If more guns = safety , then more nukes = safety?

[Doc1]

No....you missed what I said.....the Japanese leadership in World War 2 said they would use them...I didn't say anything about the modern leadership...
.

Unlike Germany, Japan wasn't taken over by a fascist political group. The japanese generals were mainstream japanese, pretty much the same you have today.

Please, the "Emperor" was their god.

The Japanese government was socialist....they took 70% of your income to be used by the state....

The Japanese Generals were racists and nuts.....

The Emperor was god and they'd do anything he said.

 

[2aguy]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

We dont want criminals to have guns, just like we dont want North Korea to have nukes.

More good guys with guns = more safety
More good nations with nukes = more safety

What if those 'good nations' suddenly aren't so good any more?

Yeah...that is why you want limited government with checks and balances on it's power.....unlike the left who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite....that is the problem with leftism......

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

 

[idb]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

We dont want criminals to have guns, just like we dont want North Korea to have nukes.

More good guys with guns = more safety
More good nations with nukes = more safety

What if those 'good nations' suddenly aren't so good any more?

Yeah...that is why you want limited government with checks and balances on it's power.....unlike the left who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite....that is the problem with leftism......

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

So...what will all the rest of the left's ever-expanding government do?

 

[Cellblock2429]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

 

[Timmy]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

What would be the purpose of that ? You do a background check , find out the girl went to prison. Then what? No abortion?

 

[Doc1]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

Lower the bar, let's just go for a 3 day waiting period.

 

[Doc1]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

What would be the purpose of that ? You do a background check , find out the girl went to prison. Then what? No abortion?

You have no idea how stupid you look here.

 

[2aguy]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

What would be the purpose of that ? You do a background check , find out the girl went to prison. Then what? No abortion?

And I notice you didn't address my questions about background checks and gun registration.

Let me repeat them...

You guys always bring up background checks and registration....how do those work to do anything to stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns?

Could you explain how they actually work?

Because:

1) criminals get their guns from people who can already pass background checks or they get them by stealing them...or from others who have already stolen them...

So how does a background check work to stop criminals?

2) Mass shooters...almost every single one has passed one or more background checks to get their guns...since they don't have a criminal record before the mass shooting....background checks are useless to stop them...

How does a background check stop mass shooters, who can pass background checks?

Registration....

Do you realize that felons do not have to register their illegal guns? This is because of the ruling by the Supreme Court in Haynes v. United States.....

And how does a registration help to stop or solve crimes...when the shooters didn't buy the guns...didn't register the guns and either stole them or got them from a straw buyer?

Do you realize that Canada already tried to register their long guns....and had to give it up...?

So what you want to do, register guns, doesn't stop gun crime, doesn't solve gun crime, doesn't apply to actual criminals, and has already failed wherever it has been tried...

Canada...

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.

 

[Timmy]

God.

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

Well sure, Chicago proves your assertion.

Chicago is a city . Not a state . And they import those guns from loose law gun nut states :

Why not compare Boston wh Phoenix ? About the same size . How about Seattle wh Miami ?

 

[2aguy]

We dont want criminals to have guns, just like we dont want North Korea to have nukes.

More good guys with guns = more safety
More good nations with nukes = more safety

What if those 'good nations' suddenly aren't so good any more?

Yeah...that is why you want limited government with checks and balances on it's power.....unlike the left who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite....that is the problem with leftism......

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

So...what will all the rest of the left's ever-expanding government do?

What they always do....take more money, intrude more in our lives.....and pretty much wreck everything they touch.

 

[idb]

What if those 'good nations' suddenly aren't so good any more?

Yeah...that is why you want limited government with checks and balances on it's power.....unlike the left who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite....that is the problem with leftism......

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

So...what will all the rest of the left's ever-expanding government do?

What they always do....take more money, intrude more in our lives.....and pretty much wreck everything they touch.

So, why would you want them in charge of nukes?

 

[2aguy]

God.

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

Well sure, Chicago proves your assertion.

Chicago is a city . Not a state . And they import those guns from loose law gun nut states :

And you are wrong there too.....

New York and L.A. have the exact same gun laws as Chicago.....they also are located within easy driving distance of states with gun laws that are less extreme....Arizona...Texas......for L.A.....Vermont for New York....yet Chicago still has far more gun murder than both of them...

So access to guns doesn't drive gun murder....the attitude of the criminal towards murder drives the gun murder rate...

 

[Doc1]

God.

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

Well sure, Chicago proves your assertion.

Chicago is a city . Not a state . And they import those guns from loose law gun nut states :

You're an idiot, a blind partisan idiot. There is no debating a mental invalid. They don't "import" them from anywhere dolt. They buy them on the black market.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...that is why you want limited government with checks and balances on it's power.....unlike the left who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite....that is the problem with leftism......

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

So...what will all the rest of the left's ever-expanding government do?

What they always do....take more money, intrude more in our lives.....and pretty much wreck everything they touch.

So, why would you want them in charge of nukes?

Again, you are don't understand...no one with a brain wants the left in charge of anything....

 

[Timmy]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

What would be the purpose of that ? You do a background check , find out the girl went to prison. Then what? No abortion?

And I notice you didn't address my questions about background checks and gun registration.

Let me repeat them...

You guys always bring up background checks and registration....how do those work to do anything to stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns?

Could you explain how they actually work?

Because:

1) criminals get their guns from people who can already pass background checks or they get them by stealing them...or from others who have already stolen them...

So how does a background check work to stop criminals?

2) Mass shooters...almost every single one has passed one or more background checks to get their guns...since they don't have a criminal record before the mass shooting....background checks are useless to stop them...

How does a background check stop mass shooters, who can pass background checks?

Registration....

Do you realize that felons do not have to register their illegal guns? This is because of the ruling by the Supreme Court in Haynes v. United States.....

And how does a registration help to stop or solve crimes...when the shooters didn't buy the guns...didn't register the guns and either stole them or got them from a straw buyer?

Do you realize that Canada already tried to register their long guns....and had to give it up...?

So what you want to do, register guns, doesn't stop gun crime, doesn't solve gun crime, doesn't apply to actual criminals, and has already failed wherever it has been tried...

Canada...

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.

Your description of the Haynes case is fake news .

You don't seriously believe all these illegal guns were stolen.!?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yes, North Korea and Iran would be crazy not to develop Nuclear Weapons. They've seen what happened in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Those nations didn't have a Nuclear deterrent. And that's cost em bigtime. Can you really blame North Korea and Iran for seeking Nuclear Weapons?

If they would stop with the "we'll destroy America" bullshit they might be viewed in a better light.

No, that ship sailed a long time ago. North Korea and Iran refuse to be US/Western Puppets. And that renders them marked for death. Any foreign leader and nation that refuses to be US/Western Puppets, must be removed. Iran and North Korea are well aware of how it works. They'll need Nuclear Weapons to deter the US/West from attacking. You can't blame them for it. It's just the reality.

Sigh... you are pretending like they are independent self sustaining countries. Iran is a puppet of Russia and NK is a puppet of China.

What country is a US puppet? You could make an argument for Israel, but they have free elections, despite the money and other efforts made by Obama to undermine those elections.

Canada is a puppet of the USA.

And what influence does Canada have on the world stage?

 

[idb]

Haaaannngg ooonnnn!
I thought that "leftists" wanted to expand the government!!!

You read my post wrong.....notice where I said..."unlike the left, who insists on giving massive power to a small governing elite...."

So...what will all the rest of the left's ever-expanding government do?

What they always do....take more money, intrude more in our lives.....and pretty much wreck everything they touch.

So, why would you want them in charge of nukes?

Again, you are don't understand...no one with a brain wants the left in charge of anything....

So, why would you want any government in charge of nukes if the object is to keep them small and with limited power?

 

[Timmy]

God.

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

Wouldn't that translate to a global scale with nuke weapons ? More countries wh nukes, then less likelyhood of war ! Right?

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

Well sure, Chicago proves your assertion.

Chicago is a city . Not a state . And they import those guns from loose law gun nut states :

You're an idiot, a blind partisan idiot. There is no debating a mental invalid. They don't "import" them from anywhere dolt. They buy them on the black market.

Yeah. From gun nut states who make it easy to straw purchase.

Every gun is born "legal", so tell me how they end up Illegal ?

 

[idb]

Yes, North Korea and Iran would be crazy not to develop Nuclear Weapons. They've seen what happened in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Those nations didn't have a Nuclear deterrent. And that's cost em bigtime. Can you really blame North Korea and Iran for seeking Nuclear Weapons?

If they would stop with the "we'll destroy America" bullshit they might be viewed in a better light.

No, that ship sailed a long time ago. North Korea and Iran refuse to be US/Western Puppets. And that renders them marked for death. Any foreign leader and nation that refuses to be US/Western Puppets, must be removed. Iran and North Korea are well aware of how it works. They'll need Nuclear Weapons to deter the US/West from attacking. You can't blame them for it. It's just the reality.

Sigh... you are pretending like they are independent self sustaining countries. Iran is a puppet of Russia and NK is a puppet of China.

What country is a US puppet? You could make an argument for Israel, but they have free elections, despite the money and other efforts made by Obama to undermine those elections.

Canada is a puppet of the USA.

And what influence does Canada have on the world stage?

There could be quite a bit actually...if they want it...

 

[2aguy]

this is a common talking point for righties . If more guns are aviailble to people then there's less crime because everyone is armed .

It isn't a talking point...it is a fact.....

In the United States we had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million Americans actually carried guns for self defense...legally.........in 2016 we now had 357-400 million guns and over 15 million Americans carrying guns for self defense legall.

According to you, we should have had massive increases in gun crime and gun murder....

What did we actually have?

--our gun crime rate went down 75%....so your belief is wrong.

--our gun murder rate went down 49%....so your belief is wrong.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.....so your belief is wrong.

And in that time what happened in Britain..where they took guns away from normal British people....the gun crime rate and the gun murder rate went up....then went back to the same place it was before the ban...

And now in London, gun crime went up 42%......last year....20 years after the ban...and violent crime is up 24%....

So you are wrong Timmy...everything you believe about guns is just wrong......and made up in your head.

Timmy....how do you explain the fact that as more Americans...a lot more.....own and carried guns...and our crime rates went down.....how do you explain that? Since you believe that more guns in more hands has to create more gun murder, more gun crime and more violent crime....

How do you explain that?

We're waiting....

You mistake me for someone who wants to ban guns . I don't have issues with gun ownership or even conceal/carry . I'd just like sensible gun control (background checks , gun "titles" to follow sales ) .

There are many reasons that crime has dropped.

What you will find is states wh tougher gun laws have overall less gun crime than gun nut states . And please , no intellectual dishonesty in comparing a New York wh Wyoming.

/---- how about sensible abortion laws like background checks and a 3 day waiting period?

What would be the purpose of that ? You do a background check , find out the girl went to prison. Then what? No abortion?

And I notice you didn't address my questions about background checks and gun registration.

Let me repeat them...

You guys always bring up background checks and registration....how do those work to do anything to stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns?

Could you explain how they actually work?

Because:

1) criminals get their guns from people who can already pass background checks or they get them by stealing them...or from others who have already stolen them...

So how does a background check work to stop criminals?

2) Mass shooters...almost every single one has passed one or more background checks to get their guns...since they don't have a criminal record before the mass shooting....background checks are useless to stop them...

How does a background check stop mass shooters, who can pass background checks?

Registration....

Do you realize that felons do not have to register their illegal guns? This is because of the ruling by the Supreme Court in Haynes v. United States.....

And how does a registration help to stop or solve crimes...when the shooters didn't buy the guns...didn't register the guns and either stole them or got them from a straw buyer?

Do you realize that Canada already tried to register their long guns....and had to give it up...?

So what you want to do, register guns, doesn't stop gun crime, doesn't solve gun crime, doesn't apply to actual criminals, and has already failed wherever it has been tried...

Canada...

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.

Your description of the Haynes case is fake news .

You don't seriously believe all these illegal guns were stolen.!?

The majority of crime guns come from straw purchases......criminals do not trust strangers because they may be undercover law enforcement so they rely on girlfriends, mothers, grandmothers and other people they pay to buy the guns for them...making background checks useless....

They also steal guns from homes and cars...especially drug addicts who regularly break into homes for drug money, they sell any guns they find for cash for drugs...making background checks useless...

And they also buy guns from other criminals.....who have already stolen or have already bought the guns from their own straw buyers...making background checks useless......


How is Haynes v. United States fake news? You understand that it is an actual Supreme Court case with an actual ruling..right?

Tell me how exempting criminals from registering their guns...while forcing law abiding people to register their guns...makes any sense.....

Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia

As with many other 5th amendment cases, felons and others prohibited from possessing firearms could not be compelled to incriminate themselves through registration.[1][2] The National Firearms Act was amended after Haynes to make it apply only to those who could lawfully possess a firearm. This eliminated prosecution of prohibited persons, such as criminals, and cured the self-incrimination problem.