If Obamacare is so great why are there no insurers backing it and

[dblack]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

The truth is that the feds are not even slightly interested in entering the health provider business. In fact, I have never even heard ANYONE suggest that they do so. I'm sure that if there was a graceful way of contracting out VA benefits to private providers, so that they could get out of the VA hospital business, they would do it in a heartbeat.

The government has been doing their best to get out of the business world in America for decades. They finally got out of regulating the AT&T telephone monopoly and the regulated airline industry (when I was young, Transam airlines was the only American company allowed to fly overseas from the USA), The shipping industry (no ship could go from US port to US port, unless it was built in America) and have come a long way in trying to get out of the post office business, AMTRAC, and regulating interstate bus service.

 

[danielpalos]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

military health care is a form of communism or applied socialism.

 

[dblack]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

Because Medicare isn't single payer.

If we go with single payer, the government will be able dictate terms to doctors, and patients, because government will be the primary source of health care funding. In their more candid moments, liberals actually tout this as a "feature" (not a bug!). They claim that government can use the new power to control prices, which they can. But you're saying they won't. Which is it?

 

[dblack]

military health care is a form of communism or applied socialism.

No it's not danielpalos - put down the pipe and pick up a dictionary.

 

[Redfish]

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

So are they on the government payroll with Medicare?

No, and that's why many doctors wont accept medicare patients------------------they expect to get paid for their services

 

[Redfish]

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

medicare only applies to people 65 and older, and we paid for it out of our paychecks while working. Make it apply to everyone and the government will control all medicine.

single payer would not operate like medicare for several reasons
1. medicare only pays 80% of your medical bill
2. medicare is funded by payroll taxes
3. insurance companies cover most people under 65, Medicaid covers the rest
4. with single payer there is no incentive for healthcare providers to compete, no incentive for drug companies to develop new drugs, no incentive for doctors to develop new surgical techniques--------------------why you say--------------------because under single payer, medical providers would be paid a flat salary.

 

[Redfish]

Your plan would result in a system like the VA for all of us. Think about that-----------------is that what you really want?

No, I will say it again. Based on the Medicare model. And Medicare is about as good a health plan as I have ever had.

basic medicare costs around $100/month and pays at best 80% of your medical bills. If you buy a supplement or a medicare advangage plan those cover almost all of the costs but you pay for them too. You and I paid for medicare out of our taxes during our working lives, just like we paid for our social security out of our paychecks. Putting the entire 330,000,000 Americans on medicare would cost billions that the country does not have. It wont work without huge tax increases that would apply to everyone (not just the evil rich). The country is 20 trillion in debt. medicare for all would put us in bankruptcy.

I get it that you think its free and wonderful, but its neither of those.

...and, yet every other industrialized nation on earth can afford it. Keep in mind, that if everyone was covered by Medicare, there would no longer be any deduction on paychecks for your share of employee group health premiums, or dependent group health premiums. It would also reduce the cost to employers for paying their share of group health insurance. Savings would run into at least 9 figures per year. Employers would be able to lower their prices, and compete in the world market place. This would lead to millions more jobs. Of course, it might mean one less $100 billion aircraft carrier and maybe even require the military to close 50 or 60 overseas military bases. I think there are over 15 in Italy alone. Mussolini is dead. I'm not too concerned with another fascist uprising there.

those countries tax everyone at 60-70% of their income in order to provide all the "free" stuff. They also tell you which docs you can use, what medical services you can have, and when you can have them. You have zero choice. Again, you need to engage your brain and think about what you are really asking for.

LInk on the tax part?

As for the rest, I ask for no link because i already know that it is not true. Just like under or old health care system , nobody ever told you what services you can have, and who will provide them. They merely told you what they will pay for. if you don't like it, you can go anywhere and get any service, as long as you pay cash for it.

https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending/

 

[Redfish]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

The truth is that the feds are not even slightly interested in entering the health provider business. In fact, I have never even heard ANYONE suggest that they do so. I'm sure that if there was a graceful way of contracting out VA benefits to private providers, so that they could get out of the VA hospital business, they would do it in a heartbeat.

The government has been doing their best to get out of the business world in America for decades. They finally got out of regulating the AT&T telephone monopoly and the regulated airline industry (when I was young, Transam airlines was the only American company allowed to fly overseas from the USA), The shipping industry (no ship could go from US port to US port, unless it was built in America) and have come a long way in trying to get out of the post office business, AMTRAC, and regulating interstate bus service.

the Jones act relative to shipping and ships built in the USA is still in force. A US flagged ship cannot sail between two US ports unless it was built in the USA.

 

[Vandalshandle]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

Because Medicare isn't single payer.

If we go with single payer, the government will be able dictate terms to doctors, and patients, because government will be the primary source of health care funding. In their more candid moments, liberals actually tout this as a "feature" (not a bug!). They claim that government can use the new power to control prices, which they can. But you're saying they won't. Which is it?

Black, when people say, "Single payer", they mean the same as Medicare.Medicare used to be a single payer, until they allowed the private sector to compete by bringing out advantage products, which has worked extremely well. We call it "single payer", because it is to much trouble to advocate, "government run insurance for all, except private companies would compete the same what they do in Medicare".

Geeze........!

 

[Vandalshandle]

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

medicare only applies to people 65 and older, and we paid for it out of our paychecks while working. Make it apply to everyone and the government will control all medicine.

single payer would not operate like medicare for several reasons
1. medicare only pays 80% of your medical bill
2. medicare is funded by payroll taxes
3. insurance companies cover most people under 65, Medicaid covers the rest
4. with single payer there is no incentive for healthcare providers to compete, no incentive for drug companies to develop new drugs, no incentive for doctors to develop new surgical techniques--------------------why you say--------------------because under single payer, medical providers would be paid a flat salary.

Red, you are not on Medicare, and frankly you simply do not know what you are talking about. I live in a retire community with 31,000 people, all of whom are over 55 years old, and 80% are over 65 years old. Not only does the community have plenty of doctors, I have never had to wait more than 5 days to get an appointment. i have my choice of three private companies that compete with Medicare, or, Medicare, itself. I choose CareMore, which successfully competes because they throw in extra benefits that I like, including glasses, frames and vision exams. My benefits are 100% with a $300 hospital deductible, and a $15 copay to see a specialist. I pay nothing to see my primary care doc, or for lab work. My girl friend chose to buy a Medicare Supp. from a private company that even pays the copays and deductibles for her. Please try to stick to things that you are familiar with. Medicare Advantage, is apparently beyond your experience.

 

[Vandalshandle]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

The truth is that the feds are not even slightly interested in entering the health provider business. In fact, I have never even heard ANYONE suggest that they do so. I'm sure that if there was a graceful way of contracting out VA benefits to private providers, so that they could get out of the VA hospital business, they would do it in a heartbeat.

The government has been doing their best to get out of the business world in America for decades. They finally got out of regulating the AT&T telephone monopoly and the regulated airline industry (when I was young, Transam airlines was the only American company allowed to fly overseas from the USA), The shipping industry (no ship could go from US port to US port, unless it was built in America) and have come a long way in trying to get out of the post office business, AMTRAC, and regulating interstate bus service.

the Jones act relative to shipping and ships built in the USA is still in force. A US flagged ship cannot sail between two US ports unless it was built in the USA.

Which is an incredibly stupid law that has been in effect for more than 50 years and has not resulting in a single ship being built in this country. I thought by now, even congress would have realized that they had made a mistake.

 

[danielpalos]

military health care is a form of communism or applied socialism.

No it's not danielpalos - put down the pipe and pick up a dictionary.

Yes, it is. You are simply clueless and Causeless.

 

[debbiedowner]

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

medicare only applies to people 65 and older, and we paid for it out of our paychecks while working. Make it apply to everyone and the government will control all medicine.

single payer would not operate like medicare for several reasons
1. medicare only pays 80% of your medical bill
2. medicare is funded by payroll taxes
3. insurance companies cover most people under 65, Medicaid covers the rest
4. with single payer there is no incentive for healthcare providers to compete, no incentive for drug companies to develop new drugs, no incentive for doctors to develop new surgical techniques--------------------why you say--------------------because under single payer, medical providers would be paid a flat salary.

No Medicare is not available to just everyone over 65.

 

[debbiedowner]

He is mixing Medicare with VA.

VA facilities are only as good as whoever is running any particular one. There have been bad ones and good ones, VA does extensive research on different conditions that are positive. VA may file claims directly with the government (I don't know) and then paid from one agency to another. I know the insurance company I work for used to and still may receive claims from Medicare to adjudicate Part B. I did take my Medicare certification over the weekend and notice there may be a different company adjudicating their claims. This I also believe is divided sort of down the middle of the country whereas west of the Ms may be a different company adjudicating Medicare claims.

But you cannot put the care received under Medicare in the same boat as VA.

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

So are they on the government payroll with Medicare?

No, and that's why many doctors wont accept medicare patients------------------they expect to get paid for their services

they won't accept it altogether or simply won't accept Medicare assignment?

 

[Tresha91203]

Time to do away with the insurance companies. They're just "death panels" that aren't subject to being voted out. Single payer, NOW!

are you crazy. Do you want all medical care to look like the VA? Damn, I cannot believe how ignorant you liberals are.

The VA gives excellent care. That's not the problem. The problem is the system is overwhelmed by 15 years of the US being perpetual involved in shooting wars and by the failure of successive Republican Budgets to properly fund health care for veterans.

The problem isn't the quality of care, its access to it. Republicans are big in sending soldiers into war, but then reneg on their promises to care for them when they're injured. They'd rather dump them into the general care of private insurance companies even though their injuries are better treated by the specialized services the VA provides, which public hospitals don't have the skills or expertise to treat.

Every time I see a commercial for the Wounded Warrior Project, it makes me angry. Why do these brave men and women have to beg for money for assistance and services for their injuries? It's so wrong on every level.

Democrats also didn't fix it when they had a veto-proof majority so it's not the evil Republicans.

 

[Dragonlady]

Time to do away with the insurance companies. They're just "death panels" that aren't subject to being voted out. Single payer, NOW!

are you crazy. Do you want all medical care to look like the VA? Damn, I cannot believe how ignorant you liberals are.

The VA gives excellent care. That's not the problem. The problem is the system is overwhelmed by 15 years of the US being perpetual involved in shooting wars and by the failure of successive Republican Budgets to properly fund health care for veterans.

The problem isn't the quality of care, its access to it. Republicans are big in sending soldiers into war, but then reneg on their promises to care for them when they're injured. They'd rather dump them into the general care of private insurance companies even though their injuries are better treated by the specialized services the VA provides, which public hospitals don't have the skills or expertise to treat.

Every time I see a commercial for the Wounded Warrior Project, it makes me angry. Why do these brave men and women have to beg for money for assistance and services for their injuries? It's so wrong on every level.

Democrats also didn't fix it when they had a veto-proof majority so it's not the evil Republicans.

This has been going on since Vietnam Nam, and successive administrations from Johnson on forward, are all equally guilty. Repeat rant exchange Canada for USA. Britain too.

Every politician campaigns on getting a fair shake for veterans and every elected politician lets them down, and worse, cuts benefits.

The American Empire will fail for the same reason as every world power since the Fall of Rome: The costs of maintaining a standing army and the constant warfare needed to build and sustain a worldwide empire, cannot be borne by a single nation for any sustained period.

The costs of keeping the promises made to young men and women especially considering the peril they're placed in, should be kept. By every administration in every country. Veterans should not have to rely on charity for medical care or rehabilitation after injury. Period.

 

[Tresha91203]

Time to do away with the insurance companies. They're just "death panels" that aren't subject to being voted out. Single payer, NOW!

are you crazy. Do you want all medical care to look like the VA? Damn, I cannot believe how ignorant you liberals are.

The VA gives excellent care. That's not the problem. The problem is the system is overwhelmed by 15 years of the US being perpetual involved in shooting wars and by the failure of successive Republican Budgets to properly fund health care for veterans.

The problem isn't the quality of care, its access to it. Republicans are big in sending soldiers into war, but then reneg on their promises to care for them when they're injured. They'd rather dump them into the general care of private insurance companies even though their injuries are better treated by the specialized services the VA provides, which public hospitals don't have the skills or expertise to treat.

Every time I see a commercial for the Wounded Warrior Project, it makes me angry. Why do these brave men and women have to beg for money for assistance and services for their injuries? It's so wrong on every level.

Democrats also didn't fix it when they had a veto-proof majority so it's not the evil Republicans.

This has been going on since Vietnam Nam, and successive administrations from Johnson on forward, are all equally guilty. Repeat rant exchange Canada for USA. Britain too.

Every politician campaigns on getting a fair shake for veterans and every elected politician lets them down, and worse, cuts benefits.

The American Empire will fail for the same reason as every world power since the Fall of Rome: The costs of maintaining a standing army and the constant warfare needed to build and sustain a worldwide empire, cannot be borne by a single nation for any sustained period.

The costs of keeping the promises made to young men and women especially considering the peril they're placed in, should be kept. By every administration in every country. Veterans should not have to rely on charity for medical care or rehabilitation after injury. Period.

I agree. I was pointing out that the Dems are equally responsible. You pointed out that Republicans cause ears and don't find VA. I'm pointing out Dems have done and continue to do the very thing you accuse only Repubs of doing.

Politicians of BOTH sides are equally responsible but you single out Republicans and go on a rant of how it's their fault even though the Dems do the exact same thing.

 

[Doc1]

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

Because it takes over the entire health care market, rather than just a small slice of it.

That being the case, and knowing that Medicare has existed for 50 years, why are there no government run Medicare hospitals?

Because Medicare isn't single payer.

If we go with single payer, the government will be able dictate terms to doctors, and patients, because government will be the primary source of health care funding. In their more candid moments, liberals actually tout this as a "feature" (not a bug!). They claim that government can use the new power to control prices, which they can. But you're saying they won't. Which is it?

Black, when people say, "Single payer", they mean the same as Medicare.Medicare used to be a single payer, until they allowed the private sector to compete by bringing out advantage products, which has worked extremely well. We call it "single payer", because it is to much trouble to advocate, "government run insurance for all, except private companies would compete the same what they do in Medicare".

Geeze........!

LOL, you just make shit up as you go.

"Single-payer health care
Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs. Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom)."

 

[Doc1]

not now, but if we turn all medical care over to the government, the VA model is what we will get. This is not complicated----------------------------THINK!

Wrong, Red. The trouble with the VA is that they own and run their own hospitals. Medicare simply contracst that out to the private sector.

WTF do you think is the next step if we were to go to government run medicine? Think, dude (or dudette). Hospitals and doctors would be on the government payroll and the entire medical system would be one big VA like clusterf"k

And, yet, the government does not own a single health care provider under Medicare. Why do you think that universal health care would not operate like Medicare>?

medicare only applies to people 65 and older, and we paid for it out of our paychecks while working. Make it apply to everyone and the government will control all medicine.

single payer would not operate like medicare for several reasons
1. medicare only pays 80% of your medical bill
2. medicare is funded by payroll taxes
3. insurance companies cover most people under 65, Medicaid covers the rest
4. with single payer there is no incentive for healthcare providers to compete, no incentive for drug companies to develop new drugs, no incentive for doctors to develop new surgical techniques--------------------why you say--------------------because under single payer, medical providers would be paid a flat salary.

Red, you are not on Medicare, and frankly you simply do not know what you are talking about. I live in a retire community with 31,000 people, all of whom are over 55 years old, and 80% are over 65 years old. Not only does the community have plenty of doctors, I have never had to wait more than 5 days to get an appointment. i have my choice of three private companies that compete with Medicare, or, Medicare, itself. I choose CareMore, which successfully competes because they throw in extra benefits that I like, including glasses, frames and vision exams. My benefits are 100% with a $300 hospital deductible, and a $15 copay to see a specialist. I pay nothing to see my primary care doc, or for lab work. My girl friend chose to buy a Medicare Supp. from a private company that even pays the copays and deductibles for her. Please try to stick to things that you are familiar with. Medicare Advantage, is apparently beyond your experience.

"medicare only pays 80% of your medical bill"

He is absolutely correct, Medicare Part A pays ONLY 80%, hence the need for a supplement. Medicare Advantage plans only work well in areas of high population density.