If There Is No God, Murder Is Not Wrong

[Weatherman2020]

Says who? You?

Says Logic.


Also, your god drown more plants, animals and humans than any pol pot or hitler ever did. Congrats, scum of the earth...you worship an immoral monster from a fairy tale. Are you eleven?

Logic and the laws of nature says survival of the fittest. Don’t try to shove the morality you borrowed from religion onto what is natural.

Yes. and the fittest humans survived by forming communities

communities survive by having an ethic based on well being


youre getting it, dumb dumb!!

Yep. Some of histories communities:
Nazi Germany
Mao China
Stalin Russia
Imperial Japan
Pot Cambodia


All perfect examples of what you say are just as moral as you are because they set rules.

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

 

[G.T.]

Says Logic.


Also, your god drown more plants, animals and humans than any pol pot or hitler ever did. Congrats, scum of the earth...you worship an immoral monster from a fairy tale. Are you eleven?

Logic and the laws of nature says survival of the fittest. Don’t try to shove the morality you borrowed from religion onto what is natural.

Yes. and the fittest humans survived by forming communities

communities survive by having an ethic based on well being


youre getting it, dumb dumb!!

Yep. Some of histories communities:
Nazi Germany
Mao China
Stalin Russia
Imperial Japan
Pot Cambodia


All perfect examples of what you say are just as moral as you are because they set rules.

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

That wasnt an argument, corky. And Im not on any boat. Are you on medication? You outright admitted in your dopey OP that the only thing that holds you back from all the murderous, rapey evil you desire is an invisible sky pixie that murdered almost every living thing on earth via drowning.

Sick!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Logic and the laws of nature says survival of the fittest. Don’t try to shove the morality you borrowed from religion onto what is natural.

Yes. and the fittest humans survived by forming communities

communities survive by having an ethic based on well being


youre getting it, dumb dumb!!

Yep. Some of histories communities:
Nazi Germany
Mao China
Stalin Russia
Imperial Japan
Pot Cambodia


All perfect examples of what you say are just as moral as you are because they set rules.

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

That wasnt an argument, corky. And Im not on any boat. Are you on medication? You outright admitted in your dopey OP that the only thing that holds you back from all the murderous, rapey evil you desire is an invisible sky pixie that murdered almost every living thing on earth via drowning.

Sick!

You’re a naive child to think the thoughts rattling around inside your skull are more moral than anyone else’s.

 

[G.T.]

Yes. and the fittest humans survived by forming communities

communities survive by having an ethic based on well being


youre getting it, dumb dumb!!

Yep. Some of histories communities:
Nazi Germany
Mao China
Stalin Russia
Imperial Japan
Pot Cambodia


All perfect examples of what you say are just as moral as you are because they set rules.

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

That wasnt an argument, corky. And Im not on any boat. Are you on medication? You outright admitted in your dopey OP that the only thing that holds you back from all the murderous, rapey evil you desire is an invisible sky pixie that murdered almost every living thing on earth via drowning.

Sick!

You’re a naive child to think the thoughts rattling around inside your skull are more moral than anyone else’s.

Bye bye weatherman. Religious folks bore me after a while...no backbone or spine or content in their arguments and it just becomes blather.

Your, personal OP started as blather. Its so ******* retarded that even religious folks are disagreeing with it. Thats impressive!

Movie time.

 

[Vastator]

Your logic is incoherent.

If morality is merely what humans have created as their best system to advance well-being, then there are objective right and wrong answers using cause and effect analysis to determine the best moral systems.

That's also indicative in reality, and not just philosophically - as we evolve, previously accepted morals have become barbaric, or extinct. That's due to a better cause/effect analysis, as it pertains to well-being.

It's pretty simple shit.

You'll never be the toughest guy on earth...therefore, it's probably not a good idea to let folks Murder, because it would damage your own well-being.

From there, it's a logical chain of "morals" that becomes self evident, in nature alone. No God needed but in FACT, the "God" of the bible is not trust-worthy, as he's ordered genocide, rape, baby killing etc. in one "covenant" and changed his mind in the next. His morals are subjective, not universal or unchanging...and they're also pretty abhorrent, at that.

Secular society has caused almost ALL religions to, COUGH, "reinterpret" their scriptures as we've evolved to thinking that their past interpretations were Barbaric. That's history, fingers in your ears.

There you go. Morality is OK when it’s defined by YOU. But YOU are just one voice of 3 BILLION voices.

Your inability to grasp the basic logic of who’s going to set rules for behavior is troubling for society. It’s why we are seeing a resurgence of advocates for communism and socialism. You can’t learn basic principles.

Let me help you.

Jeffry Dahmer is just as moral as Mother Teresa if there is no God. Fact. No dancing around it.

Morality is not some magical thing bestowed upon us. Its a mere name we have given to our ethical systems. The argument youre having with yourself presupposes that its magical. Its not. Its apparent survival ethics. Cause and effect. Easy concepts.

We are just animals and kill for pleasure as well as for food.

It’s only natural to shoot children.

According to you.

What I see is that humans form social communes and they've elevated us to the fittest species on earth.

Ah, humans form social communities for morality!

Like the community that took hundreds of thousands of babies by the feet and bashed their brains out against this tree.

View attachment 274410

Perfectly acceptable and unacceptable for you to push your twisted beliefs upon them.

In group preferences do tend to change the dynamic.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yep. Some of histories communities:
Nazi Germany
Mao China
Stalin Russia
Imperial Japan
Pot Cambodia


All perfect examples of what you say are just as moral as you are because they set rules.

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

That wasnt an argument, corky. And Im not on any boat. Are you on medication? You outright admitted in your dopey OP that the only thing that holds you back from all the murderous, rapey evil you desire is an invisible sky pixie that murdered almost every living thing on earth via drowning.

Sick!

You’re a naive child to think the thoughts rattling around inside your skull are more moral than anyone else’s.

Bye bye weatherman. Religious folks bore me after a while...no backbone or spine or content in their arguments and it just becomes blather.

Your, personal OP started as blather. Its so ******* retarded that even religious folks are disagreeing with it. Thats impressive!

Movie time.

Anyone who has a basic grasp of logic bores you, so twiddly ho and off you go into your delusional world where you make up your own superior version of morality to rule mankind by.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Who sets the rules?

We do. Duh. What a stupid question.

 

[G.T.]

False, Nature sets the rules and all of those societies you listed are no longer, as a result.

Good job, dumb dumb.

By the way, nobody "borrowed" morals from religion. Religion was written by US. By humans. Your sky fairy is as fake as a unicorn, and in his story he's more genocidal than hitler. A moral monster.

You are reeeeaaaalllllyyyy dumb.
Logic 101 and you can’t even understand what A, B, and C are.
No wonder you are on the socialist boat.

That wasnt an argument, corky. And Im not on any boat. Are you on medication? You outright admitted in your dopey OP that the only thing that holds you back from all the murderous, rapey evil you desire is an invisible sky pixie that murdered almost every living thing on earth via drowning.

Sick!

You’re a naive child to think the thoughts rattling around inside your skull are more moral than anyone else’s.

Bye bye weatherman. Religious folks bore me after a while...no backbone or spine or content in their arguments and it just becomes blather.

Your, personal OP started as blather. Its so ******* retarded that even religious folks are disagreeing with it. Thats impressive!

Movie time.

Anyone who has a basic grasp of logic bores you, so twiddly ho and off you go into your delusional world where you make up your own superior version of morality to rule mankind by.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

They couldnt logically defend that they were moral, but I bet they were at least mentally ill whereas YOU? Youre a guy with only the threat of sky daddy keeping your from being a baby killing, homicidal maniac.

Congratulations on being scum of the earth.

They couldnt logically defend that they were moral,

Defend to whom? Their morality is equal to yours. You’re a prima-donna thinking your version is superior. In fact, Darwinism says you are in the wrong.

Their morality is inferior to mine. You think that genocide is moral, congratulations psycho!

Says who? You?

Says Logic.


Also, your god drown more plants, animals and humans than any pol pot or hitler ever did. Congrats, scum of the earth...you worship an immoral monster from a fairy tale. Are you eleven?

Logic and the laws of nature says survival of the fittest. Don’t try to shove the morality you borrowed from religion onto what is natural.

What is the best thing about this thread is watching the most childish, most ignorant, and biggest **** poster in the thread lecture everyone else on morality.

Hint: That's you.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Defend to whom? Their morality is equal to yours. You’re a prima-donna thinking your version is superior. In fact, Darwinism says you are in the wrong.

Their morality is inferior to mine. You think that genocide is moral, congratulations psycho!

Says who? You?

Says Logic.


Also, your god drown more plants, animals and humans than any pol pot or hitler ever did. Congrats, scum of the earth...you worship an immoral monster from a fairy tale. Are you eleven?

Logic and the laws of nature says survival of the fittest. Don’t try to shove the morality you borrowed from religion onto what is natural.

What is the best thing about this thread is watching the most childish, most ignorant, and biggest **** poster in the thread lecture everyone else on morality.

Hint: That's you.

Says Dufus who thinks his thoughts are superior to everyone else’s.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Who sets the rules?

We do. Duh. What a stupid question.

We do. Duh. What a stupid question.

What an Einstein!

Who’s we? Pol Pot? ISIS? Evangelical Christians?

You morons can’t grasp your own insanity, it’s like trying to reason with a slug.

 

[emilynghiem]

Those are the most dangerous people. For it is they, whom are held back from such acts only by their belief in God. Take OP for example. He flat out said it. For that reason alone I’m glad many people believe in God...

Nah. I may be giving him a hard time over his childish, simpleton rhetoric, but these cafeteria christians generally get their morality from society, not from their silly book of iron aged fiction.

Dear Fort Fun Indiana
Have you considered that maybe nontheists were created for the purpose of "checking" faith based believers, and forcing them to reason out what they are saying? it's like forcing people to learn to read and write music literally, spell it all out, instead of winging it by ear. This is a good exercise, and teaches people to think through the REASONS behind the principles and morals.

On that note, Weatherman2020 what if God intends to create secular thinking atheists so that the same laws of nature created by God hav eto be explained and spelled out in rational concrete terms? What if this is the purpose?

The same laws operate, but force us to reach an understanding by conscious free will when we as believers have to explain and communicate with people who think in secular scientific terms

What's wrong with that?

 

[Vandalshandle]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Well, that being the case, it means that you would be a murderer if you were not a believer. Kind of a weak moral compass you have there Weather.

 

[emilynghiem]

Your logic is incoherent.

If morality is merely what humans have created as their best system to advance well-being, then there are objective right and wrong answers using cause and effect analysis to determine the best moral systems.

That's also indicative in reality, and not just philosophically - as we evolve, previously accepted morals have become barbaric, or extinct. That's due to a better cause/effect analysis, as it pertains to well-being.

It's pretty simple shit.

You'll never be the toughest guy on earth...therefore, it's probably not a good idea to let folks Murder, because it would damage your own well-being.

From there, it's a logical chain of "morals" that becomes self evident, in nature alone. No God needed but in FACT, the "God" of the bible is not trust-worthy, as he's ordered genocide, rape, baby killing etc. in one "covenant" and changed his mind in the next. His morals are subjective, not universal or unchanging...and they're also pretty abhorrent, at that.

Secular society has caused almost ALL religions to, COUGH, "reinterpret" their scriptures as we've evolved to thinking that their past interpretations were Barbaric. That's history, fingers in your ears.

There you go. Morality is OK when it’s defined by YOU. But YOU are just one voice of 3 BILLION voices.

Your inability to grasp the basic logic of who’s going to set rules for behavior is troubling for society. It’s why we are seeing a resurgence of advocates for communism and socialism. You can’t learn basic principles.

Let me help you.

Jeffry Dahmer is just as moral as Mother Teresa if there is no God. Fact. No dancing around it.

Morality is not some magical thing bestowed upon us. Its a mere name we have given to our ethical systems. The argument youre having with yourself presupposes that its magical. Its not. Its apparent survival ethics. Cause and effect. Easy concepts.

We are just animals and kill for pleasure as well as for food.

It’s only natural to shoot children.

According to you.

What I see is that humans form social communes and they've elevated us to the fittest species on earth.

Ah, humans form social communities for morality!

Like the community that took hundreds of thousands of babies by the feet and bashed their brains out against this tree.

View attachment 274410

Perfectly acceptable and unacceptable for you to push your twisted beliefs upon them.

Excuse me Weatherman2020
Which person or group's "twisted beliefs" are
you attributing this to?

You remind me of people who blame RELIGIONS for such cult-like killings as
part of a religious rite/sacrificial ceremony.

I've heard MORE people use the SAME argument you are using here to BLAME
ALL RELIGIONS, ALL CHRISTIANS ALL THEISTS for killings in the name of "God"

So I'll say the same thing to you that I say to
them: Just because SOME people or groups abuse their beliefs to kill, abuse, oppress or otherwise violate human rights of others, doesn't mean collectively blaming ALL groups:
* neither ALL RELIGIOUS groups including Christians
* nor ALL pagan or nonchristian groups including atheists or secular humanists or whatever GROUP you are blaming for "twisted beliefs"

IMPORTANT FACTOR TO NOTE:
Weatherman2020 what I find is the KEY FACTOR that distinguishes the true believers
is FORGIVENESS that includes and extends to ALL humanity by the grace of God through Christ.

Atheists can have this same forgiveness for all people, and I knew an Atheist who taught "free grace" as a free gift in life to all people for the asking.

That doesn't require believing in a personified God or Jesus to participate in global forgiveness for all humanity to establish truth peace and justice universally.

it requires accepting the gift of forgiveness so we can redeem, renew and restore ourselves, our relations, and society/humanity as a whole.

Where I would AGREE with you as a fellow Christian believer is that this gift of forgiveness IS the unique meaning and role/message of Christ Jesus as the MESSIAH or message embodied or incarnated in all humanity to realize true and lasting peace.

Where I seem to disagree with your way of saying it, although Christ Jesus plays this unique role reconciling man and God, or individual people among earthly society RECONCILED in perfect unity with collective laws and design of God throughout Nature, Life and the Universe, the EXPRESSION of Christ Jesus is NOT LIMITED to just how Christians teach using the Bible.

The SAME spirit of Christ Jesus is known as
* Restorative Justice
* Justice with Mercy
* Peace and Justice
* Equal Justice Under Law
* Salvation
(Where Mercy, Peace, and healing are represented by the Holy Spirit that accompanies
Jesus as Justice.)

So Weatherman2020 I agree with you in spirit,
but the communication and expression of this message is not limited to just Christian Biblical presentation. The message is UNIVERSAL and thus can be expressed in SECULAR TERMS and principles so nontheists such as Buddhist, Atheists/Agnostics, Secular Humanists and Naturalists can be included under NATURAL LAWS that Jesus also fulfills by God's authority as universal Truth and Justice.

There is nothing wrong with secular expression of these same principles as long as we are truly uniting in the same spirit of the laws and not "twisting it" or diluting/distorting or corrupting it to mean anything less that universally inclusive truth and justice that Christians call God and Jesus.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Have you considered that maybe nontheists were created for the purpose of "checking" faith based believers, and forcing them to reason out what they are saying?

No, but i am considering that now. And, frankly, that seems utterly absurd.

Have you considered that your faith causes you -- actually, DEMANDS of you -- that you attribute every single event, ever, to a "special plan"? And how a person with some perspective on faith might, purely out of reason (and not due to some "special, divine influence"), also find that,absurd?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is nothing wrong with secular expression of these same principles as long as we are truly uniting in the same spirit of the laws and not "twisting it" or diluting/distorting or corrupting it to mean anything less that universally inclusive truth and justice that Christians call God and Jesus.

So, there is nothong wrong with secular expression, as long as it aligns perfectly with ( I.e., is equivalent to) what christians deem to be absolute truth: their god.

Well, gee, thank you. As a token of my appreciation, i will allow you to pray to your gods, as long as your prayers perfectly align with what atheists deem to be the truth...that there are no gods.

Makes perfect sense, if you don't think about it.

 

[emilynghiem]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Well, that being the case, it means that you would be a murderer if you were not a believer. Kind of a weak moral compass you have there Weather.

Dear Vandalshandle and Fort Fun Indiana

I don't think that is what Weatherman2020 means at all. but thanks for offering that, which makes you think twice about what it means to say such a statement. If you don't mind, I'll share your retort with the two friends I've heard make similar arguments/statements as W2020.

What I think W means is it is inferior to "rely on man's govt laws" to establish right and wrong,
instead of believing that right and wrong exist as a matter of absolutes, independent of manmade laws and relative expression.

So W must think similar to what you said (where you compare DEPENDING on faith in a God based religion instead of relying on one's own choice to follow morals by reason and free will and personal responsibility not blind faith), while W is questioning how can you compare a system based on recognizing universal laws that are self-existent (called "God's laws" by nature) vs. man made systems that are limited, flawed and relative/biased and can't be as perfect and universal/absolute for all people because of the manmade limitations.

My argument isn't one side over the other.
I'm saying the SAME natural/universal laws can be agreed to as self-existent and not created by man, while allowing and recognizing DISTINCT EXPRESSIONS of these same laws -- where people who use Biblical/Religious representation for these laws, principles and process are recognized as one approach (with many variations thereunder like a branching tree), while nontheists who use IMPERSONAL/secular terms for the same laws/principles are recognized as a separate realm or approach.

And both work together to identify points and principles in agreement so solutions to problems can still be formulated and followed without conflict. Even if different groups express these universal laws using different language (religious or secular, political left or right).

Weatherman2020 isn't it stated in the Bible that Jesus governs TWO FOLDS of the one flock?
The secular gentiles under Natural laws
and the churched believers under Scriptural laws and authority.

doesn't Jesus as Divine Justice fulfill govern and shepherd BOTH natural laws of the secular fold and the scriptural laws of the churched tribes?

And when we unite in the spirit of Jesus as perfect Justice, and God as Universal Truth,
then BOTH lineages and laws are FULFILLED, reconciled and made whole/one in Christ Jesus for Justice and Peace to be established for all humanity.

Isn't that the basic message and process symbolized in the Bible, but spelled out in secular explanation for what it means?
while

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I don't think that is what Weatherman2020 means at all.

It is the literal equivalent of what he is saying. He comes to the conclusion that, if no god, then murder is not wrong. There is no getting around that.

Now, Can you or can you not see how a person mind find that utterly immoral and shameful?

 

[emilynghiem]

Have you considered that maybe nontheists were created for the purpose of "checking" faith based believers, and forcing them to reason out what they are saying?

No, but i am considering that now. And, frankly, that seems utterly absurd.

Have you considered that your faith causes you -- actually, DEMANDS of you -- that you attribute every single event, ever, to a "special plan"? And how a person with some perspective on faith might, purely out of reason (and not due to some "special, divine influence"), also find that,absurd?

Actually Fort Fun Indiana
I use that argument to offer to anti-nontheists
if God is supreme planner in charge of all things and how they are created and work together,
wouldn't atheists and other nontheists be created that way on purpose?

And yes, I do see life as like an ingeniously scripted orchestra or play, with infinite moving and interrelated parts. Perfectly designed to play out as it does.

There is room for some "improv" as with acting out a prewritten script. But even that is within bounds of what is to be expected.

If you study how improv actors rehearse some things in advance, where they have so much material they can "improv" from there, life is a lot like that.

The most amazing thing to me (and you can call this absurd or impossible if you want FFI), is how these CHARACTERS are designed to play off each other perfectly. That never ceases to amaze me, how perfectly we complement and challenge each other.

I heard ONE PERSON talk about Trump and Clinton that way, as a spiritual process where these FIGURES are used to play out a process, and trigger all the issues in the public consciousness to rise up and get confronted out in the open for our spiritual growth and development as a society.

I do see the life process and the political process in the media as a spiritual interplay going on with many levels at once.

Yes it is ridiculous, like a screwball tragedy and comedy rolled into one. If you didn't laugh you'd cry, if you didn't cry you'd laugh...

Humanity is designed to confront our own flaws by butting heads against each other. And oh the drama and comedy of errors it produces. Outrageous to say the least!

Ingeniously orchestrated to force us to confront our fears and opposite strengths and weaknesses so we grow as individuals and as a collective society to reach greater stages of maturity and social development.

 

[DOTR]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Correct. if there is no appeal from humans for morality then any human morality goes.