If women can get abortions, men should be able to opt out of fatherhood

[LibertyLemming]

Not the same thing. In the case of an abortion there is no child for anyone to pay for. The slate is wiped clean, so to speak. If the baby is born then it has to be taken care of and both parents need to bear responsibility.

I don't feel bad for guys who get stuck paying child support for a kid they had out of wedlock. They're victims only of their own actions so they need to man up and face the consequences. Birth control is 99.9% affective, so there is no reason for an unwanted pregnancy these days other than shear irresponsibility on the part of both the man and the woman.

Well hence why we are saying it would be done before birth. The double standard is there you just don't seem to have an issue with it. Women can opt out, men cannot.

Your entire last comment could easily be directed at women having abortions.

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

I assume you do not advocate legal abortion ?

 

[AmyNation]

If women were required to notify all potential fathers of a future child, before the woman hit 15 weeks, then both parties would be able to go forward on equal ground.

Either the man will accept responsibility or he can opt out, and the woman can either choose to terminate/adoption or prepare for being a single mother.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Well hence why we are saying it would be done before birth. The double standard is there you just don't seem to have an issue with it. Women can opt out, men cannot.

Your entire last comment could easily be directed at women having abortions.

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

I assume you do not advocate legal abortion ?

Why would you assume that? I'm pro-choice. I don't get how, based on my opinion, you come to the conclusion that I think abortion should be outlawed.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If women were required to notify all potential fathers of a future child, before the woman hit 15 weeks, then both parties would be able to go forward on equal ground.

Either the man will accept responsibility or he can opt out, and the woman can either choose to terminate/adoption or prepare for being a single mother.

Again, and I don't know how many times I can drive this point home, but it's not about what is "fair" to the father and/or mother. It's about making sure the child is well cared for. It is only about the child.

What would happen in a nation with your proposed law if the mother failed to notify the father within 15 weeks of pregnancy or didn't even know she was pregnant until after that point (It does happen on occasion) and she decides to keep the baby, but isn't financially prepared to do so? We just say fuck it so the kid can be raised on welfare and you and I pay for him? Yeah, there's some justice. Dad gets off the hook, but now I get to pay for Johnny.

 

[Grandma]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

 

[Bigfoot]

It's not only about the child, the present Child Support system is a government run racket.

 

[Noomi]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

But wouldn't the same work for women? Don't want a baby, have your tubes tied??

 

[Political Junky]

I find it highly hypocritical that a woman can get an abortion, without notifying the man who impregnated her, and without even justifying it. Yet if a woman gets pregnant, keeps the baby, the male now has to pay child support. That is insane. Men should be able to opt out completely from being involved in raising the child and not have to pay a dime of child support since women can do the same thing via abortion.

Ask Joe Walsh about that, his congressional salary is being garnished to pay his back child support.

 

[OKTexas]

Not the same thing. In the case of an abortion there is no child for anyone to pay for. The slate is wiped clean, so to speak. If the baby is born then it has to be taken care of and both parents need to bear responsibility.

I don't feel bad for guys who get stuck paying child support for a kid they had out of wedlock. They're victims only of their own actions so they need to man up and face the consequences. Birth control is 99.9% affective, so there is no reason for an unwanted pregnancy these days other than shear irresponsibility on the part of both the man and the woman.

Well hence why we are saying it would be done before birth. The double standard is there you just don't seem to have an issue with it. Women can opt out, men cannot.

Your entire last comment could easily be directed at women having abortions.

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

You are confusing biology with how an individual is treated under the law. They are not one in the same. The law says a woman can carry to term and keep the child or she can terminate the pregnancy, as it stands now the potential father has no choices under the law. If he wants the child he cannot compell her to carry to term, if doesn't want the child he cannot compell her to terminate. How would you say that legally squares with his 14th Amendment rights for equal protection under the law? Under the current system, he does not want to be a father and the woman choses not to terminate, he becomes an indentured servant to her for as long as 25 years. Where is his right to the persuit of happiness and liberty. Remeber we are talking legally, not morally or biologically.

 

[bripat9643]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

If you don't want to think, then get a lobotomy.

Whoops! You already did.

 

[Si modo]

I find it highly hypocritical that a woman can get an abortion, without notifying the man who impregnated her, and without even justifying it. Yet if a woman gets pregnant, keeps the baby, the male now has to pay child support. That is insane. Men should be able to opt out completely from being involved in raising the child and not have to pay a dime of child support since women can do the same thing via abortion.

Ask Joe Walsh about that, his congressional salary is being garnished to pay his back child support.

No it's not.

He has automatic deductions for his current support payments, as most men who pay child support chose to do.

Hack.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

I assume you do not advocate legal abortion ?

Why would you assume that? I'm pro-choice. I don't get how, based on my opinion, you come to the conclusion that I think abortion should be outlawed.

What part of your statement does NOT apply o the woman TOO? Is she not equally responsible for birth control? Is she not equally responsible for the sex act? Is she not as responsible for the Pregnancy as the man? But you would forgive her all her responsibility. Why is that?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

"opt out"....."opt for an abortion".....his option....her option....

....what about the baby's option....? a baby has the natural right to LIVE...

 

[Dreamy]

When a pregnancy happens only one half of the baby maker is given "choices". The woman. The man and baby are without choices and are left at the "mercy" of the woman and whatever she decides. Not very democratic but BC used faithfully would make this less of a conflict.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

If she does not want to get pregnant she should have her tubes tied. Same argument.

 

[LibertyLemming]

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

I assume you do not advocate legal abortion ?

Why would you assume that? I'm pro-choice. I don't get how, based on my opinion, you come to the conclusion that I think abortion should be outlawed.

Well you seem to want to make it about the child and not the parents yet you have no problem with the child being aborted and not even existing (perhaps because it would be too great a burden on the parents)? Just seems strange.

 

[Grandma]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

If you don't want to think, then get a lobotomy.

Whoops! You already did.

What a stupid thing to say.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Can people quit making this about the child or about abortion. This is about equal rights for men and women. If you want to debate a different topic make a new thread.

 

[Dreamy]

Not the same thing. In the case of an abortion there is no child for anyone to pay for. The slate is wiped clean, so to speak. If the baby is born then it has to be taken care of and both parents need to bear responsibility.

I don't feel bad for guys who get stuck paying child support for a kid they had out of wedlock. They're victims only of their own actions so they need to man up and face the consequences. Birth control is 99.9% affective, so there is no reason for an unwanted pregnancy these days other than shear irresponsibility on the part of both the man and the woman.

Well hence why we are saying it would be done before birth. The double standard is there you just don't seem to have an issue with it. Women can opt out, men cannot.

Your entire last comment could easily be directed at women having abortions.

It's not a double standard, it's nature. If you don't like the way our biology is take it up with God. The child has to be cared for, period. That is the issue here and that is the purpose of child support. Whether or not you find that fair is completely irrelevant because it's not about you or men versus women, it's about the child. Don't get someone pregnant if you aren't ready to be a father and then you'll never have to deal with this situation. It's really quite a simple concept.

I would agree about the above but then again could we not also say to women who get pregnant and choose to abort don't get pregnant if you are not ready to be a mother and you won't have to deal with abortion or pregnancy?

 

[Grandma]

If you don't want to pay for your kid, get a vasectomy. There - problem solved.

But wouldn't the same work for women? Don't want a baby, have your tubes tied??

Get the shots, get the implants, get on the pill, whatever works. The OP was about men and abortions/child support, so that's what I addressed.