If wealthy, hard working, law abiding, patriotic REAL Americans support Trump

[Toro]

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

Not according to United States law. Once the colonies declared independence they rejected British law and what you are calling treason became patriotism.

Wrong.

British common law is a foundation of American jurisprudence.

No, you are wrong. A foundation is not the actual law. British laws were not enforcible in American courts. An American could not be arrested and go on trial for treason in an American court. They had to be captured and go on trial in a British court or military tribunal. A war was being fought to establish which system would prevail. America won.

No, that is wrong.

Statutes supersede common law. But if there are no statutes, common law takes precedence, even if that common law predates independence.

 

[konradv]

What type of person is it that doesn’t support the Trump agenda/administration? Has anyone “polled” for that yet?

False premise, many "wealthy, hard working, law abiding, patriotic REAL Americans" don't support Trump and some who did are changing their minds.

Opinion | I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It.
Meet the Trump regretters, who wish they could change their vote

 

[BrokeLoser]

What type of person is it that doesn’t support the Trump agenda/administration?
Has anyone “polled” for that yet?

Patriotic? You have an avatar with the Confederate flag. Traitor.

Haha...that’s funny shit.
You might want to look up the definition of “Patriot”....none of the definition fits a LefTard.


pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"

a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

That certainly describes me. I'm not 100% sure that definition describes someone who flies the flag of losing traitors, but it definitely describes me and all my liberal "leftist" friends.

You might want to look up the definition of “Patriot”....none of the definition fits a LefTard.


pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"

You might want to look up they don't go around flying the flag of Americas enemies and former enemies.

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

And if the South had won, they could have written their traitorous history differently. The traitors lost that time.

“So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.”

Lowlife fools programmed to believe that government is their king and savior see it that way...they NEED government to hold their hand and walk them through life. I get it. REAL Constitutional Americans know that .GOVs only job is to govern the people (their employers) by way of the Bill Of Rights. When they don’t do that we fight. When someone shits in your face and you become retaliatory you can’t hardly call that a betrayal. Please see the free enlightenment below. Let me know what else I can teach you.

trai·tor
ˈtrādər/
noun

1. a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
   
   
   

 

[Nosmo King]

The left hate Trumps agenda’



Jobs for Americans
Tax cuts for Americans
Free will for Americans

Shit they hate that freedom stuff.


They especially hate it that he values Americans over illegals.

What makes you think that?

Have you considered that people don't like his character, his comportment, his wish for a lap dance from Pitin, his free Wheeling attitude toward the justice system, his dalliances with porn stars, his hair trigger temper? Your list is made of whole cloth and riddled with assumptions drawn from thin air.

So that tells me you are willing to ruin the country because you don’t like him? You ass wipes had no problems with Clinton’s morals. Weiner morals, if it’s a Democrats morals be dammed right?

I'm not ruined no the country. Trump is.

And it's not just his morals that you seem to be flexible with. It's his lies. It's his attitude toward people who are not white or male. It's his bromance with Putin. It's his attitude toward the justice system. It's his predilection toward bullying. It's every character flaw that the Trumpians seem to ignore.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

Not according to United States law. Once the colonies declared independence they rejected British law and what you are calling treason became patriotism.

So, if Timothy McVeigh declared independence, then his actions would have been patriotism and not treason?

No, I do nor equate McVeigh with the 13 Colonies that wrote and signed a Declaration of Independence declaring themselves an independent nation.

That's not what I asked, is it?

I asked IF McVeigh declared independence, not that he did (fine, I should have used "if he had declared" third condition and not second condition, but whatever dude) would he have been a patriot instead (see, I got 3rd Conditional for the second part).

So, would you care to respond to the question I asked rather than the question you decided to read?

McVeigh was a traitor because he made a violent military assault and attack to an American government facility. He was nor charged with treason. He was charged as a common mass murderer. A political decision to keep his motives hidden and out of the media discussion.

Ah, so traitor if you make a violent military assault? What do you think the Confederates did? They killed 140,000 US troops.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Patriotic? You have an avatar with the Confederate flag. Traitor.

a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

That certainly describes me. I'm not 100% sure that definition describes someone who flies the flag of losing traitors, but it definitely describes me and all my liberal "leftist" friends.

You might want to look up they don't go around flying the flag of Americas enemies and former enemies.

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

And if the South had won, they could have written their traitorous history differently. The traitors lost that time.

“So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.”

Lowlife fools programmed to believe that government is their king and savior see it that way...they NEED government to hold their hand and walk them through life. I get it. REAL Constitutional Americans know that .GOVs only job is to govern the people (their employers) by way of the Bill Of Rights. When they don’t do that we fight. When someone shits in your face and you become retaliatory you can’t hardly call that a betrayal. Please see the free enlightenment below. Let me know what else I can teach you.

trai·tor
ˈtrādər/
noun

1. a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
   
   

We're not talking about the principles here. Whether the Confederates were justified in what they did, whether they were right or wrong, it makes no difference.

Their country was the US. They betrayed that country, they fought against it.

We're not talking about whether the politicians on the other side were traitors either. Personally I think a lot of these politicians are traitors.

But the Confederates betrayed their country. They didn't stand and fight for the US. They didn't fight to improve the US. They fought to leave it. That alone makes them traitors.

Now, take Catalonia in Spain. Those who support independence are traitors to Spain. I still support them. But unless they WIN their fight, they'll always be traitors.

The problem here is the term traitor is considered a bad word. Like terrorist. It's covered in bad. Freedom fighter is a nice word. Good people are freedom fighters, bad people are terrorists. But a person can be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. It all depends on who's shouting at them.

If you are American and you support the Confederacy, you're a traitor. There's nothing you can do about this. It's not opinion. It's fact. You might think being a traitor is a good thing, but you're still a traitor and NOT a patriot.

You're not a patriot because the Confederacy LOST.

So, to come on this forum and claim you're a patriot is nonsense. You simple aren't.

You have you views, you have your principles (potentially) and that's fine. But don't pretend you're something you're not.

 

[Camp]

Not according to United States law. Once the colonies declared independence they rejected British law and what you are calling treason became patriotism.

So, if Timothy McVeigh declared independence, then his actions would have been patriotism and not treason?

No, I do nor equate McVeigh with the 13 Colonies that wrote and signed a Declaration of Independence declaring themselves an independent nation.

That's not what I asked, is it?

I asked IF McVeigh declared independence, not that he did (fine, I should have used "if he had declared" third condition and not second condition, but whatever dude) would he have been a patriot instead (see, I got 3rd Conditional for the second part).

So, would you care to respond to the question I asked rather than the question you decided to read?

McVeigh was a traitor because he made a violent military assault and attack to an American government facility. He was nor charged with treason. He was charged as a common mass murderer. A political decision to keep his motives hidden and out of the media discussion.

Ah, so traitor if you make a violent military assault? What do you think the Confederates did? They killed 140,000 US troops.

Confederates were the biggest traitors.They should have been rounded up and all the leaders hung.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

And if the South had won, they could have written their traitorous history differently. The traitors lost that time.

“So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.”

Lowlife fools programmed to believe that government is their king and savior see it that way...they NEED government to hold their hand and walk them through life. I get it. REAL Constitutional Americans know that .GOVs only job is to govern the people (their employers) by way of the Bill Of Rights. When they don’t do that we fight. When someone shits in your face and you become retaliatory you can’t hardly call that a betrayal. Please see the free enlightenment below. Let me know what else I can teach you.

trai·tor
ˈtrādər/
noun

1. a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

We're not talking about the principles here. Whether the Confederates were justified in what they did, whether they were right or wrong, it makes no difference.

Their country was the US. They betrayed that country, they fought against it.

We're not talking about whether the politicians on the other side were traitors either. Personally I think a lot of these politicians are traitors.

But the Confederates betrayed their country. They didn't stand and fight for the US. They didn't fight to improve the US. They fought to leave it. That alone makes them traitors.

Now, take Catalonia in Spain. Those who support independence are traitors to Spain. I still support them. But unless they WIN their fight, they'll always be traitors.

The problem here is the term traitor is considered a bad word. Like terrorist. It's covered in bad. Freedom fighter is a nice word. Good people are freedom fighters, bad people are terrorists. But a person can be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. It all depends on who's shouting at them.

If you are American and you support the Confederacy, you're a traitor. There's nothing you can do about this. It's not opinion. It's fact. You might think being a traitor is a good thing, but you're still a traitor and NOT a patriot.

You're not a patriot because the Confederacy LOST.

So, to come on this forum and claim you're a patriot is nonsense. You simple aren't.

You have you views, you have your principles (potentially) and that's fine. But don't pretend you're something you're not.

Camp
Your self manipulated interpretation couldn’t be more wrong...the confederacy fought for ‘the people’ of the Union against an unconstitutional government made up of people elected and employed by the Union.
Again, fighting for rights granted to us by our founders in a retaliatory manner is and always will be justified regardless of who the opposition may be....only government dependents on the .GOV tit see it otherwise.
Keep trying though...this is fun.

 

[Darkwind]

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

And if the South had won, they could have written their traitorous history differently. The traitors lost that time.

Missed the point, didn't you.

 

[Darkwind]

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

When it reaches a point where I don't have it anymore, I have one thing left..... a .45ACP bullet with my initials and the letters RIP engraved on the casing. It goes up under the chin with a slight rearward cant to the muzzle, and everything ends.

I will not be a burden to others simply because I cannot do for myself. Not my wife. Not Society. Not anyone.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

Not according to United States law. Once the colonies declared independence they rejected British law and what you are calling treason became patriotism.

You, too, missed the point.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Selfish, in other words.

Don't ask what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.

No. I don't ask for (or take) anything from this country. When my wife and I got married we cancelled her Social Security Disability payments and got her off Medicare and Meidcaid. I've already sent letters to both of those organizations indicating I WILL NOT take their monies or services when I get older. I want nothing financial from this country. Not before. Not now. Not ever. I don't accept charity either. I ask nothing of others and I offer nothing in return.

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

Therein lies the problem. This country didn't used to be like that. There was a time when people could make a decent living, one you could retire on. There was no need for social security and all of these other government programs.

Over time, due to massive government spending and other things, the government has been increasing the taxation of the citizenry, and the economy has gotten so horrible that people are working harder than ever, just to get by.

This is not the way it's supposed to be. We need to be actively trying to reduce the government footprint in our lives. We need to be lowering taxes, reducing government waste and spending, and put the power of the economy back in the hands of the people, where it belongs, that way, each American can prosper.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What type of person is it that doesn’t support the Trump agenda/administration?
Has anyone “polled” for that yet?

Patriotic? You have an avatar with the Confederate flag. Traitor.

Haha...that’s funny shit.
You might want to look up the definition of “Patriot”....none of the definition fits a LefTard.


pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"

a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

That certainly describes me. I'm not 100% sure that definition describes someone who flies the flag of losing traitors, but it definitely describes me and all my liberal "leftist" friends.

You might want to look up the definition of “Patriot”....none of the definition fits a LefTard.


pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"

You might want to look up they don't go around flying the flag of Americas enemies and former enemies.

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

No, it's exactly the opposite. Somehow, somewhere, people have gotten the idea that the government is the country, and I'm sure that the government enjoys people thinking that way.

The country is the land, it's people, and the values and ideals that were the basis for it's foundation. The government is supposed to work for the people and when the government strays from it's primary role, it's the duty of the people to put government back in its place. This is even written into the declaration of independence.

Citizens fighting for their rights against an oppressive government is how this country was founded.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, if Timothy McVeigh declared independence, then his actions would have been patriotism and not treason?

No, I do nor equate McVeigh with the 13 Colonies that wrote and signed a Declaration of Independence declaring themselves an independent nation.

That's not what I asked, is it?

I asked IF McVeigh declared independence, not that he did (fine, I should have used "if he had declared" third condition and not second condition, but whatever dude) would he have been a patriot instead (see, I got 3rd Conditional for the second part).

So, would you care to respond to the question I asked rather than the question you decided to read?

McVeigh was a traitor because he made a violent military assault and attack to an American government facility. He was nor charged with treason. He was charged as a common mass murderer. A political decision to keep his motives hidden and out of the media discussion.

Ah, so traitor if you make a violent military assault? What do you think the Confederates did? They killed 140,000 US troops.

Confederates were the biggest traitors.They should have been rounded up and all the leaders hung.

That's kind of my point.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

And that's illegal, isn't it?

It was illegal to rebel against the Crown as well.

And if the South had won, they could have written their traitorous history differently. The traitors lost that time.

“So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.”

Lowlife fools programmed to believe that government is their king and savior see it that way...they NEED government to hold their hand and walk them through life. I get it. REAL Constitutional Americans know that .GOVs only job is to govern the people (their employers) by way of the Bill Of Rights. When they don’t do that we fight. When someone shits in your face and you become retaliatory you can’t hardly call that a betrayal. Please see the free enlightenment below. Let me know what else I can teach you.

trai·tor
ˈtrādər/
noun

1. a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

We're not talking about the principles here. Whether the Confederates were justified in what they did, whether they were right or wrong, it makes no difference.

Their country was the US. They betrayed that country, they fought against it.

We're not talking about whether the politicians on the other side were traitors either. Personally I think a lot of these politicians are traitors.

But the Confederates betrayed their country. They didn't stand and fight for the US. They didn't fight to improve the US. They fought to leave it. That alone makes them traitors.

Now, take Catalonia in Spain. Those who support independence are traitors to Spain. I still support them. But unless they WIN their fight, they'll always be traitors.

The problem here is the term traitor is considered a bad word. Like terrorist. It's covered in bad. Freedom fighter is a nice word. Good people are freedom fighters, bad people are terrorists. But a person can be both a freedom fighter and a terrorist. It all depends on who's shouting at them.

If you are American and you support the Confederacy, you're a traitor. There's nothing you can do about this. It's not opinion. It's fact. You might think being a traitor is a good thing, but you're still a traitor and NOT a patriot.

You're not a patriot because the Confederacy LOST.

So, to come on this forum and claim you're a patriot is nonsense. You simple aren't.

You have you views, you have your principles (potentially) and that's fine. But don't pretend you're something you're not.

Camp
Your self manipulated interpretation couldn’t be more wrong...the confederacy fought for ‘the people’ of the Union against an unconstitutional government made up of people elected and employed by the Union.
Again, fighting for rights granted to us by our founders in a retaliatory manner is and always will be justified regardless of who the opposition may be....only government dependents on the .GOV tit see it otherwise.
Keep trying though...this is fun.

No, again, you're trying to twist this.

Their government was the US govt. Not the Confederacy. Why? Because the US govt won.

The same in the War of Independence. The Colonists were traitors, but THEY WON, so, they don't get accused of being traitors because they won, and therefore they're not British any more, therefore it doesn't matter.

You're still American, still supporting a group that didn't want to be part of the US. That's traitorous.

Again, it doesn't make a single bit of difference whether what you were fighting for was right or wrong. The definition of a traitor fits EXACTLY people who try to leave their own country through physical force.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Selfish, in other words.

Don't ask what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.

No. I don't ask for (or take) anything from this country. When my wife and I got married we cancelled her Social Security Disability payments and got her off Medicare and Meidcaid. I've already sent letters to both of those organizations indicating I WILL NOT take their monies or services when I get older. I want nothing financial from this country. Not before. Not now. Not ever. I don't accept charity either. I ask nothing of others and I offer nothing in return.

Well you're lucky you could do that. If you're not rich enough, then what choice do you have? In a country with the worst wealth gap in the First World, you've either got it or not.

Therein lies the problem. This country didn't used to be like that. There was a time when people could make a decent living, one you could retire on. There was no need for social security and all of these other government programs.

Over time, due to massive government spending and other things, the government has been increasing the taxation of the citizenry, and the economy has gotten so horrible that people are working harder than ever, just to get by.

This is not the way it's supposed to be. We need to be actively trying to reduce the government footprint in our lives. We need to be lowering taxes, reducing government waste and spending, and put the power of the economy back in the hands of the people, where it belongs, that way, each American can prosper.

Some people were. If I remember correctly the anti-Federalists made up about 1/3 of the country in 1789.

The biggest problems is that there are two political parties. Easily manipulated by the rich, hard for the issues that the people take seriously to come to the fore.

Proportional Representation would not only bring Democracy to the US, it would also bring CHOICE.

In Germany the people have the choice of 6 different political parties, all on a different political spectrum, all with different views on how things should be done. No one political party controls everything. The CDU has never been in government alone, it has to form a coalition.

Most people get represented in the Bundestag.

They actually vote twice, once similar to the US and one PR.

It's interesting.

With PR 44.1 million people voted for one of the political parties that gained at least one seat. There's a 5% threshold that you need to pass.

46.9 milliom people voted, which means 2.7 million people did not get representation. That's about 6% of the population.

With FPTP the CDU/CSU gained 37.2% of the votes and 77% of the seats. Therefore those who voted for CDU/CSU basically got double representation.

The FDP gained 7% of the votes and got zero seats. With PR they 10.7% of the vote. So, 10.7% of people wanted to vote for them, 3.7% felt under FPTP it wasn't worth it and still it made no difference, they got zero seats under FPTP.

So, basically the number of votes lost is massive.

Same thing happens in the US. People feel they can't vote for anyone else, so they don't. They end up voting for the main two parties.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Patriotic? You have an avatar with the Confederate flag. Traitor.

a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

That certainly describes me. I'm not 100% sure that definition describes someone who flies the flag of losing traitors, but it definitely describes me and all my liberal "leftist" friends.

You might want to look up they don't go around flying the flag of Americas enemies and former enemies.

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

No, it's exactly the opposite. Somehow, somewhere, people have gotten the idea that the government is the country, and I'm sure that the government enjoys people thinking that way.

The country is the land, it's people, and the values and ideals that were the basis for it's foundation. The government is supposed to work for the people and when the government strays from it's primary role, it's the duty of the people to put government back in its place. This is even written into the declaration of independence.

Citizens fighting for their rights against an oppressive government is how this country was founded.

It doesn't matter if you think the govt is the country or not.

The Confederates tries TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY. Simple as that. Which ever way you try and twist this, they're traitors.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Hold on a minute...it’s 1861 and the government is depriving citizens of Constitutional rights...why wouldn’t you respect the courage of citizens willing to take up arms against government to preserve your rights? Do you hate your rights?
Would you just roll over and take it in the a$$ from .GOV?

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

No, it's exactly the opposite. Somehow, somewhere, people have gotten the idea that the government is the country, and I'm sure that the government enjoys people thinking that way.

The country is the land, it's people, and the values and ideals that were the basis for it's foundation. The government is supposed to work for the people and when the government strays from it's primary role, it's the duty of the people to put government back in its place. This is even written into the declaration of independence.

Citizens fighting for their rights against an oppressive government is how this country was founded.

It doesn't matter if you think the govt is the country or not.

The Confederates tries TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY. Simple as that. Which ever way you try and twist this, they're traitors.

So you believe loyalty to the government is patriotism, and trying to stand against oppressive and tyrannical government is traitorism?

If that's the case, then I'm sorry you feel that way. It is not the way it's supposed to be.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's a difference between patriot and person who fights for their rights, right?

If you want to fight your own country and leave, you're not a patriot no matter how much you spin it.

NEGATIVE...
del nat4900
Your founders wrote you a Bill Of Rights...”your country” (the Feds) work for you. When they shit in your face by not adhering to the framework set forth by your founders you should be ready to fight.....unless you’re ******* *****.

So, you should be ready to be a traitor...... and you seem proud to be a traitor.

No, it's exactly the opposite. Somehow, somewhere, people have gotten the idea that the government is the country, and I'm sure that the government enjoys people thinking that way.

The country is the land, it's people, and the values and ideals that were the basis for it's foundation. The government is supposed to work for the people and when the government strays from it's primary role, it's the duty of the people to put government back in its place. This is even written into the declaration of independence.

Citizens fighting for their rights against an oppressive government is how this country was founded.

It doesn't matter if you think the govt is the country or not.

The Confederates tries TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY. Simple as that. Which ever way you try and twist this, they're traitors.

So you believe loyalty to the government is patriotism, and trying to stand against oppressive and tyrannical government is traitorism?

If that's the case, then I'm sorry you feel that way. It is not the way it's supposed to be.

I'm not a patriot. I don't like patriotism, I think it's an emotional thing that has no real basis in reality.

However patriotism could be seen in many different ways, the way I'm looking at it is from the manner in which "patriots" discuss "patriotism".

People who use it to attack their political opponents.

How is it patriotic to fight against the US, kill 140,000 US military personnel, but it's NOT patriotic to kneel at a football game during the anthem.

Do you see the problem there?


I was in Kosovo a year before they gained independence and I marched with the people there. I've lived in various regions of Spain that want to be separate from Spain. I've been to Scotland, I've been to Xinjiang in China and I've thought about and discussed the issues of these regions.

My view is that people should the ability to decide their own future. I understand that there are people who make all this political, make people want to leave when they didn't before.

However, people should be free to do so.

I'd have no problem with the South separating from the North and making its own country in the 1860s, or now. The US has always been divided and it'll always cause problems. With freedom of speech this will always happen.

However, a person who wants to be free of a country is NOT a patriot of the country they want to be free from. It's a simple fact of life. Me saying this does not suggest that I have an opinion about what's going on at all.

A person flying the Confederate flag is flying the flag of treason, not patriotism. There's no opinion there at all. The opinion I have I stated above, and requires extra words.