If There Is No God, Murder Is Not Wrong

[anynameyouwish]

To be clear I am agnostic, not atheist. That being said I don't need a God to tell me that taking life from another human unnecessarily is wrong. Morality being constructed by humans doesn't bother me. It doesn't make it less relevant or meaningful to me. What kind of person needs divine guidance to not be a murderer?

So as long as you think killing someone is necessary it's okay. I can dig that. That makes everyone other than you a target of you. It was necessary judge because he stole the shoes from my cardboard box house under the bridge. I had to stab them all, because it was necessary for my mental health! You're not right.

lots of conservatives think killing people is necessary.....

ever seen those conservative trespassing signs? (trespassers will be shot)

or the ones for thieves? (thieves will be shot or lynched)

conservative christian republican roy moore, promoted and endorsed by trump, believes gays should be rounded up and executed simply for being gay.

 

[anynameyouwish]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

There is no society anywhere that condones murder, but there are lots and lots of different "gods" out there. Some cultures barely have a god giving commands at all.
Whoever that Prager guy is, he's barking up the wrong tree.

"There is no society anywhere that condones murder,"

I believe this is MOSTLY true....

the problem is that societies will condone (so-called) HONOR KILLINGS....

killing women for being raped
killing gays for being gay

to you and me it is MURDER

to them it is justified by their religion


and we both know that weathermans religion is telling him to kill "his enemies"

but he'll never call it "murder".....

He'll call it "making America GREAT again!"

 

[Confounding]

To be clear I am agnostic, not atheist. That being said I don't need a God to tell me that taking life from another human unnecessarily is wrong. Morality being constructed by humans doesn't bother me. It doesn't make it less relevant or meaningful to me. What kind of person needs divine guidance to not be a murderer?

So as long as you think killing someone is necessary it's okay. I can dig that. That makes everyone other than you a target of you. It was necessary judge because he stole the shoes from my cardboard box house under the bridge. I had to stab them all, because it was necessary for my mental health! You're not right.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[captkaos]

To be clear I am agnostic, not atheist. That being said I don't need a God to tell me that taking life from another human unnecessarily is wrong. Morality being constructed by humans doesn't bother me. It doesn't make it less relevant or meaningful to me. What kind of person needs divine guidance to not be a murderer?

So as long as you think killing someone is necessary it's okay. I can dig that. That makes everyone other than you a target of you. It was necessary judge because he stole the shoes from my cardboard box house under the bridge. I had to stab them all, because it was necessary for my mental health! You're not right.

lots of conservatives think killing people is necessary.....

ever seen those conservative trespassing signs? (trespassers will be shot)

or the ones for thieves? (thieves will be shot or lynched)

conservative christian republican roy moore, promoted and endorsed by trump, believes gays should be rounded up and executed simply for being gay.

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

There is no society anywhere that condones murder, but there are lots and lots of different "gods" out there. Some cultures barely have a god giving commands at all.
Whoever that Prager guy is, he's barking up the wrong tree.

"There is no society anywhere that condones murder,"

I believe this is MOSTLY true....

the problem is that societies will condone (so-called) HONOR KILLINGS....

killing women for being raped
killing gays for being gay

to you and me it is MURDER

to them it is justified by their religion


and we both know that weathermans religion is telling him to kill "his enemies"

but he'll never call it "murder".....

He'll call it "making America GREAT again!"

Murder is okay in ISLAM ! Just sayin'

 

[Weatherman2020]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

I find it very revealing, and a little scary, that when conservatives contemplate the possibility that god does exist they IMMEDIATELY start thinking about killing people.......

The only think keeping conservatives from raping, stealing, beating and killing other people is their fear that god will punish them with eternal damnation.

Suddenly murder is not a topic the Left care about again.

I'm not "the left" but you are obviously deranged enough to believe I am a "leftist" simply because I am not a deranged conservative.

I care about "murder"

and l worry about your desire to MURDER gays and liberals and atheists and muslims and wiccans......

(now you say "but ABORTION....if you can abort babies then I can murder gays!")

to which I respond: If you believe murder is wrong (and abortion is murder) then why do you justify murdering gays just because liberals justify?

are you seriously saying that if liberals get to abort babies then you have the right to murder anyone you want to (to hell with god)?

and l worry about your desire to MURDER gays and liberals and atheists and muslims and wiccans......

You left out puppies from your hyperbole. Why did you leave out puppies?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Absolute nonsense. Every culture has had laws against harming others, whether murder, rape or just assault. There have been social classes that were exempt, but that is more about corruption than about morality.

I have had numerous people tell me that without God people would murder and rape as much as they wanted. I find that laughable. Right now I murder and rape as much as I want.

Many cultures have not. In just the past century godless Governments have slaughtered over 262 MILLION of their OWN CITIZENS.

And they did it because they FELT it was the right thing to do.

Except for China, they were all theist countries, even ours.

China, USSR, Cambodia, North Korea, Germany.

Germans are Christians, Russians are some kind of Orthodox with the big hats, The Khmer are Buddhists, and NK are too scared to say.

Not those in charge conducting the mass murders.

Even in the US, every mass murderer but one had not attended a church

 

[anynameyouwish]

To be clear I am agnostic, not atheist. That being said I don't need a God to tell me that taking life from another human unnecessarily is wrong. Morality being constructed by humans doesn't bother me. It doesn't make it less relevant or meaningful to me. What kind of person needs divine guidance to not be a murderer?

So as long as you think killing someone is necessary it's okay. I can dig that. That makes everyone other than you a target of you. It was necessary judge because he stole the shoes from my cardboard box house under the bridge. I had to stab them all, because it was necessary for my mental health! You're not right.

lots of conservatives think killing people is necessary.....

ever seen those conservative trespassing signs? (trespassers will be shot)

or the ones for thieves? (thieves will be shot or lynched)

conservative christian republican roy moore, promoted and endorsed by trump, believes gays should be rounded up and executed simply for being gay.

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

There is no society anywhere that condones murder, but there are lots and lots of different "gods" out there. Some cultures barely have a god giving commands at all.
Whoever that Prager guy is, he's barking up the wrong tree.

"There is no society anywhere that condones murder,"

I believe this is MOSTLY true....

the problem is that societies will condone (so-called) HONOR KILLINGS....

killing women for being raped
killing gays for being gay

to you and me it is MURDER

to them it is justified by their religion


and we both know that weathermans religion is telling him to kill "his enemies"

but he'll never call it "murder".....

He'll call it "making America GREAT again!"

Murder is okay in ISLAM ! Just sayin'

but they don't call it "murder"...they are just doing what their god commands them to do.

kinda like how christians claim that their god demands they "suffer not a gay or wiccan or liberal or muslim or atheist" to live.....

just saying

 

[OldLady]

To be clear I am agnostic, not atheist. That being said I don't need a God to tell me that taking life from another human unnecessarily is wrong. Morality being constructed by humans doesn't bother me. It doesn't make it less relevant or meaningful to me. What kind of person needs divine guidance to not be a murderer?

So as long as you think killing someone is necessary it's okay. I can dig that. That makes everyone other than you a target of you. It was necessary judge because he stole the shoes from my cardboard box house under the bridge. I had to stab them all, because it was necessary for my mental health! You're not right.

lots of conservatives think killing people is necessary.....

ever seen those conservative trespassing signs? (trespassers will be shot)

or the ones for thieves? (thieves will be shot or lynched)

conservative christian republican roy moore, promoted and endorsed by trump, believes gays should be rounded up and executed simply for being gay.

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

There is no society anywhere that condones murder, but there are lots and lots of different "gods" out there. Some cultures barely have a god giving commands at all.
Whoever that Prager guy is, he's barking up the wrong tree.

"There is no society anywhere that condones murder,"

I believe this is MOSTLY true....

the problem is that societies will condone (so-called) HONOR KILLINGS....

killing women for being raped
killing gays for being gay

to you and me it is MURDER

to them it is justified by their religion


and we both know that weathermans religion is telling him to kill "his enemies"

but he'll never call it "murder".....

He'll call it "making America GREAT again!"

Murder is okay in ISLAM ! Just sayin'

Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Iran.[2] Crimes punishable by death include murder; rape; child molestation; sodomy; drug trafficking; armed robbery; kidnapping; terrorism; burglary; pedophilia; homosexuality; incestuous relations; fornication;

Murder[edit]
Murder is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. If a murderer pays a family of the victim blood money, and the family approves of the choice, the murderer will not be executed. The criminal justice system waits until the family makes a decision on whether the family of the victim will accept blood money[22] or if the family of the victim will choose to have the murderer executed, or to completely forgive the perpetrator.

In that case, since we also have the death penalty, then the U.S. says "murder is okay?"

 

[alang1216]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Was this the same God that told the Israelites to kill every man, woman, and child in Jericho?

Yep. Kill is not the same as murder.

As every pro-lifer has told me, killing babies is murder. I guess they were wrong.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Thank you for the glimpse into your horrible morality. You only think murder is wrong because you are told to think it is wrong. That's special.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Thank you for the glimpse into your horrible morality. You only think murder is wrong because you are told to think it is wrong. That's special.

Your morality is equal to Charles Manson’s.

 

[diver52]

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

Murder is a legal term. It isn't wrong, it's illegal. I can think of several situations in which murder is moral, but that doesn't make it any less illegal. Your moral position is irrelevant.

 

[emilynghiem]

Weatherman2020
Where are people like you GETTING THIS FROM
that without belief in a PERSONIFIED GOD then anything goes?

Wouldn't the laws of SCIENCE and MATH work consistently
REGARDLESS if you believe "gravity" or "physics" was
"created by a God figure" or if you believe the world ALWAYS
existed without beginning or end, but is just SELF EXISTENT?

I don't get this.

What if GOD means the whole UNIVERSE and ALL EXISTENCE
ALWAYS EXISTED? What if it means the LAWS of LIFE
and NATURE are ETERNAL and will ALWAYS be.

Can't that occur with God not being limited to a personified figure
but God possibly being ALL creation/universe as self-existing and eternal?

So as long as people including Buddhists, Atheists and Naturalists
believe in the SAME UNIVERSAL LAWS governing humanity
and the world/universe (which Christians/Theists call God's laws),
why can't we all agree to follow the same laws
REGARDLESS if we describe the SOURCE of these laws
as a personified God figure or central source, or if
we attribute "God" to mean LIFE/CREATION itself.

Wouldn't the universal laws of nature and creation
still operate the same way? And why can't we agree on
those laws even if we frame God in different ways as the source
of naturally existing laws?

???

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

 

[MarathonMike]

It is IMO self evident that murder, rape, theft, physical abuse etc. are all violations of basic human rights not connected with the existence or absence of God or Religion. It is not the same as the animal kingdom where killing other species or robbing other nests is a part of basic survival.

 

[emilynghiem]

It is IMO self evident that murder, rape, theft, physical abuse etc. are all violations of basic human rights not connected with the existence or absence of God or Religion. It is not the same as the animal kingdom where killing other species or robbing other nests is a part of basic survival.

Dear MarathonMike
VERY well stated! Would you mind if I cite and credit you
for how you explained this, and use this statement to share with
a different friend who was arguing on his Facebook platform very similarly to W2020
that "people who don't BELIEVE IN God and Jesus as Christians do"
are unequal in moral authority. I believe you can invoke that authority
by AGREEMENT to enforce the same values, and it doesn't make people inferior.

The police officer or the military veteran can invoke and enforce greater authority
by law than the citizens they are defending, but that doesn't make the civilians inferior.

As long as the civilians OBEY the same laws and respect the officers who take on the
greater authority and responsibility for enforcement, we can STILL invoke and enforce the laws TOGETHER.

Thank you for how you stated this.

Weatherman2020 if I am to make sense of what you were arguing,
I would compare it to how Officers who take a sworn oath of duty to uphold laws
bear a greater MORE DIRECT responsibility for authority than regular civilians.

But that DOESN'T mean civilians are inferior morally, just because military officers and police
"lay down their lives" to defend citizens.

We play different roles in society. As long as we all agree to obey the same
principles and respect authority, then TOGETHER by uniform enforcement,
we can invoke equal justice and maintain law, order and peace equally for all people.

 

[MarathonMike]

It is IMO self evident that murder, rape, theft, physical abuse etc. are all violations of basic human rights not connected with the existence or absence of God or Religion. It is not the same as the animal kingdom where killing other species or robbing other nests is a part of basic survival.

Dear MarathonMike
VERY well stated! Would you mind if I cite and credit you
for how you explained this, and use this statement to share with
a different friend who was arguing on his Facebook platform very similarly to W2020
that "people who don't BELIEVE IN God and Jesus as Christians do"
are unequal in moral authority. I believe you can invoke that authority
by AGREEMENT to enforce the same values, and it doesn't make people inferior.

The police officer or the military veteran can invoke and enforce greater authority
by law than the citizens they are defending, but that doesn't make the civilians inferior.

As long as the civilians OBEY the same laws and respect the officers who take on the
greater authority and responsibility for enforcement, we can STILL invoke and enforce the laws TOGETHER.

Thank you for how you stated this.

Weatherman2020 if I am to make sense of what you were arguing,
I would compare it to how Officers who take a sworn oath of duty to uphold laws
bear a greater MORE DIRECT responsibility for authority than regular civilians.

But that DOESN'T mean civilians are inferior morally, just because military officers and police
"lay down their lives" to defend citizens.

We play different roles in society. As long as we all agree to obey the same
principles and respect authority, then TOGETHER by uniform enforcement,
we can invoke equal justice and maintain law, order and peace equally for all people.

Of course Emily, thanks for the acknowledgement.

 

[G.T.]

Religious people never - ever - win fuggin arguments.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Weatherman2020
Where are people like you GETTING THIS FROM
that without belief in a PERSONIFIED GOD then anything goes?

Wouldn't the laws of SCIENCE and MATH work consistently
REGARDLESS if you believe "gravity" or "physics" was
"created by a God figure" or if you believe the world ALWAYS
existed without beginning or end, but is just SELF EXISTENT?

I don't get this.

What if GOD means the whole UNIVERSE and ALL EXISTENCE
ALWAYS EXISTED? What if it means the LAWS of LIFE
and NATURE are ETERNAL and will ALWAYS be.

Can't that occur with God not being limited to a personified figure
but God possibly being ALL creation/universe as self-existing and eternal?

So as long as people including Buddhists, Atheists and Naturalists
believe in the SAME UNIVERSAL LAWS governing humanity
and the world/universe (which Christians/Theists call God's laws),
why can't we all agree to follow the same laws
REGARDLESS if we describe the SOURCE of these laws
as a personified God figure or central source, or if
we attribute "God" to mean LIFE/CREATION itself.

Wouldn't the universal laws of nature and creation
still operate the same way? And why can't we agree on
those laws even if we frame God in different ways as the source
of naturally existing laws?

???

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

If there is no higher authority, then everyone’s morality is equal. If you say government is the higher authority, I can point to dozens of governments where it was perfectly acceptable to drag you out of your bed, shoot you and rape your daughters.

If you can’t grasp that simple logic then you need to ponder it some more.

 

[G.T.]

Weatherman2020
Where are people like you GETTING THIS FROM
that without belief in a PERSONIFIED GOD then anything goes?

Wouldn't the laws of SCIENCE and MATH work consistently
REGARDLESS if you believe "gravity" or "physics" was
"created by a God figure" or if you believe the world ALWAYS
existed without beginning or end, but is just SELF EXISTENT?

I don't get this.

What if GOD means the whole UNIVERSE and ALL EXISTENCE
ALWAYS EXISTED? What if it means the LAWS of LIFE
and NATURE are ETERNAL and will ALWAYS be.

Can't that occur with God not being limited to a personified figure
but God possibly being ALL creation/universe as self-existing and eternal?

So as long as people including Buddhists, Atheists and Naturalists
believe in the SAME UNIVERSAL LAWS governing humanity
and the world/universe (which Christians/Theists call God's laws),
why can't we all agree to follow the same laws
REGARDLESS if we describe the SOURCE of these laws
as a personified God figure or central source, or if
we attribute "God" to mean LIFE/CREATION itself.

Wouldn't the universal laws of nature and creation
still operate the same way? And why can't we agree on
those laws even if we frame God in different ways as the source
of naturally existing laws?

???

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

If there is no higher authority, then everyone’s morality is equal. If you say government is the higher authority, I can point to dozens of governments where it was perfectly acceptable to drag you out of your bed, shoot you and rape your daughters.

If you can’t grasp that simple logic then you need to ponder it some more.

Your logic is incoherent.

If morality is merely what humans have created as their best system to advance well-being, then there are objective right and wrong answers using cause and effect analysis to determine the best moral systems.

That's also indicative in reality, and not just philosophically - as we evolve, previously accepted morals have become barbaric, or extinct. That's due to a better cause/effect analysis, as it pertains to well-being.

It's pretty simple shit.

You'll never be the toughest guy on earth...therefore, it's probably not a good idea to let folks Murder, because it would damage your own well-being.

From there, it's a logical chain of "morals" that becomes self evident, in nature alone. No God needed but in FACT, the "God" of the bible is not trust-worthy, as he's ordered genocide, rape, baby killing etc. in one "covenant" and changed his mind in the next. His morals are subjective, not universal or unchanging...and they're also pretty abhorrent, at that.

Secular society has caused almost ALL religions to, COUGH, "reinterpret" their scriptures as we've evolved to thinking that their past interpretations were Barbaric. That's history, fingers in your ears.

 

[emilynghiem]

Weatherman2020
Where are people like you GETTING THIS FROM
that without belief in a PERSONIFIED GOD then anything goes?

Wouldn't the laws of SCIENCE and MATH work consistently
REGARDLESS if you believe "gravity" or "physics" was
"created by a God figure" or if you believe the world ALWAYS
existed without beginning or end, but is just SELF EXISTENT?

I don't get this.

What if GOD means the whole UNIVERSE and ALL EXISTENCE
ALWAYS EXISTED? What if it means the LAWS of LIFE
and NATURE are ETERNAL and will ALWAYS be.

Can't that occur with God not being limited to a personified figure
but God possibly being ALL creation/universe as self-existing and eternal?

So as long as people including Buddhists, Atheists and Naturalists
believe in the SAME UNIVERSAL LAWS governing humanity
and the world/universe (which Christians/Theists call God's laws),
why can't we all agree to follow the same laws
REGARDLESS if we describe the SOURCE of these laws
as a personified God figure or central source, or if
we attribute "God" to mean LIFE/CREATION itself.

Wouldn't the universal laws of nature and creation
still operate the same way? And why can't we agree on
those laws even if we frame God in different ways as the source
of naturally existing laws?

???

If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.

If there is no higher authority, then everyone’s morality is equal. If you say government is the higher authority, I can point to dozens of governments where it was perfectly acceptable to drag you out of your bed, shoot you and rape your daughters.

If you can’t grasp that simple logic then you need to ponder it some more.

Hi Weatherman2020
There can STILL be an agreed "higher authority" above man made govt,
but that doesn't mean everyone relates to this 'higher authority' as a
PERSONIFIED FIGURE.

We can still agree on the KINGDOM of God
or UNIVERSAL LAWS of God/Nature
and never agree on the full extent of what God means.

Do you understand that the CONTEXT AROUND GOD
can still unite people across theist and nontheist definitions?


Examples:
1. we can agree that since man made truth and govt is RELATIVE,
then to get to the UNIVERSAL ABSOLUTES, we agree to focus on
where people AGREE ON TRUTH. So even if secular people don't
see this truth as coming from a "personal God" as Christians do,
whatever truth we get from this God, we can still agree to
RESPECT each other's truth in forming a CONSENSUS.

We can do this without agreeing on the source of the truths uniting together.

For example, we can agree on laws against murder,
while some people see this in terms of the Bible coming from God,
others see this as Buddhist teachings not to kill or cause suffering to living beings,
secular humanists agree not to abuse other human beings,
and Constitutionalists agree not to violate the consent of the governed
and the right to life liberty property and pursuit of happiness.

We can all agree on the laws even if we frame the source of
the laws as either personal or impersonal.

Like a person who sees the world in black and white, not color,
we can still agree that a red light means STOP and a green light means GO.
The color blind people may not see the colors, but they see the positions
of the lights or see the words STOP and GO. we don't argue over expression
as long as we agree on the rules and how to follow them.

2. We can agree that Equal JUSTICE under law
and Peace and JUSTICE for ALL is the same thing
as JESUS coming for ALL PEOPLE. We are uniting
to establish JUSTICE, by any other name, by Jesus as Lord
or Justice under Law.

Jesus/Justice does not need to be personified as a figure
to agree that Justice should be established and enforced for all people.

Weatherman2020 no need to worry that anyone can impose
"man made govt" in place of God's justice. That isn't enough to unite all people,
ONLY PERFECT UNIVERSAL JUSTICE can bring PEACE to all humanity.

So by the very structure and set up,
in order for ALL people to unite it has to be from GOD not man.

Don't worry about that. only God's laws and justice
are so perfect and universal that all people will unite and reconcile.

So it has to be through Jesus to be this perfect Justice.
Manmade systems will not work, as you say.

But people who are secular can still call Jesus as JUSTICE
and get to the same relationship all the same as calling this Jesus.