If you need religion to be good

[Steven_R]

If you need religion to be good, a promised paradisical afterlife, threat of hell if you're naughty, you're already evil and screwed.

Humanists like myself know being good IS good. But we don't behave good and proper because we think we'll be rewarded after we die. We know we'll be rewarded while we're still alive. Good begets good, evil begets evil. If you're only good because you think you'll be rewarded, you're a horrible example of your faith. Would you be good without the concept of heaven or threat of hell? Are you that mentally unhinged?

You're not human, you are a primate.

History shows us that before the advent of deities, (either in multiple form or singular) humans were so amoral as to be evil. The killing of one another was given no more thought than the killing of a spider. Even after the advent of some religion, mankind was cruel to the point it almost defied description. Whole families and ethnicities were enslaved and/or butchered with no more conscious than simple cattle.

A belief that mankind was good and moral before the coming of the major religions is deliberately blind to the history and truth of our existence.

It is possible that as a species and with the advancements we have made, that if we did not have the moral boundaries taught us by millennia of religion, we'd have reduced ourselves back into the prairies and we'd just be another group of hunter/gatherers.

In essence, without God, we are just another tribe of primates, with all the moral code that they carry with them.

I don't know if you've paid attention to history, but all those same things were around after the invention of religion and were done in the name of religion and by every religion at one time or another.

People suck and are cruel and will lie, cheat, steal, and kill with the slightest of motivations and convince themselves they were in the right because each and every one of us has the ability to delude ourselves and rationalize why we aren't in the wrong. Throwing gods into the mix just adds another layer of rationalization that we use to convince ourselves that we're absolved of culpability.

 

[emilynghiem]

​

Dear Goddess_Ashtara:
Would you agree that the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this.

So whether we teach it or not, whether it is conscious or not, whether it is or is not specifically stated
in system of laws or religion,
as long as PEOPLE are involved in that religion,
then PEOPLE by conscience carry this law in our nature.

It may well BE true, that you are right and DT is wrong that this GR is not directly expressed in every religion, we cannot know that.

I do not believe that "the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this"...

But

If that is what you believe, than I would encourage you to continue believing as you do.

I have read your posts before, and noticed that you seem to have this aura about you that reflects positivity, "Light", and "goodness". At least, you seem to possess traits that other humans subjectively consider to be "good", and, I like that about you... even if my Nature is radically different than yours.

I like that you appear to truly believe the things you say, and I like that you do not seem to be the least bit hypocritical in them.


​

Are you okay with the idea that since it is inherently a natural law embodied in the conscience
of all people, we are under it anyway?

I am okay with others embracing that idea, even if I do not embrace it myself.
​

You obviously don't embrace anything good...Your evil persona would make Charles Mansion cringe.

Hi pbel:
The issue of human selfishness vs. inviting truly inhuman evil to takeover personalities
was studied and described in Scott Peck's books "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil"

Generally, such people open to demonic possession as Manson (or David Berkowitz who recovered
and returned to a positive spiritual mindset and personality completely free of the satanic/occult sickness)
REJECT and REBEL against any person who is spiritually on the light side such as Christians and especially priests.

in the cases of true oppression or possession, these evil spirits/entities/personalities
will INSULT and ATTACK the healing doctors or counselors in order to maintain control of their host.

If you read Goddess_Ashtara's messages, she is OPEN to wisdom and understanding
and RECEIVES other people, including me as child of God.

No demon or possessed person can stand to be in the presence of God's love
that threatens to free and heal the host!

If you read up on the process Scott Peck set up to observe
two dehabilitated Schizophrenic patients, considered incureable because of demonic personalities
that REFUSED any kind of intervention or help to heal the mental and physical illness and self-destructive behavior,
and how BOTH patients were cured and returned to their NORMAL personalities and mindsets
after the demonic obsessions were removed by Deliverance and Exorcism therapy,

then you might understand the difference.

In Peck's case, he didn't believe this was even real, he thought it was delusional mental illness,
and had to see it for himself, where it changed his mind completely.

I think having this knowledge and understanding would help you
NOT to be afraid, but to know that even the worst criminal illness or satanic abuse/addiction
can be healed as Berkowitz, former Son of Sam, has testified he was completely transformed
when he received this spiritual healing and removal of the occult sickness that pushed him to kill.

David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

"I was involved in the occult and I got burned. I became a cruel killer and threw away my life as well as destroyed the lives of others. Now I have discovered that Christ is my answer and my hope. He broke the chains of mental confusion and depression that had me bound. Today I have placed my life in His hands. I only wish I knew Jesus before all these crimes happened - they would not have happened.

May God bless everyone who is reading this message!

With Love in Christ,
David Berkowitz"

NOTE: I still believe in keeping people in detention, especially dangerous pedophile addicts.

The ones who are truly healed do not want to impose on people they know don't understand and will be afraid.
Even if they are still sick physically with addiction or relapse or risk of it, the ones whose minds are healed will work WITH authorities and comply and be grateful and do not seek to push to be free or selfish things.

So that's how you can tell the difference.

They ask to serve *within prisons* to help others there, so I think the churches who believe in rehab and restitution should support more max security prison centers for priests and others who have committed mass sexual abuse or trafficking/cult related crimes to serve their sentences while working in prisons to pay restitution financially or with their labor to their victims and society.

The ones who are truly healed ask to give back voluntarily, so this is not abusing prison labor when it is ministry.

 

[emilynghiem]

Fear based religion is a contradiction. They preach about the "love of God" while threatening "eternal damnation" if you don't comply. That is a form of cognitive dissonance. Rational people understand that doing what is right is good and doing what is wrong will have very real consequences in this life. There is no need for any religious threat to make them into "good" people.

But again the question I posed to the OP. How do you know what is good?

When people agree that they want something and it is consistent with what other people want
as the greater good for all.

That is how we decide what is truth, what is true love, what is the right thing to do.
We check with all sources and form the best assessment possible,
based on agreement and consistency with all the given people and factors.

The more people we include in that equation, especially including those most diametically
opposed or even against each other, then when we find what we "agree is true, good, fair and accurate"
WOW it stands out as very obvious.

So that's why we need each other, to check and balance each other's judgment,
and make sure we truly assess all the facts and factors when deciding what is really the best
for our relationships, for society, and for the good of humanity.

We can always make a mistake, so we need to check with all sources!

 

[pbel]

​

Dear Goddess_Ashtara:
Would you agree that the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this.

So whether we teach it or not, whether it is conscious or not, whether it is or is not specifically stated
in system of laws or religion,
as long as PEOPLE are involved in that religion,
then PEOPLE by conscience carry this law in our nature.

It may well BE true, that you are right and DT is wrong that this GR is not directly expressed in every religion, we cannot know that.

I do not believe that "the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this"...

But

If that is what you believe, than I would encourage you to continue believing as you do.

I have read your posts before, and noticed that you seem to have this aura about you that reflects positivity, "Light", and "goodness". At least, you seem to possess traits that other humans subjectively consider to be "good", and, I like that about you... even if my Nature is radically different than yours.

I like that you appear to truly believe the things you say, and I like that you do not seem to be the least bit hypocritical in them.


​

Are you okay with the idea that since it is inherently a natural law embodied in the conscience
of all people, we are under it anyway?

I am okay with others embracing that idea, even if I do not embrace it myself.
​

You obviously don't embrace anything good...Your evil persona would make Charles Mansion cringe.

Hi pbel:
The issue of human selfishness vs. inviting truly inhuman evil to takeover personalities
was studied and described in Scott Peck's books "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil"

Generally, such people open to demonic possession as Manson (or David Berkowitz who recovered
and returned to a positive spiritual mindset and personality completely free of the satanic/occult sickness)
REJECT and REBEL against any person who is spiritually on the light side such as Christians and especially priests.

in the cases of true oppression or possession, these evil spirits/entities/personalities
will INSULT and ATTACK the healing doctors or counselors in order to maintain control of their host.

If you read Goddess_Ashtara's messages, she is OPEN to wisdom and understanding
and RECEIVES other people, including me as child of God.

No demon or possessed person can stand to be in the presence of God's love
that threatens to free and heal the host!

If you read up on the process Scott Peck set up to observe
two dehabilitated Schizophrenic patients, considered incureable because of demonic personalities
that REFUSED any kind of intervention or help to heal the mental and physical illness and self-destructive behavior,
and how BOTH patients were cured and returned to their NORMAL personalities and mindsets
after the demonic obsessions were removed by Deliverance and Exorcism therapy,

then you might understand the difference.

In Peck's case, he didn't believe this was even real, he thought it was delusional mental illness,
and had to see it for himself, where it changed his mind completely.

I think having this knowledge and understanding would help you
NOT to be afraid, but to know that even the worst criminal illness or satanic abuse/addiction
can be healed as Berkowitz, former Son of Sam, has testified he was completely transformed
when he received this spiritual healing and removal of the occult sickness that pushed him to kill.

David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

"I was involved in the occult and I got burned. I became a cruel killer and threw away my life as well as destroyed the lives of others. Now I have discovered that Christ is my answer and my hope. He broke the chains of mental confusion and depression that had me bound. Today I have placed my life in His hands. I only wish I knew Jesus before all these crimes happened - they would not have happened.

May God bless everyone who is reading this message!

With Love in Christ,
David Berkowitz"

NOTE: I still believe in keeping people in detention, especially dangerous pedophile addicts.

The ones who are truly healed do not want to impose on people they know don't understand and will be afraid.
Even if they are still sick physically with addiction or relapse or risk of it, the ones whose minds are healed will work WITH authorities and comply and be grateful and do not seek to push to be free or selfish things.

So that's how you can tell the difference.

They ask to serve *within prisons* to help others there, so I think the churches who believe in rehab and restitution should support more max security prison centers for priests and others who have committed mass sexual abuse or trafficking/cult related crimes to serve their sentences while working in prisons to pay restitution financially or with their labor to their victims and society.

The ones who are truly healed ask to give back voluntarily, so this is not abusing prison labor when it is ministry.

Thank you for your words, however Satanic worshipers like Ashtara uses deception as a tool to fool, don't fall for it!

 

[emilynghiem]

​

Dear Goddess_Ashtara:
Would you agree that the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this.

So whether we teach it or not, whether it is conscious or not, whether it is or is not specifically stated
in system of laws or religion,
as long as PEOPLE are involved in that religion,
then PEOPLE by conscience carry this law in our nature.

It may well BE true, that you are right and DT is wrong that this GR is not directly expressed in every religion, we cannot know that.

I do not believe that "the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this"...

But

If that is what you believe, than I would encourage you to continue believing as you do.

I have read your posts before, and noticed that you seem to have this aura about you that reflects positivity, "Light", and "goodness". At least, you seem to possess traits that other humans subjectively consider to be "good", and, I like that about you... even if my Nature is radically different than yours.

I like that you appear to truly believe the things you say, and I like that you do not seem to be the least bit hypocritical in them.


​

Are you okay with the idea that since it is inherently a natural law embodied in the conscience
of all people, we are under it anyway?

I am okay with others embracing that idea, even if I do not embrace it myself.
​

You obviously don't embrace anything good...Your evil persona would make Charles Mansion cringe.

Hi pbel:
The issue of human selfishness vs. inviting truly inhuman evil to takeover personalities
was studied and described in Scott Peck's books "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil"

Generally, such people open to demonic possession as Manson (or David Berkowitz who recovered
and returned to a positive spiritual mindset and personality completely free of the satanic/occult sickness)
REJECT and REBEL against any person who is spiritually on the light side such as Christians and especially priests.

in the cases of true oppression or possession, these evil spirits/entities/personalities
will INSULT and ATTACK the healing doctors or counselors in order to maintain control of their host.

If you read Goddess_Ashtara's messages, she is OPEN to wisdom and understanding
and RECEIVES other people, including me as child of God.

No demon or possessed person can stand to be in the presence of God's love
that threatens to free and heal the host!

If you read up on the process Scott Peck set up to observe
two dehabilitated Schizophrenic patients, considered incureable because of demonic personalities
that REFUSED any kind of intervention or help to heal the mental and physical illness and self-destructive behavior,
and how BOTH patients were cured and returned to their NORMAL personalities and mindsets
after the demonic obsessions were removed by Deliverance and Exorcism therapy,

then you might understand the difference.

In Peck's case, he didn't believe this was even real, he thought it was delusional mental illness,
and had to see it for himself, where it changed his mind completely.

I think having this knowledge and understanding would help you
NOT to be afraid, but to know that even the worst criminal illness or satanic abuse/addiction
can be healed as Berkowitz, former Son of Sam, has testified he was completely transformed
when he received this spiritual healing and removal of the occult sickness that pushed him to kill.

David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

"I was involved in the occult and I got burned. I became a cruel killer and threw away my life as well as destroyed the lives of others. Now I have discovered that Christ is my answer and my hope. He broke the chains of mental confusion and depression that had me bound. Today I have placed my life in His hands. I only wish I knew Jesus before all these crimes happened - they would not have happened.

May God bless everyone who is reading this message!

With Love in Christ,
David Berkowitz"

NOTE: I still believe in keeping people in detention, especially dangerous pedophile addicts.

The ones who are truly healed do not want to impose on people they know don't understand and will be afraid.
Even if they are still sick physically with addiction or relapse or risk of it, the ones whose minds are healed will work WITH authorities and comply and be grateful and do not seek to push to be free or selfish things.

So that's how you can tell the difference.

They ask to serve *within prisons* to help others there, so I think the churches who believe in rehab and restitution should support more max security prison centers for priests and others who have committed mass sexual abuse or trafficking/cult related crimes to serve their sentences while working in prisons to pay restitution financially or with their labor to their victims and society.

The ones who are truly healed ask to give back voluntarily, so this is not abusing prison labor when it is ministry.

Thank you for your words, however Satanic worshipers like Ashtara uses deception as a tool to fool, don't fall for it!

What I read in her spirit is she is open to understanding Universal Truth and not rejecting natural wisdom and knowledge.
As it says in the Bible on remaining open to receive and follow Wisdom:

16 Wisdom offers you long life, as well as wealth and honor. 17 Wisdom can make your life pleasant and lead you safely through it. 18 Those who become wise are happy; wisdom will give them life. 19 The Lord created the earth by his wisdom; by his knowledge he set the sky in place.20 His wisdom caused the rivers to flow and the clouds to give rain to the earth. 21 My child, hold on to your wisdom and insight. Never let them get away from you. 22 They will provide you with life - a pleasant and happy life. 23 You can go safely on your way and never even stumble. 24 You will not be afraid when you go to bed, and you will sleep soundly through the night. 25 You will not have to worry about sudden disasters, such as come on the wicked like a storm. 26 The Lord will keep you safe. He will not let you fall into a trap.

Proverbs 3:16-26 (KJV: 16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. 17 Her ways areways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to them that lay holdupon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. 19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded theearth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up , and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes:keep sound wisdom and discretion: 22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble . 24 When thou liestdown , thou shalt not be afraid : yea, thou shalt lie down , and thy sleep shall be sweet . 25 Be notafraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh . 26 For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.)


As long as Goddess_Ashtara does not refuse Wisdom from all sources that offer it,
God will keep her safe as a follower of Natural Law that does NOT have to be twisted by satanic fear and selfish division.

But you are right, all it takes is a proverbial "snake in the grass" to try to turn her away from Wisdom,
and that would be foolish. So I pray and support GA in staying open to Wisdom that she never falls into such a trap
that she cannot be pulled out of just as easily.

 

[Foxfyre]

Fear based religion is a contradiction. They preach about the "love of God" while threatening "eternal damnation" if you don't comply. That is a form of cognitive dissonance. Rational people understand that doing what is right is good and doing what is wrong will have very real consequences in this life. There is no need for any religious threat to make them into "good" people.

But again the question I posed to the OP. How do you know what is good?

When people agree that they want something and it is consistent with what other people want
as the greater good for all.

That is how we decide what is truth, what is true love, what is the right thing to do.
We check with all sources and form the best assessment possible,
based on agreement and consistency with all the given people and factors.

The more people we include in that equation, especially including those most diametically
opposed or even against each other, then when we find what we "agree is true, good, fair and accurate"
WOW it stands out as very obvious.

So that's why we need each other, to check and balance each other's judgment,
and make sure we truly assess all the facts and factors when deciding what is really the best
for our relationships, for society, and for the good of humanity.

We can always make a mistake, so we need to check with all sources!

I would mostly agree with this if we are talking about a typical cohesive modern Christian community.

But where do groups like the Westboro Baptists fit in to your concept? I'm sure their community all agrees that what they do is okay, while the huge majority of Christians would disagree. If you asked the orthodox Puritans in the 18th century what is the proper way to do good and the proper and good way to deal with heretics--think the stocks, the red letter, the banishments, the witch burnings, etc.--I'm sure they all would have agreed on what is good. But who among today's Christians would agree with what they considered good back then? How about the militant Muslim extremists who believe they obey and honor Allah when they behead an infidel? Or when they kill their errant daughter? I'm sure most of them agree on that, but who among us would say it is good?

Think of the orthodoxy of the Pharisees of Jesus' time and their agreement on keeping the Law in every way. Jesus of course didn't agree with them about a lot of that, but should he have conformed to their interpretation of what is good?

Think about how few of us agree on what qualities are good on a message board and what is unsatisfactory. How much more will we disagree on things like prayer in public places, abortion, the death penalty, what is and is not charity, what is a just war, how to deal with people who disagree with us on social policy, etc.?

So I think the answer to what is and is not good cannot always be ascertained by what is customary or socially proper or legalistic or via group think or agreement. I think there has to be some deeper criteria to base it on.

 

[sealybobo]

If you need religion to be good, a promised paradisical afterlife, threat of hell if you're naughty, you're already evil and screwed.

Humanists like myself know being good IS good. But we don't behave good and proper because we think we'll be rewarded after we die. We know we'll be rewarded while we're still alive. Good begets good, evil begets evil. If you're only good because you think you'll be rewarded, you're a horrible example of your faith. Would you be good without the concept of heaven or threat of hell? Are you that mentally unhinged?

Another thing that bothered me about Christianity. For years it bothered me that good atheists would burn in hell but bad Christians would be in heaven. It's another reason I realized religions are all man made. If there was a god that cared, he'd care most if we were good, not if we believed in him. And a real god wouldn't hide and require we believe our earthly pedophile priests.

 

[sealybobo]

You made the outrageous claim that it is a fact that the Golden rule is in every religion.

It may be in many of them, but it is definitely not in all of them.
​

In which case prove me wrong by citing the religions in which the golden rule does not exist.

Many theists here keep claiming atheism is a religion. Do you agree? If so, I don't know that we use the golden rule. Does that mean some religions don't use the golden rule or does that mean atheism is not a religion?

 

[sealybobo]

​

Dear Goddess_Ashtara:
Would you agree that the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this.

So whether we teach it or not, whether it is conscious or not, whether it is or is not specifically stated
in system of laws or religion,
as long as PEOPLE are involved in that religion,
then PEOPLE by conscience carry this law in our nature.

It may well BE true, that you are right and DT is wrong that this GR is not directly expressed in every religion, we cannot know that.

I do not believe that "the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this"...

But

If that is what you believe, than I would encourage you to continue believing as you do.

I have read your posts before, and noticed that you seem to have this aura about you that reflects positivity, "Light", and "goodness". At least, you seem to possess traits that other humans subjectively consider to be "good", and, I like that about you... even if my Nature is radically different than yours.

I like that you appear to truly believe the things you say, and I like that you do not seem to be the least bit hypocritical in them.


​

Are you okay with the idea that since it is inherently a natural law embodied in the conscience
of all people, we are under it anyway?

I am okay with others embracing that idea, even if I do not embrace it myself.
​

You obviously don't embrace anything good...Your evil persona would make Charles Mansion cringe.

Hi pbel:
The issue of human selfishness vs. inviting truly inhuman evil to takeover personalities
was studied and described in Scott Peck's books "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil"

Generally, such people open to demonic possession as Manson (or David Berkowitz who recovered
and returned to a positive spiritual mindset and personality completely free of the satanic/occult sickness)
REJECT and REBEL against any person who is spiritually on the light side such as Christians and especially priests.

in the cases of true oppression or possession, these evil spirits/entities/personalities
will INSULT and ATTACK the healing doctors or counselors in order to maintain control of their host.

If you read Goddess_Ashtara's messages, she is OPEN to wisdom and understanding
and RECEIVES other people, including me as child of God.

No demon or possessed person can stand to be in the presence of God's love
that threatens to free and heal the host!

If you read up on the process Scott Peck set up to observe
two dehabilitated Schizophrenic patients, considered incureable because of demonic personalities
that REFUSED any kind of intervention or help to heal the mental and physical illness and self-destructive behavior,
and how BOTH patients were cured and returned to their NORMAL personalities and mindsets
after the demonic obsessions were removed by Deliverance and Exorcism therapy,

then you might understand the difference.

In Peck's case, he didn't believe this was even real, he thought it was delusional mental illness,
and had to see it for himself, where it changed his mind completely.

I think having this knowledge and understanding would help you
NOT to be afraid, but to know that even the worst criminal illness or satanic abuse/addiction
can be healed as Berkowitz, former Son of Sam, has testified he was completely transformed
when he received this spiritual healing and removal of the occult sickness that pushed him to kill.

David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

"I was involved in the occult and I got burned. I became a cruel killer and threw away my life as well as destroyed the lives of others. Now I have discovered that Christ is my answer and my hope. He broke the chains of mental confusion and depression that had me bound. Today I have placed my life in His hands. I only wish I knew Jesus before all these crimes happened - they would not have happened.

May God bless everyone who is reading this message!

With Love in Christ,
David Berkowitz"

NOTE: I still believe in keeping people in detention, especially dangerous pedophile addicts.

The ones who are truly healed do not want to impose on people they know don't understand and will be afraid.
Even if they are still sick physically with addiction or relapse or risk of it, the ones whose minds are healed will work WITH authorities and comply and be grateful and do not seek to push to be free or selfish things.

So that's how you can tell the difference.

They ask to serve *within prisons* to help others there, so I think the churches who believe in rehab and restitution should support more max security prison centers for priests and others who have committed mass sexual abuse or trafficking/cult related crimes to serve their sentences while working in prisons to pay restitution financially or with their labor to their victims and society.

The ones who are truly healed ask to give back voluntarily, so this is not abusing prison labor when it is ministry.

Thank you for your words, however Satanic worshipers like Ashtara uses deception as a tool to fool, don't fall for it!

Does she really worship Satan?

 

[sealybobo]

Is 8220 Do What Thou Wilt 8221 a moral code

Golden rule Do unto others according to the 8220 pagans 8221 Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean

Seek and ye shall find!

FYI Christianity inherited the golden rule from pagan religions.

Paganism is not one religion.

It is many religions that share certain things in common that unifies them, and the Golden Rule is not one of those things.

But I said "countless Pagan religions", not "All pagan religions". Some Pagan religions may embrace a Golden Rule if they so choose. Modern Pagans have the freedom to create our own Pagan religious views and embrace whatever codes we Will. Paganism is badass like that.

Thelema'a saying of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, love is the law, love under Will"

DOES NOT equate to

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

It is open to interpretation, and by no means does it have to restrict our behavior or force us to embrace some "moral" code. Most of us view it as more of a reminder that our Destiny and True Will are in our own hands, that we may Forge our own path and follow our heart as we Will.

As for Left Hand Path religions, such groups tend to completely reject the "Golden Rule".


​

Please provide examples of "Left Hand Path religions" that "completely reject the 'Golden Rule'".

Here are a few examples:

***Every single nexion within the
Order of Nine Angles
aka
O9A

*The Temple of the Black Light aka Misanthropic Luciferian Order

*Luciferianism

Laveyan Satanism (lol)

***All forms of Spiritual/ Theistic Satanism
​

As I expected you had to resort to the pretensions of "Satanism". Too bad that it isn't actually an ancient religion at all but merely the term that the Jews used to describe pagans. There are no actual ancient texts of satanism as there are for other religions. The modern form of satanism is merely the inverse of Christianity hence there would not be any GR.

Satanism, Luciferianism, and all other Left Hand Path religions are still religions, and thus, you were wrong, and not every religion embraces the Golden Rule.

You even ignore the countless Pagan religions that did not and do not embrace the Golden Rule.

As for "Satanism"...

There is this saying.... the "Essence" is not the "Outer Form".

The various incarnations of Satanism are merely outer forms harnessing an ancient Essence that existed long before Satanism but was expressed in similar, yet more extreme, Left Hand Path religions... many of which were indeed Pagan in Nature.

The Golden Rule is not embraced by every religion.

​

Do you really worship Satan? Someone said you did. If so, I LOVE IT! Do you really or are you just ******* with theists?

 

[pbel]

​

Dear Goddess_Ashtara:
Would you agree that the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this.

So whether we teach it or not, whether it is conscious or not, whether it is or is not specifically stated
in system of laws or religion,
as long as PEOPLE are involved in that religion,
then PEOPLE by conscience carry this law in our nature.

It may well BE true, that you are right and DT is wrong that this GR is not directly expressed in every religion, we cannot know that.

I do not believe that "the Golden Rule is "inherent in natural laws" and
all human nature is subject to this"...

But

If that is what you believe, than I would encourage you to continue believing as you do.

I have read your posts before, and noticed that you seem to have this aura about you that reflects positivity, "Light", and "goodness". At least, you seem to possess traits that other humans subjectively consider to be "good", and, I like that about you... even if my Nature is radically different than yours.

I like that you appear to truly believe the things you say, and I like that you do not seem to be the least bit hypocritical in them.


​

Are you okay with the idea that since it is inherently a natural law embodied in the conscience
of all people, we are under it anyway?

I am okay with others embracing that idea, even if I do not embrace it myself.
​

You obviously don't embrace anything good...Your evil persona would make Charles Mansion cringe.

Hi pbel:
The issue of human selfishness vs. inviting truly inhuman evil to takeover personalities
was studied and described in Scott Peck's books "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil"

Generally, such people open to demonic possession as Manson (or David Berkowitz who recovered
and returned to a positive spiritual mindset and personality completely free of the satanic/occult sickness)
REJECT and REBEL against any person who is spiritually on the light side such as Christians and especially priests.

in the cases of true oppression or possession, these evil spirits/entities/personalities
will INSULT and ATTACK the healing doctors or counselors in order to maintain control of their host.

If you read Goddess_Ashtara's messages, she is OPEN to wisdom and understanding
and RECEIVES other people, including me as child of God.

No demon or possessed person can stand to be in the presence of God's love
that threatens to free and heal the host!

If you read up on the process Scott Peck set up to observe
two dehabilitated Schizophrenic patients, considered incureable because of demonic personalities
that REFUSED any kind of intervention or help to heal the mental and physical illness and self-destructive behavior,
and how BOTH patients were cured and returned to their NORMAL personalities and mindsets
after the demonic obsessions were removed by Deliverance and Exorcism therapy,

then you might understand the difference.

In Peck's case, he didn't believe this was even real, he thought it was delusional mental illness,
and had to see it for himself, where it changed his mind completely.

I think having this knowledge and understanding would help you
NOT to be afraid, but to know that even the worst criminal illness or satanic abuse/addiction
can be healed as Berkowitz, former Son of Sam, has testified he was completely transformed
when he received this spiritual healing and removal of the occult sickness that pushed him to kill.

David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

"I was involved in the occult and I got burned. I became a cruel killer and threw away my life as well as destroyed the lives of others. Now I have discovered that Christ is my answer and my hope. He broke the chains of mental confusion and depression that had me bound. Today I have placed my life in His hands. I only wish I knew Jesus before all these crimes happened - they would not have happened.

May God bless everyone who is reading this message!

With Love in Christ,
David Berkowitz"

NOTE: I still believe in keeping people in detention, especially dangerous pedophile addicts.

The ones who are truly healed do not want to impose on people they know don't understand and will be afraid.
Even if they are still sick physically with addiction or relapse or risk of it, the ones whose minds are healed will work WITH authorities and comply and be grateful and do not seek to push to be free or selfish things.

So that's how you can tell the difference.

They ask to serve *within prisons* to help others there, so I think the churches who believe in rehab and restitution should support more max security prison centers for priests and others who have committed mass sexual abuse or trafficking/cult related crimes to serve their sentences while working in prisons to pay restitution financially or with their labor to their victims and society.

The ones who are truly healed ask to give back voluntarily, so this is not abusing prison labor when it is ministry.

Thank you for your words, however Satanic worshipers like Ashtara uses deception as a tool to fool, don't fall for it!

Does she really worship Satan?

It appears that way, but read her posts all over these boards and evaluate.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You made the outrageous claim that it is a fact that the Golden rule is in every religion.

It may be in many of them, but it is definitely not in all of them.
​

In which case prove me wrong by citing the religions in which the golden rule does not exist.

Many theists here keep claiming atheism is a religion. Do you agree? If so, I don't know that we use the golden rule. Does that mean some religions don't use the golden rule or does that mean atheism is not a religion?

The GR is not owned by religions. It stands alone on its' own merits. If you are good person you apply the GR without even thinking about it. You don't even need to know that it exists to behave accordingly. Furthermore it has been around in one form or another and debated by philosophers for thousands of years.

Atheism has none of the characteristics that define a religion so the theists are 100% wrong. What is ironic is that they are actually harming their own religion by attempting to claim that atheism is a religion. (If you can have a religion (atheism) without a deity doesn't that mean that their religions don't have one either? )

So the GR is just a basis for having a civilized society and it in no way has any connection to a deity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If God will punish a woman for having an abortion, why do we need a human law against abortion?

 

[sealybobo]

You made the outrageous claim that it is a fact that the Golden rule is in every religion.

It may be in many of them, but it is definitely not in all of them.
​

In which case prove me wrong by citing the religions in which the golden rule does not exist.

Many theists here keep claiming atheism is a religion. Do you agree? If so, I don't know that we use the golden rule. Does that mean some religions don't use the golden rule or does that mean atheism is not a religion?

The GR is not owned by religions. It stands alone on its' own merits. If you are good person you apply the GR without even thinking about it. You don't even need to know that it exists to behave accordingly. Furthermore it has been around in one form or another and debated by philosophers for thousands of years.

Atheism has none of the characteristics that define a religion so the theists are 100% wrong. What is ironic is that they are actually harming their own religion by attempting to claim that atheism is a religion. (If you can have a religion (atheism) without a deity doesn't that mean that their religions don't have one either? )

So the GR is just a basis for having a civilized society and it in no way has any connection to a deity.

What is GR? I've also seen QW and I thought they were referring to Quantum Windbag.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If God will punish a woman for having an abortion, why do we need a human law against abortion?

If providing contraception under Obamacare reduces the need for abortions aren't those opposed to Obamacare actually guilty of causing abortions?

 

[Derideo_Te]

You made the outrageous claim that it is a fact that the Golden rule is in every religion.

It may be in many of them, but it is definitely not in all of them.
​

In which case prove me wrong by citing the religions in which the golden rule does not exist.

Many theists here keep claiming atheism is a religion. Do you agree? If so, I don't know that we use the golden rule. Does that mean some religions don't use the golden rule or does that mean atheism is not a religion?

The GR is not owned by religions. It stands alone on its' own merits. If you are good person you apply the GR without even thinking about it. You don't even need to know that it exists to behave accordingly. Furthermore it has been around in one form or another and debated by philosophers for thousands of years.

Atheism has none of the characteristics that define a religion so the theists are 100% wrong. What is ironic is that they are actually harming their own religion by attempting to claim that atheism is a religion. (If you can have a religion (atheism) without a deity doesn't that mean that their religions don't have one either? )

So the GR is just a basis for having a civilized society and it in no way has any connection to a deity.

What is GR? I've also seen QW and I thought they were referring to Quantum Windbag.

GR = Golden Rule

 

[sealybobo]

If God will punish a woman for having an abortion, why do we need a human law against abortion?

And the punishment for terminating a seed in the first trimester really burning in hell for all eternity?

If we are bad because we would abort a seed, how sick is god for making people burn in hell for all eternity?

Don't they learn their lesson after 1 minute of torture? Does god constantly cry about what he's doing to people in hell or is he a sick **** who laughs like USMB theists at the prospect of others burning in hell?

 

[sealybobo]

If God will punish a woman for having an abortion, why do we need a human law against abortion?

If providing contraception under Obamacare reduces the need for abortions aren't those opposed to Obamacare actually guilty of causing abortions?

It turns out that the chances of getting pregnant just using condoms and/or birth control is very high. I heard them talking about how IUD's would dramatically decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies.

Do you think the right would consider paying for IUD's? I don't. I think their wacky religious beliefs trump their common sense.

I'd rather pay for Jaqueta's IUD than the welfare she's going to need if she has a baby.

 

[emilynghiem]

Fear based religion is a contradiction. They preach about the "love of God" while threatening "eternal damnation" if you don't comply. That is a form of cognitive dissonance. Rational people understand that doing what is right is good and doing what is wrong will have very real consequences in this life. There is no need for any religious threat to make them into "good" people.

But again the question I posed to the OP. How do you know what is good?

When people agree that they want something and it is consistent with what other people want
as the greater good for all.

That is how we decide what is truth, what is true love, what is the right thing to do.
We check with all sources and form the best assessment possible,
based on agreement and consistency with all the given people and factors.

The more people we include in that equation, especially including those most diametically
opposed or even against each other, then when we find what we "agree is true, good, fair and accurate"
WOW it stands out as very obvious.

So that's why we need each other, to check and balance each other's judgment,
and make sure we truly assess all the facts and factors when deciding what is really the best
for our relationships, for society, and for the good of humanity.

We can always make a mistake, so we need to check with all sources!

I would mostly agree with this if we are talking about a typical cohesive modern Christian community.

But where do groups like the Westboro Baptists fit in to your concept? I'm sure their community all agrees that what they do is okay, while the huge majority of Christians would disagree. If you asked the orthodox Puritans in the 18th century what is the proper way to do good and the proper and good way to deal with heretics--think the stocks, the red letter, the banishments, the witch burnings, etc.--I'm sure they all would have agreed on what is good. But who among today's Christians would agree with what they considered good back then? How about the militant Muslim extremists who believe they obey and honor Allah when they behead an infidel? Or when they kill their errant daughter? I'm sure most of them agree on that, but who among us would say it is good?

Think of the orthodoxy of the Pharisees of Jesus' time and their agreement on keeping the Law in every way. Jesus of course didn't agree with them about a lot of that, but should he have conformed to their interpretation of what is good?

Think about how few of us agree on what qualities are good on a message board and what is unsatisfactory. How much more will we disagree on things like prayer in public places, abortion, the death penalty, what is and is not charity, what is a just war, how to deal with people who disagree with us on social policy, etc.?

So I think the answer to what is and is not good cannot always be ascertained by what is customary or socially proper or legalistic or via group think or agreement. I think there has to be some deeper criteria to base it on.

Thanks Foxfyre
The Westboro Baptist have to go through their own process and the part they play in it.
I love the responses by students and groups that used the rallies to embrace their opponents with love,
to do fundraisers for charities that help victims and people in need, and answer the anger with love that is greater.

If you look at the member(s) of Westboro who have had a change of heart and apologized,
we need to support that change and process instead of bashing and rejecting people in whatever stage they are in.

Anger is one stage of grief.
Denial also, which causes rejection and projection as a result of externalizing blame outward.

To understand the full process and stages of spiritual growth,
we can't just punish the two year olds for acting up, or the teenagers for rebelling and going nuts,
saying things in anger against parents they can't possibly mean.

We have to work with each person or group at the stages they are in
and walk them through to a better place. By embracing one another with forgiveness,
we can better make and receive corrections together, so everyone benefits and grows.

so I love and respect the people who have responded with greater love
and believe they have had an impact on humbling and changing others.

We can still use this stage of grief and anger for good purpose.
That doesn't mean we enable wild teenage behavior.
But we can understand it happens while progressing through spiritual stages of growth
and development toward a mature understanding and respect for humanity.

At least one member made that change.

And if you look at any group, from gangs to religious cults,
there are always those members who break free from the negative herd and mob mentality
and use their change to help the next person do the same.

We need to support those people, and the entire group to finish those changes,
to recognize the reforms needed and corrections are mutual and accept our part as well,
and not get so divided that we cannot help each other
to get to a better place.

The first step to working with someone is to acknowledge
where they are and that they are right, that things do need to change. There is a reason for why
this is happening, and we do need to work together to uncover and fulfill the higher purpose.

 

[emilynghiem]

If God will punish a woman for having an abortion, why do we need a human law against abortion?

If providing contraception under Obamacare reduces the need for abortions aren't those opposed to Obamacare actually guilty of causing abortions?

Sure Derideo_Te,
and if I am not personally in China right now stopping a forced abortion
or adopting a baby myself, I am indirectly responsible by omission
for one more lost child that could have been saved.

I am not the only way to save babies and women from forced abortions in China.

Obamacare is not the only way to provide contraception or prevent pregnancies either!
===============================================
(PS if you know that pushing Obamacare is going to cause disruption and rejection,
why not use all those same efforts and push health care directly instead of pushing
Obamacare that is going to cause division and waste time and resources fighting.

If you know that requiring your neighbors to lend their hammers to build some houses
is going to start a fight and waste time, why not focus on getting and using your
own hammers from people who agree to help with that housing project?

Let the neighbors use their hammers to build a bigger apartment complex or
campus community that can house more people as their contribution. Maybe there is a reason they want to save their hammers for a project they believe will solve the problem better.)