If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[Decepticon]

WHY ARE NO SOCIALIST COUNTRIES CHANGING TO OUR SYSTEM ?

Some have yet to run out of other people's money. Soon though, soon.

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

 

[eflatminor]

WHY ARE NO SOCIALIST COUNTRIES CHANGING TO OUR SYSTEM ?

Some have yet to run out of other people's money. Soon though, soon.

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

Well, since Germany is the only country that has ever practiced socialized medicine, I guess you're right...

 

[Meister]

If any of this were true, you could prove it. I'll wait while you don't.

Nope. Not a shred of evidence.
Meanwhile, MY ORIGINAL statement still stands true.

WHY ARE NO SOCIALIST COUNTRIES CHANGING TO OUR SYSTEM ?

First of all, Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine, so there's ONE country with socialized medicine moving back toward a more free system....Therefore your claim that no countries are making such a move is false on its face.

I' could post numerous links, viz. the outright lie of the inflated numbers of uninsured, all with legitimate citations, and I'll wager that you'll reject them all...Here are a few from just a cursory Google search...

The American Spectator : The Myth of the 46 Million

The myth of the uninsured - Raleigh Libertarian | Examiner.com

US Medicare and the Myth of "the 46 Million*Uninsured" - Bill's Commentary - William Gairdner, freethinker

Can you give a link to "Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?pagewanted=all
Timely Medical Services
Find Private Clinics in Canada for Walk in Clinics in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver
MMS: Error
Canada Sees Boom In Private Health Care Business | Fox News
Private Insurance In Canada | In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option - Los Angeles Times
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007
CIMCA | ACMIC
http://www.windsorstar.com/Private+...with+doctors+Windsor+Essex/4403075/story.html
Canadian Doctors for Medicare | Private clinics continue explosive growth
Private & Executive Healthcare Clinic | Medcan Clinic Toronto
Private health clinics remain unregulated in most of Canada
The rise of private care in Canada | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gee an article from the American Spectator.

What an unbiased unimpeachable source you have presented.

And as for Political Chic,

All I asked was for him to PROVE what he asserted.
He didn't prove ANYTHING.

I listen to rational facts based on good scientific methodology.
What I don't listen to is "this is true" for no other reason than I assert it to be so.

When I post on here that middle class incomes have been stagnant since the 80's I post a chart showing so and WHO conducted the research. When I post what the top tax rates were for the rich in 1950's, I post a link proving it and WHO provided the data.
When I post longevity charts to compare longevity in the US to other countries, , I use the CIA as a source.

What do you guys do?
Assert things to be true and don't provide a SHRED of evidence.

Prove to me the superiority of our system with EMPIRICAL DATA or you've LOST this argument. You can present either that ours is more cost-efficient or that our outcomes are better.
It's as simple as that.

What did CONZ come up with? A hack piece from the partisan American Spectator that argues that only 21 million americans are uninsured.

Golly....less than 10% of our population can't afford healthcare! WOWEE! We're doing GREAT!

Here's a clue for you morons. How much do those 21 million COST the rest of us, because they aren't insured? Is it MORE or LESS than what we save? You don't know. You didn't even think to ask the question. That alone shows how grossly underqualified CONZ are to discuss the issue.

Your function is to serve as a foil, allowing the correct information to be disseminated.

Good work.

 

[UpAndAbout]

Why are no socialist countries switching to our system of private insurance???


Oh, because US healthcare costs more and it provides worse outcomes.


Success is self-evident CONZ.
Point to all the demonstrations in socialist coutries DEMANDING they change to our system.
Point to the cost savings of the U.S. system.
Explain how having a for profit middleman saves money on healthcare spending?

If socialist countries have a more copacetic form of healthcare....what's keeping you here?

Yeah! that's what I'd like to know. I thought Sweden was/had abandoned their government healthcare. Was it them or somebody else? -- If socialized/government healthcare is so great, why do Canadians come here when they REALLY want something done?

 

[UpAndAbout]

Some have yet to run out of other people's money. Soon though, soon.

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

Well, since Germany is the only country that has ever practiced socialized medicine, I guess you're right...

These are the countries with Universal Healthcare, socialized medicine whatever you want to call it. List of Countries with Universal Healthcare « True Cost – Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit --- Notice US at the bottom.

 

[Meister]

WHY ARE NO SOCIALIST COUNTRIES CHANGING TO OUR SYSTEM ?

Some have yet to run out of other people's money. Soon though, soon.

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

Did a little research on your German healthcare:

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter. "I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Leibl says he feels "abused, exploited in a way" by this system, "because the work we are doing actually is pretty demanding. And I have a lot of responsibilities. And I think that should reflect in what I get paid."

In some parts of Germany, doctors are going on strike over what they get paid.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR


I think that could be called rationing healthcare, don't you, Deceptive?

 

[UpAndAbout]

This is a VERY interesting account of Sweden's healthcare system. I have pasted the conclusion here. Sweden's Single-Payer Health System Provides a Warning to Other Nations


While Sweden is a first world country, its health care system - at least in regards to access - is closer to the third world. Because the health care system is heavily-funded and operated by the government, the system is plagued with waiting lists for surgery. Those waiting lists increase patients' anxiety, pain and risk of death.

Sweden's health care system offers two lessons for the policymakers of the United States. The first is that a single-payer system is not the answer to the problems faced as Americans. Sweden's system does not hold down costs and results in rationing of care. The second lesson is that market-oriented reforms must permit the market to work. Specifically, government should not protect health care providers that fail to provide patients with a quality service from going out of business.

When the United States chooses to reform its health care system, reform should lead to improvement. Reforming along the lines of Sweden would only make our system worse.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why are no socialist countries switching to our system of private insurance???


Oh, because US healthcare costs more and it provides worse outcomes.


Success is self-evident CONZ.
Point to all the demonstrations in socialist coutries DEMANDING they change to our system.
Point to the cost savings of the U.S. system.
Explain how having a for profit middleman saves money on healthcare spending?

If socialist countries have a more copacetic form of healthcare....what's keeping you here?

Yeah! that's what I'd like to know. I thought Sweden was/had abandoned their government healthcare. Was it them or somebody else? -- If socialized/government healthcare is so great, why do Canadians come here when they REALLY want something done?

Welcome to the board, Uppy.

One thing I really like is this kind of soft-ball question, so I can answer it correctly, and in a manner that will antagonize our friends on the Left....

1. There was no groundswell of desire for government socialized healthcare...where was it prior to Obama?

2. The Left has always wanted a reason to take over more of the free market.

3.They fabricated stories of the horrors of American healthcare....and the Janissaries believed and repeated same.

4. Rammed it through Congress.

5. Research has never been the strong point of the Left Wing Umpa Lumpas .

 

[Political Junky]

A Brief History: Universal Health Care Efforts in the US | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[PoliticalChic]

A Brief History: Universal Health Care Efforts in the US | Physicians for a National Health Program

That was a great response, Junk!

Good article....

but doesn't speak to the point that better than 4 out of 5 folks were happy with their healthcare.

In fact, it opens the Left up to the usual criticism that they behave as though they know what's good for folks moreso than the folks themselves do.

And, today...
"Likely U.S. Voters shows that 56% at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care law, including 46% who Strongly Favor it. Thirty-nine percent (39%) oppose repeal, with 29% who are Strongly Opposed."
Health Care Law - Rasmussen Reports™


On the left, there is belief in the collective, and central planning, as opposed to freedom and liberty.

Right?

 

[UpAndAbout]

Some have yet to run out of other people's money. Soon though, soon.

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

Did a little research on your German healthcare:

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter. "I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Leibl says he feels "abused, exploited in a way" by this system, "because the work we are doing actually is pretty demanding. And I have a lot of responsibilities. And I think that should reflect in what I get paid."

In some parts of Germany, doctors are going on strike over what they get paid.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR


I think that could be called rationing healthcare, don't you, Deceptive?

Germany's insurance is Insurance Mandate, like Obamacare is.

 

[UpAndAbout]

If socialist countries have a more copacetic form of healthcare....what's keeping you here?

Yeah! that's what I'd like to know. I thought Sweden was/had abandoned their government healthcare. Was it them or somebody else? -- If socialized/government healthcare is so great, why do Canadians come here when they REALLY want something done?

Welcome to the board, Uppy.

One thing I really like is this kind of soft-ball question, so I can answer it correctly, and in a manner that will antagonize our friends on the Left....

1. There was no groundswell of desire for government socialized healthcare...where was it prior to Obama?

2. The Left has always wanted a reason to take over more of the free market.

3.They fabricated stories of the horrors of American healthcare....and the Janissaries believed and repeated same.

4. Rammed it through Congress.

5. Research has never been the strong point of the Left Wing Umpa Lumpas .

Thanks!!

 

[Meister]

you DO know that Germany has had socialized medicine since the END of WW2, right?

Are THEY running out of other people's money?

Way to prove you're an ignoramus.

Did a little research on your German healthcare:

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter. "I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Leibl says he feels "abused, exploited in a way" by this system, "because the work we are doing actually is pretty demanding. And I have a lot of responsibilities. And I think that should reflect in what I get paid."

In some parts of Germany, doctors are going on strike over what they get paid.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR


I think that could be called rationing healthcare, don't you, Deceptive?

Germany's insurance is Insurance Mandate, like Obamacare is.

Hmmmm, scarey, then

 

[Foxfyre]

Never in the history of the world has any government, once it had power or authority over the people, voluntarily given up that power. And what is greater power over the people than the ability to dictate what rights the people will have and controlling their food supply, their means of acquiring a living, and their healthcare?

The USA is the first (and only) government in the history of the world that gave the power to the people and assigned the central government the responsibility to protect unalienable rights so that the people could then peacefully govern themselves. And for the first 175 years or so that this grand experiment was implemented, the USA was the most free, most compassionate, most giving, most productive, most innovative, and most dynamic nation the world had ever known.

Without deference to class or ideology, Americans were the most generous, prosperous, productive, and creative people that had ever lived. We enjoyed the most freedom, the best schools, the best healthcare system, the most choices, and the most opportunity the world had ever known.

But socialism looks really good at first blush. Promised cradle to grave security and free stuff looks really good to a lot of people. And just a little bit at first--that turning over that little bit of power to the central government looks and feels pretty good too. Noble even. It feels right and what is so terrible? But as this happens little by little, increment by increment we have seen more and more of our society become ever more dependent on and at the mercy of that central government even as we have watched our schools erode, our healthcare system deteriorate, and our freedoms and opportunities diminish year by year.

And as many of us have finally awakened and realize what has been happening, we see the house of cards socialism has built in Europe and other places come crashing down. No government will ever operate an economy, schools, health care, or value human liberties and opportunity as welll as the people can do for themselves. I hope it isn't too late for America to reverse the course we have been on. I fear that if this generation does not do it, there won't be any people left who remember how precious and wonderful freedom is.

 

[freedombecki]

Never in the history of the world has any government, once it had power or authority over the people, voluntarily given up that power. And what is greater power over the people than the ability to dictate what rights the people will have and controlling their food supply, their means of acquiring a living, and their healthcare?

The USA is the first (and only) government in the history of the world that gave the power to the people and assigned the central government the responsibility to protect unalienable rights so that the people could then peacefully govern themselves. And for the first 175 years or so that this grand experiment was implemented, the USA was the most free, most compassionate, most giving, most productive, most innovative, and most dynamic nation the world had ever known.

Without deference to class or ideology, Americans were the most generous, prosperous, productive, and creative people that had ever lived. We enjoyed the most freedom, the best schools, the best healthcare system, the most choices, and the most opportunity the world had ever known.

But socialism looks really good at first blush. Promised cradle to grave security and free stuff looks really good to a lot of people. And just a little bit at first--that turning over that little bit of power to the central government looks and feels pretty good. Noble even. It feels right and what is so terrible? But as this happens little by little, increment by increment we have seen more and more of our society become ever more dependent on and at the mercy of that central government even as we have watched our schools erode, our healthcare system deteriorate, and our freedoms and opportunities diminish year by year.

And as many of us have finally awakened and realize what has been happening, we see the house of cards socialism has built in Europe and other places come crashing down. No government will ever operate an economy or value human liberties and opportunity as welll as the people can do for themselves. I hope it isn't too late for America to reverse the course we have been on.

You're right, Foxfyre! We need to shake off the bearish damper of socialism, and wildly so if we have to:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNP-C16XqA"]HD Web Extra: Super Slo Mo of Bear shaking water off its fur - Nature's Great Events - BBC One - YouTube[/ame]

Rep coming your way for a great essay. Just wow.
​

 

[Syphon]

Never in the history of the world has any government, once it had power or authority over the people, voluntarily given up that power. And what is greater power over the people than the ability to dictate what rights the people will have and controlling their food supply, their means of acquiring a living, and their healthcare?

The USA is the first (and only) government in the history of the world that gave the power to the people and assigned the central government the responsibility to protect unalienable rights so that the people could then peacefully govern themselves. And for the first 175 years or so that this grand experiment was implemented, the USA was the most free, most compassionate, most giving, most productive, most innovative, and most dynamic nation the world had ever known.

Without deference to class or ideology, Americans were the most generous, prosperous, productive, and creative people that had ever lived. We enjoyed the most freedom, the best schools, the best healthcare system, the most choices, and the most opportunity the world had ever known.

But socialism looks really good at first blush. Promised cradle to grave security and free stuff looks really good to a lot of people. And just a little bit at first--that turning over that little bit of power to the central government looks and feels pretty good. Noble even. It feels right and what is so terrible? But as this happens little by little, increment by increment we have seen more and more of our society become ever more dependent on and at the mercy of that central government even as we have watched our schools erode, our healthcare system deteriorate, and our freedoms and opportunities diminish year by year.

And as many of us have finally awakened and realize what has been happening, we see the house of cards socialism has built in Europe and other places come crashing down. No government will ever operate an economy or value human liberties and opportunity as welll as the people can do for themselves. I hope it isn't too late for America to reverse the course we have been on.

You're right, Foxfyre! We need to shake off the bearish damper of socialism, and wildly so if we have to:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNP-C16XqA"]HD Web Extra: Super Slo Mo of Bear shaking water off its fur - Nature's Great Events - BBC One - YouTube[/ame]

Rep coming your way for a great essay. Just wow.
​

youre too dumb to even know what socialism means..

 

[freedombecki]

First of all, Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine, so there's ONE country with socialized medicine moving back toward a more free system....Therefore your claim that no countries are making such a move is false on its face.

I' could post numerous links, viz. the outright lie of the inflated numbers of uninsured, all with legitimate citations, and I'll wager that you'll reject them all...Here are a few from just a cursory Google search...

The American Spectator : The Myth of the 46 Million

The myth of the uninsured - Raleigh Libertarian | Examiner.com

US Medicare and the Myth of "the 46 Million*Uninsured" - Bill's Commentary - William Gairdner, freethinker

Can you give a link to "Canada is backpedaling on their mandate that there be no for-hire medicine"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html?pagewanted=all
Timely Medical Services
Find Private Clinics in Canada for Walk in Clinics in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver
MMS: Error
Canada Sees Boom In Private Health Care Business | Fox News
Private Insurance In Canada | In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option - Los Angeles Times
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007
CIMCA | ACMIC
http://www.windsorstar.com/Private+...with+doctors+Windsor+Essex/4403075/story.html
Canadian Doctors for Medicare | Private clinics continue explosive growth
Private & Executive Healthcare Clinic | Medcan Clinic Toronto
Private health clinics remain unregulated in most of Canada
The rise of private care in Canada | Macleans.ca - Canada - Features

Those are all good Meister, although this one you linked is my personal fave: Private (Canadian) Clinics Continue Explosive Growth

 

[freedombecki]

Never in the history of the world has any government, once it had power or authority over the people, voluntarily given up that power. And what is greater power over the people than the ability to dictate what rights the people will have and controlling their food supply, their means of acquiring a living, and their healthcare?

The USA is the first (and only) government in the history of the world that gave the power to the people and assigned the central government the responsibility to protect unalienable rights so that the people could then peacefully govern themselves. And for the first 175 years or so that this grand experiment was implemented, the USA was the most free, most compassionate, most giving, most productive, most innovative, and most dynamic nation the world had ever known.

Without deference to class or ideology, Americans were the most generous, prosperous, productive, and creative people that had ever lived. We enjoyed the most freedom, the best schools, the best healthcare system, the most choices, and the most opportunity the world had ever known.

But socialism looks really good at first blush. Promised cradle to grave security and free stuff looks really good to a lot of people. And just a little bit at first--that turning over that little bit of power to the central government looks and feels pretty good. Noble even. It feels right and what is so terrible? But as this happens little by little, increment by increment we have seen more and more of our society become ever more dependent on and at the mercy of that central government even as we have watched our schools erode, our healthcare system deteriorate, and our freedoms and opportunities diminish year by year.

And as many of us have finally awakened and realize what has been happening, we see the house of cards socialism has built in Europe and other places come crashing down. No government will ever operate an economy or value human liberties and opportunity as welll as the people can do for themselves. I hope it isn't too late for America to reverse the course we have been on.

You're right, Foxfyre! We need to shake off the bearish damper of socialism, and wildly so if we have to:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNP-C16XqA"]HD Web Extra: Super Slo Mo of Bear shaking water off its fur - Nature's Great Events - BBC One - YouTube[/ame]

Rep coming your way for a great essay. Just wow.
​

youre too dumb to even know what socialism means..

Yes, dear, and you're too academic to be clinical enough to know that socialism as extreme as Obama's has historically led to societal necessity to wipe out people in terms of millions, thank you very much.

 

[Syphon]

You're right, Foxfyre! We need to shake off the bearish damper of socialism, and wildly so if we have to:

HD Web Extra: Super Slo Mo of Bear shaking water off its fur - Nature's Great Events - BBC One - YouTube

Rep coming your way for a great essay. Just wow.
​

youre too dumb to even know what socialism means..

Yes, dear, and you're too academic to be clinical enough to know that socialism as extreme as Obama's has historically led to societal necessity to wipe out people in terms of millions, thank you very much.

you cant even define socialism with using cut and paste from a dictionary. so save the lecture for another one of your brain washed wing nut friends.