Four hard truths of health care reform

[Quantum Windbag]

1. Some people won't get to keep the coverage they like.
2. Costs aren't going to go down.
3. It's just a guess that the law can pay for itself.
4. The more they know the more they'll like it isn't happening.

4 hard truths of health care reform - POLITICO.com Print View


Life just sucks for anyone that supports Obamacare.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Four hard truths about ObamaCare:

1. It's unConstitutional.
2. Nobody in their right minds wants it.
3. It was forced on the American public because of the shady way it was passed in Congress.
4. Even if fully implemented, there will still be uninsured people.

 

[Polk]

This article is nonsense.

1. People leaving their existing policies because they can get better coverage elsewhere is a negative?
2. No one ever claimed the bill was decrease health care costs. The argument was always about decreasing the rate of growth. Since the law hasn't taken effect yet, we can't answer this question one way or the other, but results from individual states (Mass.) and countries that have undertaken similar reforms (Switzerland) look promising.
3. That's true, but meaningless. The entire budget is guess-work.
4. That's true, but why should anyone care? Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it bad policy, any more than being popular would make something good policy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

1. Some people won't get to keep the coverage they like.
2. Costs aren't going to go down.
3. It's just a guess that the law can pay for itself.
4. The more they know the more they'll like it isn't happening.

4 hard truths of health care reform - POLITICO.com Print View


Life just sucks for anyone that supports Obamacare.

All true, plus obama flat out lied when he promised this

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRcLMScEqo]Obama You can keep your doctor - YouTube[/ame]

if you want more details why i say this just ask, i have a whole thread

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This article is nonsense.

1. People leaving their existing policies because they can get better coverage elsewhere is a negative?
2. No one ever claimed the bill was decrease health care costs. The argument was always about decreasing the rate of growth. Since the law hasn't taken effect yet, we can't answer this question one way or the other, but results from individual states (Mass.) and countries that have undertaken similar reforms (Switzerland) look promising.
3. That's true, but meaningless. The entire budget is guess-work.
4. That's true, but why should anyone care? Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it bad policy, any more than being popular would make something good policy.

like i said in the other thread

You lied to me Obama, you just flat out lied.

Because of Obamacare my employer has to put us into a different insurance situation in order to be in compliance with the law and cover everyone, even those WHO DON'T WANT TO BUY IT (yeah 2 of my co workers are pissed off, they don't want health insurance because they are young and dumb enough to think they can't get sick).

So the new insurance is not accepted by my doctor and I can no longer keep my plan, I have to switch.....Obama what did you promise me?

Obama You can keep your doctor - YouTube

LIE

President Obama says If you like your Doctor You can Keep Your Doctor - YouTube

MORE LIES

We need simple single payor insurance.

If we all had the same ins doctors would have to accept the insurance.

I dislike monopolies, it's bad for consumers.

You lied to me Obama, you just flat out lied.

Because of Obamacare my employer has to put us into a different insurance situation in order to be in compliance with the law and cover everyone, even those WHO DON'T WANT TO BUY IT (yeah 2 of my co workers are pissed off, they don't want health insurance because they are young and dumb enough to think they can't get sick).

So the new insurance is not accepted by my doctor and I can no longer keep my plan, I have to switch.....Obama what did you promise me?

Obama You can keep your doctor - YouTube

LIE

President Obama says If you like your Doctor You can Keep Your Doctor - YouTube

MORE LIES

When did Obama promise your doctor would accept all insurance plans?
When did Obama promise that employers would not be allowed to switch insurance carriers?

Before Obama, if an employer chose to switch insurance carriers, did people get to always go to the same doctors?

You're free to pay the doctor of your choosing for the services you want from him. Why don't you stop your whining, take some personal responsibility in your life, and either pay the doctor out of your pocket or find a new job that has the insurance you want.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRcLMScEqo]Obama You can keep your doctor - YouTube[/ame]

He promised that I would not have to switch my plan, I can not keep my current plan. It is a "small business group" plan and you have to be a business to be part of it. However that small business group allows employers to allow some employees to not have coverage if they elect to do so and that practice is no longer allowed under obamacare.

How is that not a lie to tell me that I can keep my plan when, in order to comply with the law, I can not.

 

[Polk]

That's an absurd argument, as your employer would have made the same decision even if the ACA had never been passed.

 

[editec]

The irony is that OBAMA CARE is basically the CATO institute's former concept of a good plan.

Had a Republican POTUS proposed this plan the detractors of it would be supporting it and the supporters of it would be its detractors.

How anybody can imagine that forcing people to BUY a product is anything but FACISM I serious don't know.

Lets review what FASCISM is again, shall we?

Facism is the form of government which is lead by and for the primary benefit of corporations.

If ObamaCare doesn't fit that facsistic model, I don't know what does

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's an absurd argument, as your employer would have made the same decision even if the ACA had never been passed.

if the act wasn't passed he would have kept us insured the way he did before.

If it is absurd then explain why he would have done this anyway....go ahead.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The irony is that OBAMA CARE is basically the CATO institute's former concept of a good plan.

Had a Republican POTUS proposed this plan the detractors of it would be supporting it and the supporters of it would be its detractors.

How anybody can imagine that forcing people to BUY a product is anything but FACISM I serious don't know.

Lets review what FASCISM is again, shall we?

Facism is the form of government which is lead by and for the primary benefit of corporations.

If ObamaCare doesn't fit that facsistic model, I don't know what does

How is it Ironic to you that both republicans and democrats have no issue violating the constitution for their own power and political means?

Have you ever heard of the patriot act?

 

[Full-Auto]

This article is nonsense.

1. People leaving their existing policies because they can get better coverage elsewhere is a negative?
2. No one ever claimed the bill was decrease health care costs. The argument was always about decreasing the rate of growth. Since the law hasn't taken effect yet, we can't answer this question one way or the other, but results from individual states (Mass.) and countries that have undertaken similar reforms (Switzerland) look promising.
3. That's true, but meaningless. The entire budget is guess-work.
4. That's true, but why should anyone care? Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it bad policy, any more than being popular would make something good policy.

Do you tire of being wrong? Are you a paid shill perhaps?


PolitiFact | Obama said health care reform will reduce the cost of health care

 

[Polk]

That's an absurd argument, as your employer would have made the same decision even if the ACA had never been passed.

if the act wasn't passed he would have kept us insured the way he did before.

If it is absurd then explain why he would have done this anyway....go ahead.

Existing policies are grandfathered it. Since I'm not your employer, I can't answer what moved them to change your coverage.

 

[Polk]

This article is nonsense.

1. People leaving their existing policies because they can get better coverage elsewhere is a negative?
2. No one ever claimed the bill was decrease health care costs. The argument was always about decreasing the rate of growth. Since the law hasn't taken effect yet, we can't answer this question one way or the other, but results from individual states (Mass.) and countries that have undertaken similar reforms (Switzerland) look promising.
3. That's true, but meaningless. The entire budget is guess-work.
4. That's true, but why should anyone care? Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it bad policy, any more than being popular would make something good policy.

Do you tire of being wrong? Are you a paid shill perhaps?


PolitiFact | Obama said health care reform will reduce the cost of health care

I'm not wrong. It's not my fault you can't read.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

He's referring to costs relative to the projected rate of increase, not in absolute terms.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's an absurd argument, as your employer would have made the same decision even if the ACA had never been passed.

if the act wasn't passed he would have kept us insured the way he did before.

If it is absurd then explain why he would have done this anyway....go ahead.

Existing policies are grandfathered it. Since I'm not your employer, I can't answer what moved them to change your coverage.

The law changed. He has to comply with the new federal law under obamacare.

In order to do so we could not keep our current plan, which I liked and was perfect for me, because it does not qualify under the affordable care act (obamacare).

That is why he changed our coverage, to get into compliance with the new obamacare laws before he has to face fines for not being in compliance.

He would not have done this otherwise, he is not happy, i am not happy, the 2 employees who DO NOT want to buy health insurance are not happy, and my family isn't happy as the new expense is going to cut right into my profit sharing which is part of my income.

 

[Polk]

Except that existing plans are grandfathered in. He wouldn't have faced a fine because the policy doesn't fall under the requirements.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Except that existing plans are grandfathered in. He wouldn't have faced a fine because the policy doesn't fall under the requirements.

Not true, our existing small business group plan allowed for employess to refuse to be covered as long as they signed a waiver.

This plan is no longer allowed under obamacare and there is no "grandfather" clause that would allow my employer to continue with the same exact small business group plan and coverage situation we have had for years.

 

[Polk]

Except that existing plans are grandfathered in. He wouldn't have faced a fine because the policy doesn't fall under the requirements.

Not true, our existing small business group plan allowed for employess to refuse to be covered as long as they signed a waiver.

This plan is no longer allowed under obamacare and there is no "grandfather" clause that would allow my employer to continue with the same exact small business group plan and coverage situation we have had for years.

Banyan News: Health Care Reform Bulletin Grandfather Clause

 

[Full-Auto]

This article is nonsense.

1. People leaving their existing policies because they can get better coverage elsewhere is a negative?
2. No one ever claimed the bill was decrease health care costs. The argument was always about decreasing the rate of growth. Since the law hasn't taken effect yet, we can't answer this question one way or the other, but results from individual states (Mass.) and countries that have undertaken similar reforms (Switzerland) look promising.
3. That's true, but meaningless. The entire budget is guess-work.
4. That's true, but why should anyone care? Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it bad policy, any more than being popular would make something good policy.

Do you tire of being wrong? Are you a paid shill perhaps?


PolitiFact | Obama said health care reform will reduce the cost of health care

I'm not wrong. It's not my fault you can't read.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

He's referring to costs relative to the projected rate of increase, not in absolute terms.

Obamas quote is at the top of the link, thanks for playing

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Except that existing plans are grandfathered in. He wouldn't have faced a fine because the policy doesn't fall under the requirements.

Not true, our existing small business group plan allowed for employess to refuse to be covered as long as they signed a waiver.

This plan is no longer allowed under obamacare and there is no "grandfather" clause that would allow my employer to continue with the same exact small business group plan and coverage situation we have had for years.

Banyan News: Health Care Reform Bulletin Grandfather Clause

That has now expired since 2010, which is why I didn't have to change until now.

What you linked actually backs up what I was saying: (BTW I'm not union and we didn't collectively bargain for our insurance here)

Collectively bargained multi-employer and single employer plans in effect on March 23, 2010 are not subject to the Reform Act rules until the date on which the last of the collective bargaining agreements relating to the coverage terminates. At that time, a collectively bargained plan is then subject to health care reform rules and, assuming it remains grandfathered (based on the rules then in effect), it would have to comply with the requirements for grandfathered plans. The Reform Act specifically provides, however, that a collectively bargained plan is permitted to be amended early for some or all of the Reform Act’s rules. This voluntary amendment will not be treated as a termination of the collective bargaining agreement which might otherwise subject the plan to an earlier Reform Act compliance deadline.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Some people won't get to keep the coverage they like.

If by like you meaning being discriminated against, having their benefits caped, having insurance bureaucrats make their health decisions and being dropped when they get sick you'd be correct

1. 
   Costs aren't going to go down.

1. 
   Actually every analysis fo Obamacare shows that ti lowers total health care spending by slashing wastingful spending
   http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/health_spending.html
   Ezra Klein - Does health-care reform bend the cost curve up?
   http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/pdf/system_spending.pdf
   Ezra Klein - The five most promising cost controls in the health-care bill
   

   It's just a guess that the law can pay for itself.

   No acually ever since the law passed the CBO scores it and the law keeps getting cheaper. Also every anaylsis other then the CBO fidns savings far exceed the CBO estimates

 

[starcraftzzz]

Some people won't get to keep the coverage they like.

If by like you meaning being discriminated against, having their benefits caped, having insurance bureaucrats make their health decisions and being dropped when they get sick you'd be correct

1. 
   Costs aren't going to go down.

1. 
   Actually every analysis fo Obamacare shows that ti lowers total health care spending by slashing wastingful spending
   http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/health_spending.html
   Ezra Klein - Does health-care reform bend the cost curve up?
   http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/pdf/system_spending.pdf
   Ezra Klein - The five most promising cost controls in the health-care bill
   

   It's just a guess that the law can pay for itself.

   No acually ever since the law passed the CBO scores it and the law keeps getting cheaper. Also every anaylsis other then the CBO fidns savings far exceed the CBO estimates