If Obamacare is so great why are there no insurers backing it and

[debbiedowner]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

 

[Papageorgio]

I really don't see Congress writing out big insurance companies. The Dems didn't do it and I doubt the GOP will do it. So I don't see there being a single payer in this country.

Lots of ways to simplify healthcare to drive down costs, however the Dems will fight this.

 

[dblack]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Is that your final solution?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Is that your final solution?

yes.

 

[Redfish]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

basic medicare costs around $100/month and pays at best 80% of your medical bills. If you buy a supplement or a medicare advangage plan those cover almost all of the costs but you pay for them too. You and I paid for medicare out of our taxes during our working lives, just like we paid for our social security out of our paychecks. Putting the entire 330,000,000 Americans on medicare would cost billions that the country does not have. It wont work without huge tax increases that would apply to everyone (not just the evil rich). The country is 20 trillion in debt. medicare for all would put us in bankruptcy.

I get it that you think its free and wonderful, but its neither of those.

 

[Redfish]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Is that your final solution?

they tried that in Venezuela.

 

[Redfish]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

basic medicare costs around $100/month and pays at best 80% of your medical bills. If you buy a supplement or a medicare advangage plan those cover almost all of the costs but you pay for them too. You and I paid for medicare out of our taxes during our working lives, just like we paid for our social security out of our paychecks. Putting the entire 330,000,000 Americans on medicare would cost billions that the country does not have. It wont work without huge tax increases that would apply to everyone (not just the evil rich). The country is 20 trillion in debt. medicare for all would put us in bankruptcy.

I get it that you think its free and wonderful, but its neither of those.

...and, yet every other industrialized nation on earth can afford it. Keep in mind, that if everyone was covered by Medicare, there would no longer be any deduction on paychecks for your share of employee group health premiums, or dependent group health premiums. It would also reduce the cost to employers for paying their share of group health insurance. Savings would run into at least 9 figures per year. Employers would be able to lower their prices, and compete in the world market place. This would lead to millions more jobs. Of course, it might mean one less $100 billion aircraft carrier and maybe even require the military to close 50 or 60 overseas military bases. I think there are over 15 in Italy alone. Mussolini is dead. I'm not too concerned with another fascist uprising there.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

 

[idb]

how does Obamacare work without insurers

When you figure this out, let Obama know because he has no idea

Insurers are agnostic about whether the Affordable Care Act should be repealed or not, said co-author Sabrina Corlette, research professor at Georgetown University's Health Policy Institute.

"They just want clarity," said Corlette. "They say 'tell us what the rules are. We'll figure out a way to implement it.'"

Even after a replacement plan is in place, insurers told Urban researchers they would need several years to implement it. One carrier said three years would be the minimum.
Insurers warn: We're outta here if Congress repeals Obamacare with no replacement

 

[dblack]

how does Obamacare work without insurers

When you figure this out, let Obama know because he has no idea

Insurers are agnostic about whether the Affordable Care Act should be repealed or not, said co-author Sabrina Corlette, research professor at Georgetown University's Health Policy Institute.

"They just want clarity," said Corlette. "They say 'tell us what the rules are. We'll figure out a way to implement it.'"

Even after a replacement plan is in place, insurers told Urban researchers they would need several years to implement it. One carrier said three years would be the minimum.
Insurers warn: We're outta here if Congress repeals Obamacare with no replacement

Heh... it's not a bailout, really.

 

[dblack]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Is that your final solution?

Then you go get you some "single payer", and stop trying to bully everyone else into playing along.

 

[danielpalos]

I've been posting on this board since 2013 that the only way this country can have sustainable health coverage for all is through expanding Medicare to cover all citizens. My insurance career began in June, 1965, one month before Medicare went into effect, and endured for 15 years of hearing the RW scream that we were under a commie takeover and that it would fail, before they gave up. .I can't really be blamed if you have not been paying attention. Anything less will result in adverse selection and spiraling loss ratios. It really is that simple.

It's not sustainable. For one, when you say for ALL citizens you are also speaking of those who live off welfare with many who choose not to work. We already have an accruing debt which includes those who never contribute as responsible members of society. What you are purposing is irresponsible healthcare. Irresponsible meaning one where you speak of government handing out all these great "gifts" which sounds appealing on the surface but, when it comes to those little details of how exactly do you make such a dream wish financially sustainable and sound, is too often not thought through very well. Government has the same problem of sustainability with social security, which has this way of being revisited as a hot issue with every other election cycle, a battle between the problem of coverage and cost. In fact I can't find anyone who can name ONE government program that does not have cost problems, and not one that is proven to run more efficiently than the private sector ... not one. Now, like most everything else that surrounds these leftwing ideas of government entitlements, they simply use the familiar default excuse of "the rich will just pay for it'. This the rich will just have to [again] pay their increasing share, basically speaks of a plan where the details have not been thought out so they look to blow them off and brush it aside. Now, in this case, having the government completely take over healthcare with the "rich paying for it" is ...by definition... speaking of socialized medicine.

You see we have the usual promises the liberal democrats try to sell us on tthrough this fantasy of: let government be the parent holding the credit card and we'll just give you what you need. Only to later see those promises being broken in one of three ways - 1) premiums rising .. 2) reduction in coverage ... 3) government costs accruing like a snowball on our national debt. Democrats thought government can do a better job when they passed Obamacare, and it didn't take 8 years to see the consequence of less providers to offer insurance, resulting in a rise to premiums when insurers are left to cover the weight of an increase in the gap of coverages remaining, and cost STILL causing yet another government program to slip in increasing revenue problems from an inability to be self sustaining.

Massachusetts Health Care had the problem of battling the issues of increasing costs associated with care.
California failed to come up with a single payer system for their state, over the issue to cover costs.
Obamacare is collapsing due to a need for health care demand but a growing problem of costs.
NHS has to limit what treatments they will allow and cover, while they still battle over covering its British citizens over costs.
Canada has chosen to allow private insurers as a means to try and lower procedural wait times and battle costs.

Do we see a common thread that every case, which chooses to allow government control of healthcare, faces? It will be the same problem surrounding Medicare expansion for ALL Americans (which include those on a consistent, ongoing, welfare problem of growing government financial dependency).

I took a short cut to the end of your rant after the first two sentences. I have been hearing all the same arguments about Medicare, and how it is going to collapse, since 1965, and I am sure that there is nothing new that you can add. Of course, this is the way it is done in every other industrialized nation on earth, as well.

As I have likewise heard all the angles and excuses over how liberals believe single payer or Medicare expansion that's covers ALL Americans, especially welfare recipients, can be more cost effective and solvent. You haven't proven that at all, nor an explaination on how you believe government will cover the cost. Cost is the underlining issue that you obviously have a hard time with confronting when asked, The same can be said of those who believe social security is the same as it always has been and that funding is not really an issue. Those individuals end up being the very same people who didn't really know how our government set up the program in order to help those retirees in the FIRST place. You really should just go back to your insurance desk, since it's pretty evident that finances is not your forte.

And, yet, as I said before, every industrialized country on earth has some form of universal health care and not ONE of them has EVER discarded it to adopt our insurance model, which leaves millions uninsured, and burdens our employers with the lion's share of the cost of group health insurance, which makes them noncompetitive in the world marketplace. Ford, for example, has spent more per car manufactured in America on employee health insurance, than they spend on steel, since 1977. In spite of that, the RW can't seem to understand why manufacturers are moving jobs to other nations as fast as possible.

Sorry the Canadian Health Care System has REINTRODUCED privatized Health Care as part of their means for government to help cover cost as well as medical wait times.

The Massachusetts Health Care system felt they could cover ALL citizens within their border with coverage, and they are finding budget cost issues,

California is in as much gridlock as Congress with their Health Care choice to establish single-payer. You would think for a far left liberal state their dream wish vision would be easy, but they are having a tough time getting it off the ground due to cost.

England's NHS are withholding certain treatment options in an attempt to control cost.

Each and every system above has been faced with the very same issue of founding themselves unsuccessful and unable to control Health Care budget costs. Not one success story in the bunch, which is why you repeatedly avoided addressing that particular issue.

Dears, truer forms of capitalism means that the poor will not be able to afford health care, like in third world economies.

 

[danielpalos]

If, ObamaCare was so Bad, why couldn't the right, with nothing but repeal, repeal it? Just being worth less, in the non-porn sector?

Republicans have conservatives who are ant to reign in government control and icost of health care and allow people to attain it through private insurance. They believe in a competitive market to drive down premium cost with the individual seeking health care the latitude to choose the kind of care that fits with their situation that they can actually USE, rather than a one size fits all option.

Republican moderates want to expand Medicare and government involvement in healthcare, they are more aligned with the ACA mandate and government dictating the kind of insurance everyone will carry. Moderates are more closely aligned with Democrats than Conservatives.. As long as EVERY Republican (moderate and conservative) are demanding their wish list views of Health Care be accepted, and every Republican must vote for the same plan, those two extremes within the party will never come to a mutual agreement and concession towards a bill.

Why not solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States via unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed; to increase the efficiency of our markets?

 

[danielpalos]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

We should Expect the Finest health care money can buy in our Republic, with our One Percenter in Chief.

 

[Redfish]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

 

[Redfish]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

basic medicare costs around $100/month and pays at best 80% of your medical bills. If you buy a supplement or a medicare advangage plan those cover almost all of the costs but you pay for them too. You and I paid for medicare out of our taxes during our working lives, just like we paid for our social security out of our paychecks. Putting the entire 330,000,000 Americans on medicare would cost billions that the country does not have. It wont work without huge tax increases that would apply to everyone (not just the evil rich). The country is 20 trillion in debt. medicare for all would put us in bankruptcy.

I get it that you think its free and wonderful, but its neither of those.

...and, yet every other industrialized nation on earth can afford it. Keep in mind, that if everyone was covered by Medicare, there would no longer be any deduction on paychecks for your share of employee group health premiums, or dependent group health premiums. It would also reduce the cost to employers for paying their share of group health insurance. Savings would run into at least 9 figures per year. Employers would be able to lower their prices, and compete in the world market place. This would lead to millions more jobs. Of course, it might mean one less $100 billion aircraft carrier and maybe even require the military to close 50 or 60 overseas military bases. I think there are over 15 in Italy alone. Mussolini is dead. I'm not too concerned with another fascist uprising there.

those countries tax everyone at 60-70% of their income in order to provide all the "free" stuff. They also tell you which docs you can use, what medical services you can have, and when you can have them. You have zero choice. Again, you need to engage your brain and think about what you are really asking for.

 

[debbiedowner]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

So are they on the government payroll with Medicare?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have lost patience with you guys who are dead set in favor of repealing ACA, and replacing it with a health insurance system which NOBODY thinks is better than ACA. What I see is sour grapes, not solutions. The solution is what i have been saying for years. Universal health coverage, based on the Medicare model.

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

basic medicare costs around $100/month and pays at best 80% of your medical bills. If you buy a supplement or a medicare advangage plan those cover almost all of the costs but you pay for them too. You and I paid for medicare out of our taxes during our working lives, just like we paid for our social security out of our paychecks. Putting the entire 330,000,000 Americans on medicare would cost billions that the country does not have. It wont work without huge tax increases that would apply to everyone (not just the evil rich). The country is 20 trillion in debt. medicare for all would put us in bankruptcy.

I get it that you think its free and wonderful, but its neither of those.

...and, yet every other industrialized nation on earth can afford it. Keep in mind, that if everyone was covered by Medicare, there would no longer be any deduction on paychecks for your share of employee group health premiums, or dependent group health premiums. It would also reduce the cost to employers for paying their share of group health insurance. Savings would run into at least 9 figures per year. Employers would be able to lower their prices, and compete in the world market place. This would lead to millions more jobs. Of course, it might mean one less $100 billion aircraft carrier and maybe even require the military to close 50 or 60 overseas military bases. I think there are over 15 in Italy alone. Mussolini is dead. I'm not too concerned with another fascist uprising there.

those countries tax everyone at 60-70% of their income in order to provide all the "free" stuff. They also tell you which docs you can use, what medical services you can have, and when you can have them. You have zero choice. Again, you need to engage your brain and think about what you are really asking for.

LInk on the tax part?

As for the rest, I ask for no link because i already know that it is not true. Just like under or old health care system , nobody ever told you what services you can have, and who will provide them. They merely told you what they will pay for. if you don't like it, you can go anywhere and get any service, as long as you pay cash for it.