respected the states' right of secession while negotiating over the fate of Sumter and other federal installations in Confederate territory. But he didn't, he chose to invade and destroy the South in the name of "saving the Union". How free is a country that must be held together by brute force? I think that question has been answered by the state of the Union today...and it's not the answer our forefathers intended.

two things. i'm atrocious when it comes to proper name spelling. sorry about that. i'll make sure i don't make the same mistake in the future.

second, the states did not have the right to secede. that has been decided in the supreme court. frankly given their treason the south got off easy.

 

[Faun]

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. That's why people typically fly the Stars and Bars.
But we got over that and healed and the descendents of those Confederates went on to serve the American army and win our wars.
But those who want to censor, who want to denigrate the struggle of our Southern ancestors, who want to demonize others for holding opinions contrary to theirs are no better than jihhadis and communists, who want to ban anything contrary to their religion. They are the hater dupes of the public world.

you're ability to paint a war started to guarantee slavery as something noble is sickening.

And you thinking you can judge people that lived in a different time by todays standards is equally sickening.

so you're a moral relativist now?
those people chose to take up arms against their nation in defense of slavery. that does not make them patriots as the op would like us to believe. it makes them traitors.

Hey dumb ass, slavery was legal when the war started and there were no official moves to outlaw it at the time. In fact Lincoln said he was willing to continue to allow it if the south rejoined the union. Economics and an overbearing federal government started the war, slavery was a side issue at the time. Maybe you should learn real history instead of the leftist revisionist bullshit you seem to be buying into.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

shut up

It's astounding that any of these nutcases maintain the idiocy of denying the confederacy was all about slavery in the face of each of the states outwardly admitting as much.

 

[Faun]

You're a fucking fruitcake.

They never retained legal jurisdiction. You're too fucking retarded to understand plain English. They ceded the territory with the provision they could have permission to process serve fugitives from the law and parties in civil cases.

The land and the fort were, and still are, owned by the U.S.. The confederacy started the war when they attacked a federal installation.

It's obvious you will simply ignore the facts presented. What do you suppose "all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State" means? It means SC can enforce all laws passed by its legislature.

I realize that as a member of the Lincoln cult you can never admit the plain facts of the matter. All you can do is dispense ad hominems.

Nah, I'm doing far more than merely dispensing ad homing .... I'm also presenting the fact that South Carolina ceded that territory to the U.S. Furthermore, the U.S. then constructed a fort which was, and still is, U.S. property; which was attacked by the confederacy, launching the Civil war.

I can't be held responsible for your delusions. Your claims are not facts.

As far as the meaning of the partial clause you posted, in toto means South Carolina was only willing to cede that territory providing they had permission to process serve parties to civil cases and arrest fugitives from the law in criminal cases.

I'm sorry you are illiterate, but that isn't what " "all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State" means. "All processes" means "ALL processes." What does that exclude that they could do in other parts of the state?

If that sentence meant what your delusions tell you it means, you wouldn't have to cut off the second half. It's cute though, how you mangle that sentence to change its meaning into what you want it to mean since it doesn't actually mean what you think it does.

I didn't mangle or cutoff diddly. You are the one who got caught posting a partial quote that was intended to mislead people.

You have been thoroughly routed in this discussion. Of course, you didn't have a chance because the facts all line up against your idiocy. But what can you do? In order to salvage your fallen saint's reputation you are forced to lie about the facts.

You wouldn't have to lie if the truth was on your side.

Despite your lie in denying cutting anything out of that sentence, in reality, you cut off the beginning and the ending, leaving only a portion which you then tried to use to change the meaning of the entire sentence in toto.

As far as your delusions that you've routed me in this debate, you may be able to fool yourself into believing that but you' retirement incapable of fooling anyone with a brain. While I've proven every contention I've made, you've been reduced to relying on your imagination and trying to alter reality by posting chopped up sentences which alters their meaning.

As far as your idiocy about my "saint," I have no idea what you're talking about as I don't consider anyone a saint.

 

[Faun]

PROVEN illegal and illegitimate.

You haven't proved jack shit, moron.

he's got the constitution and the supreme court on his side. you have your say so. guess which one carries more weight

The Constitution isn't on his side....

The highest court in the land says otherwise, loser wannabe.

Aside from being an appeal to authority, I've already explained over a dozen times why their opinion doesn't prove squat.

It's adorable to see how much you value your own opinion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

you're ability to paint a war started to guarantee slavery as something noble is sickening.

And you thinking you can judge people that lived in a different time by todays standards is equally sickening.

so you're a moral relativist now?
those people chose to take up arms against their nation in defense of slavery. that does not make them patriots as the op would like us to believe. it makes them traitors.

Hey dumb ass, slavery was legal when the war started and there were no official moves to outlaw it at the time. In fact Lincoln said he was willing to continue to allow it if the south rejoined the union. Economics and an overbearing federal government started the war, slavery was a side issue at the time. Maybe you should learn real history instead of the leftist revisionist bullshit you seem to be buying into.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

shut up

It's astounding that any of these nutcases maintain the idiocy of denying the confederacy was all about slavery in the face of each of the states outwardly admitting as much.

What's astounding? They're denying that Roof shot those people because they were black when he's said that's why he did it.

 

[OKTexas]

And you thinking you can judge people that lived in a different time by todays standards is equally sickening.

so you're a moral relativist now?
those people chose to take up arms against their nation in defense of slavery. that does not make them patriots as the op would like us to believe. it makes them traitors.

Hey dumb ass, slavery was legal when the war started and there were no official moves to outlaw it at the time. In fact Lincoln said he was willing to continue to allow it if the south rejoined the union. Economics and an overbearing federal government started the war, slavery was a side issue at the time. Maybe you should learn real history instead of the leftist revisionist bullshit you seem to be buying into.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

shut up

It's astounding that any of these nutcases maintain the idiocy of denying the confederacy was all about slavery in the face of each of the states outwardly admitting as much.

What's astounding? They're denying that Roof shot those people because they were black when he's said that's why he did it.

There goes that broad brush again, I've never said that.

 

[bripat9643]

[
slavery and its protection were central to south carolina's declaration of secession, and secession started the war, since there would have been no shots fired without it and the subsequent theft of fort sumpter. it absolutely was not a 'side issue' and anyone claiming it was is trying to rewrite history.

Kinda hard to take you seriously when you can't even properly spell or capitalize Fort Sumter.

Slavery was the main issue why SC and other states seceded...but the cause of the war itself was Lincoln's invasion of the South following the fiasco at Ft. Sumter. He could have taken the high road and respected the states' right of secession while negotiating over the fate of Sumter and other federal installations in Confederate territory. But he didn't, he chose to invade and destroy the South in the name of "saving the Union". How free is a country that must be held together by brute force? I think that question has been answered by the state of the Union today...and it's not the answer our forefathers intended.

two things. i'm atrocious when it comes to proper name spelling. sorry about that. i'll make sure i don't make the same mistake in the future.

second, the states did not have the right to secede. that has been decided in the supreme court. frankly given their treason the south got off easy.

As has been explained to you, the SC decision was decided by a gang of Lincoln appointed hacks. The chance of them ruling against Lincoln's war were about as plausible as finding a Lion that likes to eat vegetables or a politician that tells the truth.

We've just witnessed with the Roberts court that laws don't mean anything, the justices can say they mean whatever they want them to mean. Hanging your hat on USSC decisions only makes you look gullible and foolish.

 

[bripat9643]

you're ability to paint a war started to guarantee slavery as something noble is sickening.

And you thinking you can judge people that lived in a different time by todays standards is equally sickening.

so you're a moral relativist now?
those people chose to take up arms against their nation in defense of slavery. that does not make them patriots as the op would like us to believe. it makes them traitors.

Hey dumb ass, slavery was legal when the war started and there were no official moves to outlaw it at the time. In fact Lincoln said he was willing to continue to allow it if the south rejoined the union. Economics and an overbearing federal government started the war, slavery was a side issue at the time. Maybe you should learn real history instead of the leftist revisionist bullshit you seem to be buying into.

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

shut up

It's astounding that any of these nutcases maintain the idiocy of denying the confederacy was all about slavery in the face of each of the states outwardly admitting as much.

Lincoln didn't invade Virginia to free the slaves, numskull. He said so himself. That means the war wasn't about slavery.