If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[Pop23]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

It proves that you have a really strange hobby

Try knitting, you could make a nifty sweater

 

[daws101]

The Snook I'm having for dinner is just fine.

is that a dodge or do have a condition?

Are you really that thick?
Snook is a fish.
I don't need your Red Herring.
I wasn't talking to you and, besides, you didn't answer the question either

1. you wish was I was.
2. I haven't fished since I was 8 so your reference is meaningless
4. god is a red herring.
5. i did answer the question.

 

[Smilebong]

Are you really that thick?
Snook is a fish.
I don't need your Red Herring.
I wasn't talking to you and, besides, you didn't answer the question either

That is how people who do not want to deal with the question react.

For my part, I understand the question, and I applaud you for taking the bull by the horns. I guess I would approach it differently.

I would say, God says that every man will answer for himself at the last judgemnt. HOw will you answer? Will you stand on your own merits, hoping that your good is good enough to impress God? Or will you realize, along with me, that we are all hopeless wretches at the core, and throw yourself at the feet of Jesus, who suffered eternal torments so you could escape eternal torments?

I'll stand on my own heart, soul, mind and deeds if I find myself waking up from my death bed in Gods hall of judgement.



Yup. I'm THAT sure He's imaginary.

I'm certainly not that stupid.... I know me!

Not much more to discuss then. Since you read the bible, and seem to know all that needs to be known, I will leave you to yourself. I pray God has mercy on you.

 

[daws101]

is that a dodge or do have a condition?

Are you really that thick?
Snook is a fish.
I don't need your Red Herring.
I wasn't talking to you and, besides, you didn't answer the question either

That is how people who do not want to deal with the question react.

For my part, I understand the question, and I applaud you for taking the bull by the horns. I guess I would approach it differently.

I would say, God says that every man will answer for himself at the last judgemnt. HOw will you answer? Will you stand on your own merits, hoping that your good is good enough to impress God? Or will you realize, along with me, that we are all hopeless wretches at the core, and throw yourself at the feet of Jesus, who suffered eternal torments so you could escape eternal torments?

another false assumer.
I understood the question, fact is it's not really a question..it a leading statement with only one suitable answer due to the questioners' bias..
I answered in a way that questions the presumption of the great sky fairy..
I'll answer your statement the same way...worst dialog ever ..hokey!

 

[daws101]

Have you ever, honestly, opened yourself up to having that relationship?

"Seek and ye shall find"

more inane dialog from the worst script ever written.
george clooney would have a hard time making that not sound hokey!

It ain't that hokey - I once bought in to it hook, line and sinker.

lol! it happens to all of us!
for me it was charlotte's web..my 5th grade teacher read it to the class and I bawled like a girl.

 

[Agent.Tom]

1. God (if He exists) is a failure because He hasn't yet revealed Himself to AVG-JOE.
2. God is required to have revealed Himself to AVG-JOE by now.

1. Yes. This thread is all about me and my choice to believe that the God of Abraham is fictitious in spite of the ancient stories.

Your choice of disbelief doesn't make God a failure. You're free to create a hundred "all about me" threads... but if you make baseless assumptions, you will be called out on it.

2. Of course God is required to reveal himself to me! How else are we supposed to have a 'relationship'?

A. God is not required to do anything, no matter how many temper tantrums you throw.
B. God is not required to reveal Himself to you by now in order for you to know Him in your lifetime. God waited 37 years to reveal Himself to me, and I recall shaking my fist at Him for most of those years as well. Though the fist-shaking was figurative since I didn't believe in the least.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's now a 'baseless assumption' to question religion?


The baseless assumption in religion is that any of the ancient stories are somehow 'Divinely inspired'.


So... inquiring minds want to know... what's your basis for assuming I'm wrong? What is your 'Proof of God'?

 

[Pop23]

Would be impossible to prove God exists

Unless of course, the God would want it to be so

That might not be such a good thing though.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The impossibility of proving the existence of the God of Abraham is one of the foundations for my considering Him to be fictitious.

There are ancient stories that reflect a willingness on the part of that God to reveal Himself in the past - why did He stop?

 

[BreezeWood]

The impossibility of proving the existence of the God of Abraham is one of the foundations for my considering Him to be fictitious.

There are ancient stories that reflect a willingness on the part of that God to reveal Himself in the past - why did He stop?

...

The Crucifixion was a triumph of Injustice and should be corrected, maybe that is what the Deity is waiting for ..... a reason to reappear.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The impossibility of proving the existence of the God of Abraham is one of the foundations for my considering Him to be fictitious.

^ that seems to be akin to the following syllogism:

I cannot prove that God exists.

Therefore God does NOT exist.​

(I suppose the suppressed premise would be "No thing which cannot be proved exists.")

If the foregoing analog is fair and accurate, then does anybody else see a problem with the Avg-Joe thesis?

 

[Pop23]

The impossibility of proving the existence of the God of Abraham is one of the foundations for my considering Him to be fictitious.

There are ancient stories that reflect a willingness on the part of that God to reveal Himself in the past - why did He stop?

Because he wanted too

I guess that's just how God rolls

You can complain about it I guess, but remember, God put that complaint in your head

I have no idea why. I guess that just takes me out of the realm of the possible people who might be God.

But I still might be Vice God or 2nd runner-up?

 

[AVG-JOE]

​

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let me try it without the suppressed premise being all suppressed:

No thing which cannot be proved exists.

I cannot prove that God exists.

∴ Therefore God does NOT exist.​

ALTERNATIVE form:

ONLY those things which can be proved actually exist.

It cannot be proved that God exists.

∴ Therefore God does NOT actually exist.​

Ok, AVG-JOE. How do these variations of the syllogism differ from your argument?

Do they differ from your argument, really?

 

[daws101]

there is no evidence for or against the existence of god .
I think they call that a push...
or Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.
The fallaciousness of arguments from ignorance does not mean that one can never possess good reasons for thinking that something does not exist, an idea captured by philosopher Bertrand Russell's teapot, a hypothetical china teapot revolving about the sun between Earth and Mars; however this would fall more duly under the arena of pragmatism[vague], wherein a position must be demonstrated or proven in order to be upheld, and therefore the burden of proof is on the argument's proponent.[citation needed] See also Occam's razor (assume simplicity over complexity).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_evidence#Absence_of_evidence

 

[Caroljo]

That was the final proof that I needed to let Jesus go five plus years ago.



Free at last, free at last, thank (insert your preferred Deity here) Almighty I'm free at last!!

`​

Just because He didn't STRIKE YOU DOWN for doing that "now"....doesn't mean you won't pay for it later. It's in Gods time, not yours

 

[Caroljo]

Not if I'm still here these many years after.

You're time isn't the same as Gods. He's in no hurry, why should he be? He just may have not decided on your punishment, or may it's just not time. Don't blow your horn yet.....

 

[daws101]

That was the final proof that I needed to let Jesus go five plus years ago.



Free at last, free at last, thank (insert your preferred Deity here) Almighty I'm free at last!!

`​

Just because He didn't STRIKE YOU DOWN for doing that "now"....doesn't mean you won't pay for it later. It's in Gods time, not yours

so if AJ is hit by a bus you will falsely assume that it was god's handy work..?

 

[AVG-JOE]

3rd choice

there is no evidence for or against the existence of god .
I think they call that a push...
or Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.
The fallaciousness of arguments from ignorance does not mean that one can never possess good reasons for thinking that something does not exist, an idea captured by philosopher Bertrand Russell's teapot, a hypothetical china teapot revolving about the sun between Earth and Mars; however this would fall more duly under the arena of pragmatism[vague], wherein a position must be demonstrated or proven in order to be upheld, and therefore the burden of proof is on the argument's proponent.[citation needed] See also Occam's razor (assume simplicity over complexity).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_evidence#Absence_of_evidence

D. All of the above.


I've been telling y'all from the beginning... it's all about delving in to the privacy of your own mind with all the fluid theories and guesses you care to include in your analysis and deciding this shit for yourself at THIS moment embedded in Father Time.

Religion and Ethics: It's all about me. As it should be for you.

All together now:

"Religious beliefs are like nipples... every Monkey has a set and no two sets are exactly alike."​

Is the plethora of choices with full mix, match and personalize capabilities a symptom of a fictitious God, or just more evidence?

​

 

[Caroljo]

That was the final proof that I needed to let Jesus go five plus years ago.



Free at last, free at last, thank (insert your preferred Deity here) Almighty I'm free at last!!

`​

Just because He didn't STRIKE YOU DOWN for doing that "now"....doesn't mean you won't pay for it later. It's in Gods time, not yours

so if AJ is hit by a bus you will falsely assume that it was god's handy work..?

No...how would I know? Just like if he woke up one day and found out he has 2 months to live...or if something happened to him financially, or any other "disaster". I have no idea what God's plan is for him....maybe nothing will happen and he'll one day face God for judgement. Wouldn't want to be him then either......