If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[Syphon]

The CBO only gives the numbers on the information given. Seems other things are sneaking in and also, CLASS was going to be a major source of funding, and it's been eliminated. But...I really don't think that is of any concern to socialists.

Actually, funding is a MAJOR concern for Socialists, and you'd know that if you had been paying attention. After all, why tax the rich unless you need funding?

Obviously, the NeoCons think missles grow free in the wild on trees picked by non union minimum wage workers, hence their inability to actually fund the government.

Socialists think that if it's not a union job, it's a minimum wage job.

what socialist country has unions?

 

[Meister]

Actually, funding is a MAJOR concern for Socialists, and you'd know that if you had been paying attention. After all, why tax the rich unless you need funding?

Obviously, the NeoCons think missles grow free in the wild on trees picked by non union minimum wage workers, hence their inability to actually fund the government.

Socialists think that if it's not a union job, it's a minimum wage job.

what socialist country has unions?

without looking? Spain for one.

 

[Vidi]

The CBO only gives the numbers on the information given. Seems other things are sneaking in and also, CLASS was going to be a major source of funding, and it's been eliminated. But...I really don't think that is of any concern to socialists.

Actually, funding is a MAJOR concern for Socialists, and you'd know that if you had been paying attention. After all, why tax the rich unless you need funding?

Obviously, the NeoCons think missles grow free in the wild on trees picked by non union minimum wage workers, hence their inability to actually fund the government.

Socialists think that if it's not a union job, it's a minimum wage job.

Hehe funny but untrue.

As someone who borders fairly close to socialist in my views, I'm grateful for the well paying non union job I have.

But it wouldn't pay as well as it does had Unions not existed.

And believe it or not, you like unions too. You're a part of the greatest one in all of history. The United States.

 

[Meister]

Actually, funding is a MAJOR concern for Socialists, and you'd know that if you had been paying attention. After all, why tax the rich unless you need funding?

Obviously, the NeoCons think missles grow free in the wild on trees picked by non union minimum wage workers, hence their inability to actually fund the government.

Socialists think that if it's not a union job, it's a minimum wage job.

Hehe funny but untrue.

As someone who borders fairly close to socialist in my views, I'm grateful for the well paying non union job I have.

But it wouldn't pay as well as it does had Unions not existed.

And believe it or not, you like unions too. You're a part of the greatest one in all of history. The United States.

Let's just say I like A union, with what your posts reflects.

 

[Syphon]

Socialists think that if it's not a union job, it's a minimum wage job.

what socialist country has unions?

without looking? Spain for one.

Spain is a parliamentary monarchy not a socialist country. nice fail...

try again

Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The political form of government of Spain is a parliamentary monarchy,[1] that is, a social representative, democratic, constitutional monarchy in which the Monarch is the head of state and the Prime Minister — whose official title is "president of the Government" — is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by "The Government", which is integrated by the prime minister, the deputy prime ministers, and other ministers, which collectively form the Council of Ministers. Legislative power is vested in the Cortes Generales (General Courts), a bicameral parliament constituted by the Congress of Deputies and the Senate. The judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature, administering justice on behalf of the King by several judges and magistrates. The Supreme Court of Spain is the highest court in the nation, with jurisdiction in all Spanish territories, superior to all in all affairs, except in constitutional matters, which are competence of the Constitutional Court.

 

[Oddball]

First of all, Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine, so there's ONE country with socialized medicine moving back toward a more free system....Therefore your claim that no countries are making such a move is false on its face.

I' could post numerous links, viz. the outright lie of the inflated numbers of uninsured, all with legitimate citations, and I'll wager that you'll reject them all...Here are a few from just a cursory Google search...

The American Spectator : The Myth of the 46 Million

The myth of the uninsured - Raleigh Libertarian | Examiner.com

US Medicare and the Myth of "the 46 Million*Uninsured" - Bill's Commentary - William Gairdner, freethinker

Can you give a link to "Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?pagewanted=all
Timely Medical Services
Find Private Clinics in Canada for Walk in Clinics in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver
MMS: Error
Canada Sees Boom In Private Health Care Business | Fox News
Private Insurance In Canada | In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option - Los Angeles Times
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007
CIMCA | ACMIC
http://www.windsorstar.com/Private+...with+doctors+Windsor+Essex/4403075/story.html
Canadian Doctors for Medicare | Private clinics continue explosive growth
Private & Executive Healthcare Clinic | Medcan Clinic Toronto
Private health clinics remain unregulated in most of Canada
The rise of private care in Canada | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features

 

[Meister]

what socialist country has unions?

without looking? Spain for one.

Spain is a parliamentary monarchy not a socialist country. nice fail...

try again

Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The political form of government of Spain is a parliamentary monarchy,[1] that is, a social representative, democratic, constitutional monarchy in which the Monarch is the head of state and the Prime Minister — whose official title is "president of the Government" — is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by "The Government", which is integrated by the prime minister, the deputy prime ministers, and other ministers, which collectively form the Council of Ministers. Legislative power is vested in the Cortes Generales (General Courts), a bicameral parliament constituted by the Congress of Deputies and the Senate. The judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature, administering justice on behalf of the King by several judges and magistrates. The Supreme Court of Spain is the highest court in the nation, with jurisdiction in all Spanish territories, superior to all in all affairs, except in constitutional matters, which are competence of the Constitutional Court.

They were until the last election.....So...no not exactly a fail. The party failed because it just wasn't working over there. Go figure.....


The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido Socialista Obrero Español [parˈtiðo soθjaˈlista oˈβrero espaˈɲol] listen (help·info); PSOE [peˈsoe] listen (help·info) ) is a social-democratic[1] political party in Spain. Its political position is Centre-left. The PSOE is the former ruling party of Spain, until beaten in the elections of November 2011 and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833.[citation needed]
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Syphon]

without looking? Spain for one.

Spain is a parliamentary monarchy not a socialist country. nice fail...

try again

Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The political form of government of Spain is a parliamentary monarchy,[1] that is, a social representative, democratic, constitutional monarchy in which the Monarch is the head of state and the Prime Minister — whose official title is "president of the Government" — is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by "The Government", which is integrated by the prime minister, the deputy prime ministers, and other ministers, which collectively form the Council of Ministers. Legislative power is vested in the Cortes Generales (General Courts), a bicameral parliament constituted by the Congress of Deputies and the Senate. The judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature, administering justice on behalf of the King by several judges and magistrates. The Supreme Court of Spain is the highest court in the nation, with jurisdiction in all Spanish territories, superior to all in all affairs, except in constitutional matters, which are competence of the Constitutional Court.

They were until the last election.....So...no not exactly a fail. The party failed because it just wasn't working over there. Go figure.....


The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido Socialista Obrero Español [parˈtiðo soθjaˈlista oˈβrero espaˈɲol] listen (help·info); PSOE [peˈsoe] listen (help·info) ) is a social-democratic[1] political party in Spain. Its political position is Centre-left. The PSOE is the former ruling party of Spain, until beaten in the elections of November 2011 and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833.[citation needed]
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

just because a socialist party got elected to power, doesnt make the country a socialist nation. so yes its still a fail.

your own post calls them center-left. Clinton was a center left president, and was nowhere near a socialist.

 

[Meister]

Spain is a parliamentary monarchy not a socialist country. nice fail...

try again

Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The political form of government of Spain is a parliamentary monarchy,[1] that is, a social representative, democratic, constitutional monarchy in which the Monarch is the head of state and the Prime Minister — whose official title is "president of the Government" — is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by "The Government", which is integrated by the prime minister, the deputy prime ministers, and other ministers, which collectively form the Council of Ministers. Legislative power is vested in the Cortes Generales (General Courts), a bicameral parliament constituted by the Congress of Deputies and the Senate. The judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature, administering justice on behalf of the King by several judges and magistrates. The Supreme Court of Spain is the highest court in the nation, with jurisdiction in all Spanish territories, superior to all in all affairs, except in constitutional matters, which are competence of the Constitutional Court.

They were until the last election.....So...no not exactly a fail. The party failed because it just wasn't working over there. Go figure.....


The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido Socialista Obrero Español [parˈtiðo soθjaˈlista oˈβrero espaˈɲol] listen (help·info); PSOE [peˈsoe] listen (help·info) ) is a social-democratic[1] political party in Spain. Its political position is Centre-left. The PSOE is the former ruling party of Spain, until beaten in the elections of November 2011 and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833.[citation needed]
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

just because a socialist party got elected to power, doesnt make the country a socialist nation. so yes its still a fail.

your own post calls them center-left. Clinton was a center left president, and was nowhere near a socialist.

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

 

[Syphon]

They were until the last election.....So...no not exactly a fail. The party failed because it just wasn't working over there. Go figure.....


The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido Socialista Obrero Español [parˈtiðo soθjaˈlista oˈβrero espaˈɲol] listen (help·info); PSOE [peˈsoe] listen (help·info) ) is a social-democratic[1] political party in Spain. Its political position is Centre-left. The PSOE is the former ruling party of Spain, until beaten in the elections of November 2011 and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833.[citation needed]
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

just because a socialist party got elected to power, doesnt make the country a socialist nation. so yes its still a fail.

your own post calls them center-left. Clinton was a center left president, and was nowhere near a socialist.

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

 

[Oddball]

just because a socialist party got elected to power, doesnt make the country a socialist nation. so yes its still a fail.

your own post calls them center-left. Clinton was a center left president, and was nowhere near a socialist.

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

So far, none of your posts, on any topic, have passed the bullshit test....

 

[Syphon]

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

So far, none of your posts, on any topic, have passed the bullshit test....

this guy............. bwaahahahahaha

stupid post is.... well stupid....

come back and join the adults when you can actually add something to the conversation

heres a brilliant example of your typical post

If anything here is being reinforced, it's how socialist moonbat nut sacks like you are so quick to pat yourselves on the back for being the smartest peter puffers in the room.

 

[Dr Grump]

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

So far, none of your posts, on any topic, have passed the bullshit test....

this guy............. bwaahahahahaha

stupid post is.... well stupid....

come back and join the adults when you can actually add something to the conversation

Don't mind Odd...he's one of the board's trolls....

 

[Meister]

just because a socialist party got elected to power, doesnt make the country a socialist nation. so yes its still a fail.

your own post calls them center-left. Clinton was a center left president, and was nowhere near a socialist.

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

it sure does pass the redistribution of wealth litmus test...what a better way than to tax the hell out of the citizens and redistribute the funds.
While your at it, check out the state owned businesses in Spain. You can label Spain however you want...how did obama say it? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
So please try not to be so condescending

 

[Syphon]

Look at the tax structure of Spain and get back to me, okay?

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

it sure does pass the redistribution of wealth litmus test...what a better way than to tax the hell out of the citizens and redistribute the funds.
While your at it, check out the state owned businesses in Spain. You can label Spain however you want...how did obama say it? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
So please try not to be so condescending

redistribution of wealth goes both ways. the bush tax cuts took from the middle class and gave to the wealthy.

Why tax cuts for the rich make no sense - CNN

The Bush Tax Cuts Disproportionately Benefitted the Wealthy | Economic Policy Institute

but defining a country's system of government by their tax code to say they are socialist is a failed argument.

 

[Vidi]

so you define a country's governmental system based on its tax code????? sorry that post doesnt pass the bullshit test..

it sure does pass the redistribution of wealth litmus test...what a better way than to tax the hell out of the citizens and redistribute the funds.
While your at it, check out the state owned businesses in Spain. You can label Spain however you want...how did obama say it? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
So please try not to be so condescending

redistribution of wealth goes both ways. the bush tax cuts took from the middle class and gave to the wealthy.

Why tax cuts for the rich make no sense - CNN

The Bush Tax Cuts Disproportionately Benefitted the Wealthy | Economic Policy Institute

but defining a country's system of government by their tax code to say they are socialist is a failed argument.

I would say

Defining a country's system of government ONLY by their tax code etc etc

It's definitely a factor

 

[Oddball]

So far, none of your posts, on any topic, have passed the bullshit test....

this guy............. bwaahahahahaha

stupid post is.... well stupid....

come back and join the adults when you can actually add something to the conversation

Don't mind Odd...he's one of the board's trolls....

Yeah...It's not like I've laid down one of the two substantive ***** slappings on this thread (Meister being the other), or anything like that.

 

[taichiliberal]

Frazzled gear,

Sorry but while you certainly seem to have a lot to say, your entire argument is based on the false premise that it's private funds paying for those American medical advances. That is simply not the case.

NIH is the largest single funder of basic medical research in the United States; the research it supports provides the foundation of knowledge that drives innovation and improves health.

NIH funds help lead to medical advances - JSOnline

NIH is the largest source of funding for medical research in the world, creating hundreds of thousands of high-quality jobs by funding thousands of scientists in universities and research institutions in every state across America and around the globe.

NIH - About NIH

They determined that, although the research and development of a subset of pharmaceutical drugs that qualify for the FDA's "priority review" process receives direct government money, the research and development of most drugs is mostly funded by the private sector. The basic biomedical research behind the development of these drugs, however, is largely supported by public funding, especially through the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Taxpayers Indirectly Help Develop Most New Drugs

What this means is:

Taxpayer money finds the breakthroughs, then the private sector changes around a molecule or two, adds a new name and patents it.

So if it's taxpayers dollars that is funding the research, therefore, it's technically "socialism" that is driving those medical advances

ETA:

When Obama said he wanted to change our health system to keep people healthy, he meant that it's cheaper and more efficient to treat people with preventative medicine rather than corrective medicine.

Keeping someone from getting sick is always cheaper than treating them once they're sick. Therefore, we need a system that helps keep people healthy.

 

[taichiliberal]

Not even a good try at diverting from the questions...

How many of the uninsured qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, but haven't applied for it?

How many of the uninsured are in America illegally?

How many of the uninsured are well off enough to pay for their medical costs out-of-pocket?

There was no "diversion", YOU just don't like the FACTS, so now you try to distort the information:

1) Are you implying that there are hoards of people who qualify for Medicare/Medicaid but haven't applied? Where's your proof of such an allegation? And are you aware of the qualifications for application, and how those qualifications are measured in actual applications and acceptances?

2) WTF does undocumented and illegal aliens have to do with health insurance with regards to those who are legal/born citizens who are WORKING but CANNOT afford decent healthcare?

3) Are you implying that there are hoards of people who can pay for their own healthcare but "game" the system? Where's your proof of such an allegation?

I know the facts and you are a liar.

1) I'm not only implying it, it's a fact.

PROVE IT, bunky! You're mind fart does not automatically equate to facts based in reality. If you can't prove it, don't waste everyone time...just go blow that smoke up some other neocon/teabagger's ass who'll appreciate it.

2) People here illegally and not citizens of this country are being used by useful idiots like you to inflate the number of "uninsured"....Why not just extend Obolshevikcare to all of Mexico while we're at it?

Another claim that YOU have yet to prove...and you compound it to the previous incredible leap from the REALITY of American middle class and working class citizens who CANNOT afford health care. Come, come you Odd little person, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

3) I'm implying nothing...There are millions of people who can afford to pay for their medical care out of pocket and do so....That's not gaming the system in any way.

What you state here is a moot point that no one disputed.
The chronology of the posts shows YOU ORIGINALLY stating that those people who can pay are NOT doing so, and therefore are "CHEATING" the system. I asked you to provide proof of this, and it's obvious that you can't.

The "X million of uninsured" number has been jimmied and inflated for no less than 20 years now.

You keep stating that but yet you can't prove it beyond your worthless opinion. The chronology of the post makes YOU out to be a LIAR, Oddball. Carry on.

 

[taichiliberal]

I know the facts and you are a liar.

1) I'm not only implying it, it's a fact.

2) People here illegally and not citizens of this country are being used by useful idiots like you to inflate the number of "uninsured"....Why not just extend Obolshevikcare to all of Mexico while we're at it?

3) I'm implying nothing...There are millions of people who can afford to pay for their medical care out of pocket and do so....That's not gaming the system in any way.

The "X million of uninsured" number has been jimmied and inflated for no less than 20 years now.

If it's a fact, then you should be able to prove it.

But you don't. For ANY of it.
Ever.

"....then you should be able to prove it."

Actually, that is not the case.
Attention to the posts such as yours will yield the following conclusion to those of us who apply a scholarly approach:

1. Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince individuals such as you....

2. Inveterate Liberals have long ago achieved, even perfected, the willing suspension of disbelief, and the refusal to use experience and judgment....

3. It is my hope that those on my side of the argument will operate on the basis of "triage," consigning you the the category of those who cannot be saved....and will concentrate on those whose minds have not been warped, and wills sapped.

a. Present the facts, make the righteous argument. Hope for the best.

either you slept through that class in High School regarding argumentation and debate, or you are totally full of it!


Oddball made several statements as if they are fact. I asked him to provide proof BEYOND HIS OPINION that supports his statements. To date, neither him (or YOU) can meet that simple burden of proof.

That means Oddball and you lose the argument.....just ask any high school or college debate team instructor.

Now grow the **** up and deal with reality, will ya please?