Zone1 If Jesus Was A Jew

[zaangalewa]

beautiful----was that Beatrice?

You do not know Loreena McKennit? I would call that an education gap. And Humboldt would agree if he would be still alive.

 

[irosie91]

You do not know Loreena McKennit? I would call that an education gap. And Humboldt would agree if he would be still alive.

right---I fail Jeopardy in prominent persons (also geography)

 

[hadit]

That’s an impossible concept for a Jew. Human beings are not deities. And of course, to a Jew, there is only one deity, Gd.

Two different religions, two different belief systems.

Do you believe that Gd has a son?

 

[Meriweather]

Never heard of Fall of Man. I believe that’s a Christian concept.

Genesis Chapter 3 - Adam and Eve were ousted from the Garden of Eden after disobeying God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does Judaism teach that because of this, mankind needed God's redemption?

 

[rosends]

Genesis Chapter 3 - Adam and Eve were ousted from the Garden of Eden after disobeying God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does Judaism teach that because of this, mankind needed God's redemption?

no. Adam and Eve were sent out because in their new nature (having internalized the idea of evil) they could not stay in the garden. This change in humanity does require that we work to improve ourselves, but it is not considered a "fall" nor does it put us in a position of needing "redemption."

 

[Lisa558]

Genesis Chapter 3 - Adam and Eve were ousted from the Garden of Eden after disobeying God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does Judaism teach that because of this, mankind needed God's redemption?

I think you’re talking about Original Sin? We do not have this concept.

Now that I understand what you’re talking about (you can see how the entire concept is foreign to me), I can tell you that Jews do not teach this whole idea that man is born sinful. That is a Christian concept.

So no….there is no need for “redemption” due to what you call Fall of Man. I’m not even sure what you mean be redemption. Judaism focuses more on the idea of atonement, in that one should recognize his own sins, vow not to repeat it, and take some positive action (if possible) to make up for it.

 

[Lisa558]

no. Adam and Eve were sent out because in their new nature (having internalized the idea of evil) they could not stay in the garden. This change in humanity does require that we work to improve ourselves, but it is not considered a "fall" nor does it put us in a position of needing "redemption."

I figured out what she was talking about: Original Sin.

 

[Lisa558]

Do you believe that Gd has a son?

Is this a real question? I’m Jewish!

 

[hadit]

Is this a real question? I’m Jewish!

Because in Proverbs 30 you are asked if you know His name. Do you know His name?

4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell

 

[rosends]

Because in Proverbs 30 you are asked if you know His name. Do you know His name?

4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell

those are rhetorical questions asked by the speaker bemoaning his attempts to try and understand the nature of God ("I have not learned wisdom, that I should desire to have the knowledge of the holy.")

 

[braalian]

Then why aren't Christians Jewish? I don't get it.

There’s a lot that you don’t get, isn’t there?

 

[irosie91]

Genesis Chapter 3 - Adam and Eve were ousted from the Garden of Eden after disobeying God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does Judaism teach that because of this, mankind needed God's redemption?

Imo---the simple answer is NO. The idea that man, as a whole, has inherited a burden of sin from Adam and Eve, is, IMO, uniquely christian

 

[hadit]

those are rhetorical questions asked by the speaker bemoaning his attempts to try and understand the nature of God ("I have not learned wisdom, that I should desire to have the knowledge of the holy.")

He specifically mentions God's son. Whether you believe the question rhetorical or not, it clearly means that the writer believes God has a son. If he, as an observant Jew who fervently believes God does NOT have a son, he would never have put it in there.

 

[rosends]

He specifically mentions God's son. Whether you believe the question rhetorical or not, it clearly means that the writer believes God has a son. If he, as an observant Jew who fervently believes God does NOT have a son, he would never have put it in there.

He specifically mentions the questions that represent his foolish attempt to understand God.

As the Steinzaltz text explains, "Nevertheless, I would like to understand a few points: Who went up to heaven and then came down? Who gathered the wind in his fists? Who bound water in his garment? This is a reference to the clouds, which are spread across the sky like garments. Who established and built up all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if you know? The answer to these questions is that there is no human being who could do such things. It is all the work of God, about whom it is impossible to know many details. All I know is that God is the omnipotent Master of the world."

 

[hadit]

He specifically mentions the questions that represent his foolish attempt to understand God.

As the Steinzaltz text explains, "Nevertheless, I would like to understand a few points: Who went up to heaven and then came down? Who gathered the wind in his fists? Who bound water in his garment? This is a reference to the clouds, which are spread across the sky like garments. Who established and built up all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if you know? The answer to these questions is that there is no human being who could do such things. It is all the work of God, about whom it is impossible to know many details. All I know is that God is the omnipotent Master of the world."

You would have to understand the mind of the Jew of his day who would NEVER have even mentioned God's son if he didn't believe God had one, because to do so would be blasphemy.

 

[irosie91]

He specifically mentions God's son. Whether you believe the question rhetorical or not, it clearly means that the writer believes God has a son. If he, as an observant Jew who fervently believes God does NOT have a son, he would never have put it in there.

in them thar days PEOPLE were identified by their NAMES and their family
relationships. They did not have social security numbers. THE ID was
Y son of _______ or X daughter of or wife of _ or father of
________ or mother of ________ These appellations are still used to a limited
extent by jews and even more by arabs. For more specific ID---place of
origin gets thrown in. The name MASRY for arabs means originating in
Egypt. The name Yerushalami for jews means orginating in Jerusalem,
Mizrachi means orginating from THE EAST, Ashkenazi originating in
Europe etc etc etc. Abu Mazen (president of "palestine" means he's
got a son name "mazen" etc etc etc. In english JOHNSON, once upon
a time meant----SON OF JOHN get it? ----then there is the really
confusing Russian system-----""OVITCH""" Ivanovitch means someone
back there was the son of Ivan

 

[rosends]

You would have to understand the mind of the Jew of his day who would NEVER have even mentioned God's son if he didn't believe God had one, because to do so would be blasphemy.

Actually, it would not be blasphemy under Jewish law. The Jewish texts also mention God's right hand. Does that mean that you think that normative Jewish thought says God has hands?

And I think I have a better sense of the mind of a Jew at that time than you do, so I'll stick with my learning over your supposition.

 

[Meriweather]

no. Adam and Eve were sent out because in their new nature (having internalized the idea of evil) they could not stay in the garden. This change in humanity does require that we work to improve ourselves, but it is not considered a "fall" nor does it put us in a position of needing "redemption."

I think you’re talking about Original Sin? We do not have this concept.

Now that I understand what you’re talking about (you can see how the entire concept is foreign to me), I can tell you that Jews do not teach this whole idea that man is born sinful. That is a Christian concept.

So no….there is no need for “redemption” due to what you call Fall of Man. I’m not even sure what you mean be redemption. Judaism focuses more on the idea of atonement, in that one should recognize his own sins, vow not to repeat it, and take some positive action (if possible) to make up for it.

I'm interested in perceptions of the first disobedience to God that occurred in the Garden of Eden that was the cause of Adam and Eve leaving. Is it the Jewish perception that this disobedience wasn't a big deal, life would go on, and God didn't really care one way or the other if the two had obeyed or disobeyed. Nor did He care--nor does He care--whether the descendants of Adam and Eve are obedient or disobedient. It's just doesn't matter all that much, and no one needs any help/direction from God in the choices they make on how to live life here on Earth.

 

[rosends]

I'm interested in perceptions of the first disobedience to God that occurred in the Garden of Eden that was the cause of Adam and Eve leaving. Is it the Jewish perception that this disobedience wasn't a big deal, life would go on, and God didn't really care one way or the other if the two had obeyed or disobeyed. Nor did He care--nor does He care--whether the descendants of Adam and Eve are obedient or disobedient. It's just doesn't matter all that much, and no one needs any help/direction from God in the choices they make on how to live life here on Earth.

No. The act by Eve and Adam was a very big deal. God did and does care and guides us, daily, to do the right thing.

 

[irosie91]

I'm interested in perceptions of the first disobedience to God that occurred in the Garden of Eden that was the cause of Adam and Eve leaving. Is it the Jewish perception that this disobedience wasn't a big deal, life would go on, and God didn't really care one way or the other if the two had obeyed or disobeyed. Nor did He care--nor does He care--whether the descendants of Adam and Eve are obedient or disobedient. It's just doesn't matter all that much, and no one needs any help/direction from God in the choices they make on how to live life here on Earth.

IMO---the lesson of Genesis---(garden >> apple>> cain/abel>>> is
CHOICE---more specifically the imperative CHOOSE LIFE