Zone1 If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[ding]

there is nothing duplicitous about the heavenly goal and religion of antiquity only six words in length - too bad you chose the crucifiers 10000 pg christian bible.

It's about loving God. Do you love God?

 

[Crepitus]

Jesus taught that rules don't matter

Yeah, I didn't read that in the bible.

And I'm thinking neither did you.

 

[ding]

Yeah, I didn't read that in the bible.

And I'm thinking neither did you.

Jesus summarized all laws as loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. Try googling it.

 

[Meriweather]

You guys won't answer the question because the answer according to your theology is that I go to hell for eternal punishment which would prove my meme correct.

So keep weaseling if that's what it take to support your faith, I don't care.

We do not answer the question that is not ours to answer. What happens to you when it comes to eternity is between you and God. If you want nothing to do with God now, why would you want anything to do with God later? Try to consider existence as being eternal. What comes next, once you say good-bye to this life? Perhaps remember what it was like when you said good-bye to childhood and planned your adult life. What preparations did you make?

Jesus taught that the Kingdom of heaven begins right now in this life and extends on into eternity. He taught Kingdom living, so I've tried Kingdom living in the here and now--and like it very much. I want to continue living in God's Kingdom when I pass from this life. I want--and would be honored to--know God, love God, and serve God. Every day I ask myself, "But do I want it badly enough? How is kingdom living progressing today?" (Most days, not as well as it could be.)

I don't know what you are working towards/planning for when it comes to eternity. I don't know what my eternity will be like--how can I know yours or anyone's?

Ask God. Ask God what you can expect when you pass from this life. (It may help to be able to name what you have given this life.)

 

[Meriweather]

Yeah, I didn't read that in the bible.

And I'm thinking neither did you.

Love God and neighbor. What is hateful to you, do not do to another. That is the whole Law. The rest is mere commentary.

 

[ding]

Love God and neighbor. What is hateful to you, do not do to another. That is the whole Law. The rest is mere commentary.

These guys put a lot of effort into throwing up road blocks.

 

[Clyde 154]

the 4th century christian bible - uses jesus - for their purposes, false commandments et al than what were the 1st century events those people gave their lives for, liberation theology, self determination.

Again with the Roman Empire's corruption of the original manuscripts? Repeating the same diatribe over and over does not preclude the existence of the original N.T. canon based upon the scientific method of comparative analysis.

What Rome included in its false doctrine that did not exist in the original canon actually communicated by the Apostles of Christ?

1. Prayers dedicated to Mary (600 A.D.) 2. Celibacy for Priesthood as a doctrinal command (1079 A.D.) 3. Bible forbidden to the lay people (1229 A.D.) 4. Original Sin, not mentioned in the bible....children are born innocent. 5. Forgiveness of sin comes from confessing to a Catholic Priest. 6. Sprinkling for baptism 7. Special clothing for the clergy.......dressing like the Jews did in order to impress.

There are a great many more practices not authorized by the actual content of the Holy Bible.

 

[ding]

There are a great many more practices not authorized by the actual content of the Holy Bible.

Like prayers for saints (of which there are thousands)?

Prayers for saints are petitions asking these holy individuals to intercede with God on a believer's behalf, rather than worshipping them directly. These prayers seek guidance, imitation of their virtues, or specific aid, often highlighting their role as "cloud of witnesses". They are rooted in the belief that saints, as friends of God in heaven, can pray for us. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Common Types of Prayers to Saints

• Intercession Requests: Asking a saint to bring a specific need before God, such as "St. Anthony, please help me find..." or "St. Jude, pray for my desperate situation". [1, 2]
• Patron Saint Prayers: Prayers directed to a saint responsible for a specific cause, such as St. Gerard for expectant mothers or St. Joseph for workers. [1, 2, 3]

 

[ding]

Original Sin, not mentioned in the bible....children are born innocent.

The concept is sound as long as one does not read Genesis literally.

The doctrine of original sin was primarily developed and formally defined by Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD) in the early 5th century, in response to the teachings of Pelagius. While rooted in earlier Christian interpretations of St. Paul's letters (Romans 5:12) and the fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis, it was Augustine who first used the phrase "original sin" and established it as a foundational, inherited sinful state. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key aspects of the concept's development:

• Theological Foundation: Augustine argued that all humanity was present in Adam and thus "sinned in him," inheriting both the guilt and penalty of his sin.
• Official Recognition: The doctrine was officially adopted by the Western Church following the Council of Carthage (411–418 AD).
  • Earlier Influences: While Augustine is the primary architect, precursors to the idea appeared in the 2nd century with Irenaeus of Lyons and in the works of Tertullian.
  • Distinction: The concept was relatively unknown in the Eastern Church, which focused more on "ancestral sin"—inheriting the mortality and consequences of the Fall, rather than the inherited guilt of the act itself. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The idea of a sinful state inherited from Adam also appears in non-canonical Jewish literature, such as 2 Esdras, which predates Augustinian theology. [1]

 

[Meriweather]

1. Prayers dedicated to Mary (600 A.D.)

The early Church was honoring, venerating, asking for intercession of Saints long before 600 A.D. There were prayers dedicated to the Apostles, after they had died, asking for intercessions. By 167 A.D., relics of martyrs were also honored.

2. Celibacy for Priesthood as a doctrinal command (1079 A.D.)

Long before this, beginning in the the early church, married priests were expected to abstain from sex after ordination. By the 300s, some priests were required to live apart from their wives--and priests could not marry after they had been ordained. Christianity did not become a State religion in Rome until 380.

3. Bible forbidden to the lay people (1229 A.D.)

No. In the early Church, lay people, both men and women were, in fact, encouraged to read the Bible. The date you reference when is when the Church refused to authorized inaccurate vernacular translations from the original Greek, Latin, Hebrew.

4. Original Sin, not mentioned in the bible....children are born innocent.

Children are born with human nature, and this can be seen from birth. People want/insist their needs be met. Anyone with a newborn can verify this. From birth we grow being concerned with only our own needs/wants and help others with their own needs/wants.

5. Forgiveness of sin comes from confessing to a Catholic Priest.

Forgiveness comes from God and the repentance of sins. Just as people came to Jesus to hear him forgive their sins, so they continued to come to the Apostles to hear their sins are forgiven. Have you ever been to confession and heard the words, "Your sins are forgiven"? Remember, people came to Jesus and the Apostles to be baptized, as well. They gathered with the Apostles to celebrate the Last Supper. They came to the Apostles to be confirmed in the faith, just as the Apostles had been on Pentecost. They also came for healing, to be ordained. The seven sacraments, as they came to be called, began with Jesus, during his life.

6. Sprinkling for baptism

There is no "sprinkling" for baptism. Baptism occurs in living water, and areas where water came from wells, living water was poured on people being baptized, and this pouring is still a valid option today. One of the murals in the catacombs is of a person being baptized. He is standing in water, and nearby is the large shell used to pour water over him.

7. Special clothing for the clergy.......dressing like the Jews did in order to impress.

When fashioned changed....trousers instead of robes...the Early Church decided to keep with the tradition (which was becoming very old-fashioned) of robes. Those who were embracing modern trousers, were not impressed by old fogies who continued to dress in robes.


Fifteen hundred years after Christ, Protestants decided to dismiss/erase all early Church history, even books in the Bible in use at the time of Christ, and go their own way. What they don't have a right to do is change, even erase, early Church history. What is wrong with saying that Protestants left early Church/Apostolic practices and modernized scripture to their own standards and dismissed the early Church practices/traditions in favor of an update? Be honest. Say that you changed practices/traditions of the Early Church to something you believe is better. And by "Early Church" I mean prior to Roman acceptance of the Church in 380.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's about loving God. Do you love God?

no that is not what heaven is about, it's their goal for judgement and admission the triumph of good vs evil -

ill let you know who i love if ever i have a disposition to tell you. there is no one god, all in the heavens are equal - no exclusions.

 

[BreezeWood]

We do not answer the question that is not ours to answer.

then answer why you have in all three desert bibles madeup commandments said by you to be heavenly used to persecute and victimize the innocent if it is only between them and your equally phony god.

 

[ding]

no that is not what heaven is about, it's their goal for judgement and admission the triumph of good vs evil -ill let you know who i love if ever i have a disposition to tell you.

It's about loving God. Do you love God?

there is no one god, all in the heavens are equal - no exclusions.

How do you know?

 

[ding]

then answer why you have in all three desert bibles madeup commandments said by you to be heavenly used to persecute and victimize the innocent if it is only between them and your equally phony god.

LIve in the present. No one is being persecuted by Christians.

 

[ding]

then answer why you have in all three desert bibles madeup commandments said by you to be heavenly used to persecute and victimize the innocent if it is only between them and your equally phony god.

Putting your logical fallacy strawman aside, standards exist for logical reasons. Just because a standard exists, doesn't mean that it will always be met. The standard is not negated by failure to meet the standard.

 

[Crepitus]

Jesus summarized all laws as loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. Try googling it.

So it's not in there they way you said it was then.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's about loving God. Do you love God?

no that is not what heaven is about, it's their goal for judgement and admission - the triumph of good vs evil.

then answer why you have in all three desert bibles madeup commandments said by you to be heavenly used to persecute and victimize the innocent if it is only between them and your equally phony god.

that answer, the one you have no answer for and are willing to jeopardize the everlasting for than to make the heavenly correction and remove the vial commandments from all three desert religions.

what in fact those sinners deserve to never be admitted to the everlasting.

 

[Clyde 154]

The concept is sound as long as one does not read Genesis literally.

The doctrine of original sin was primarily developed and formally defined by Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD) in the early 5th century, in response to the teachings of Pelagius. While rooted in earlier Christian interpretations of St. Paul's letters (Romans 5:12) and the fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis, it was Augustine who first used the phrase "original sin" and established it as a foundational, inherited sinful state. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key aspects of the concept's development:

• Theological Foundation: Augustine argued that all humanity was present in Adam and thus "sinned in him," inheriting both the guilt and penalty of his sin.
• Official Recognition:The doctrine was officially adopted by the Western Church following the Council of Carthage (411–418 AD).
  • Earlier Influences: While Augustine is the primary architect, precursors to the idea appeared in the 2nd century with Irenaeus of Lyons and in the works of Tertullian.
  • Distinction: The concept was relatively unknown in the Eastern Church, which focused more on "ancestral sin"—inheriting the mortality and consequences of the Fall, rather than the inherited guilt of the act itself. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The idea of a sinful state inherited from Adam also appears in non-canonical Jewish literature, such as 2 Esdras, which predates Augustinian theology. [1

No where in scripture are the words "original sin" found. There are 4 facts found in scripture that are fatal to the false doctrine of original sin.... everyone is born with inherited sin.

1. If everyone is born into SIN.........since the Christ was "born of a woman and born under the Law......." -- Gal. 4:4 He therefore must have been born WITH SIN/Transgression for the Laws of God. But the scriptures clearly state that Jesus Christ was born without sin, as He lived His entire earthly life from cradle to grave without sin. (1 Peter 2:22, 2:24......The Christ had no sin

2. John (an inspired Apostle of Christ), declares sin as " ....the transgression of the law (God's Laws)" -- 1 John 3:4. One must commit a sin in order to transgress (what sin are children born with when they are totally dependent upon the thoughts and actions of others for at least a decade after birth?) "All unrighteousness is sin..." -- 1 John 5:17. Anyone who works against the will and the Word of God is guilty of sinning. (No child, born without cognition to reason cannot break any law of God).

3. No where in scripture does God describe the forgivness of inherited sin. In contrast the scriptures speak of "YOUR SINS" and "THY SINS" The scriptures command us to TURN AWAY form our sins as the first act of forgivness (no one can TURN AWAY form their own birth) -- Acts 3:19, 22:16

4. Man is judged by how he/she has lived, not how they were born. (Gal. 6:7-9) Each person will be judged by what they have done......not by birth "......then He (Jesus/God/The Godhead) will repay each person according to what he has done (actions of living)" -- Matt.16:27. And the books (the Holy Scriptures were opened and each life is compared to that which is recorded in the book of life (Rev. 20:12)

The only possible way for original sin (if the term existed) to be applied to mankind is to accept the fact found in THE BOOKS OF GENESIS. The original sin that Adam is responsible for is bringing DEATH upon all his ancestral lineage from Genesis forward (to include Jesus Christ who was born as a human, lived as a human and died as a human)......".....who humbled Himself, being in the form of God.......and became as a man, to the death (Phil. 2:6-8)

"Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world (this happened after Adam was created, not before), and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for all HAVE SINNED (an action/transgression against God's laws)." -- Romans 5:12

 

[ding]

No where in scripture are the words "original sin" found. There are 4 facts found in scripture that are fatal to the false doctrine of original sin.... everyone is born with inherited sin.

1. If everyone is born into SIN.........since the Christ was "born of a woman and born under the Law......." -- Gal. 4:4 He therefore must have been born WITH SIN/Transgression for the Laws of God. But the scriptures clearly state that Jesus Christ was born without sin, as He lived His entire earthly life from cradle to grave without sin. (1 Peter 2:22, 2:24......The Christ had no sin

2. John (an inspired Apostle of Christ), declares sin as " ....the transgression of the law (God's Laws)" -- 1 John 3:4. One must commit a sin in order to transgress (what sin are children born with when they are totally dependent upon the thoughts and actions of others for at least a decade after birth?) "All unrighteousness is sin..." -- 1 John 5:17. Anyone who works against the will and the Word of God is guilty of sinning. (No child, born without cognition to reason cannot break any law of God).

3. No where in scripture does God describe the forgivness of inherited sin. In contrast the scriptures speak of "YOUR SINS" and "THY SINS" The scriptures command us to TURN AWAY form our sins as the first act of forgivness (no one can TURN AWAY form their own birth) -- Acts 3:19, 22:16

4. Man is judged by how he/she has lived, not how they were born. (Gal. 6:7-9) Each person will be judged by what they have done......not by birth "......then He (Jesus/God/The Godhead) will repay each person according to what he has done (actions of living)" -- Matt.16:27. And the books (the Holy Scriptures were opened and each life is compared to that which is recorded in the book of life (Rev. 20:12)

The only possible way for original sin (if the term existed) to be applied to mankind is to accept the fact found in THE BOOKS OF GENESIS. The original sin that Adam is responsible for is bringing DEATH upon all his ancestral lineage from Genesis forward (to include Jesus Christ who was born as a human, lived as a human and died as a human)......".....who humbled Himself, being in the form of God.......and became as a man, to the death (Phil. 2:6-8)

"Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world (this happened after Adam was created, not before), and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for all HAVE SINNED (an action/transgression against God's laws)." -- Romans 5:12

In Judaism it's known as the yetzer ha-ra which is that humans are born with an evil inclination. Pretty much the same difference.

 

[ding]

So it's not in there they way you said it was then.

Sure it is. You're just looking for excuses to be a putz.