“If God does not exist, then all things are permitted.”

[Bonzi]

... agree or disagree? .... and why?

Well it just becomes a question of authority. If God exists then things may or may not be permitted according to heavenly authority. If God does not exists those same things may or may not be permitted but the authority becomes society.

Now here is one thing I will agree with atheists about. One should not require God in order to do the right thing. Nor should we need God to tell us what the right thing is. These should be very simple to figure out in regard to what individual actions benefit society and which do not.

But no....all things do not suddenly become ok in the absence of God

Most people feel like they do the right thing.

In fact, when I was an atheist, I felt I was BETTER than a Christian because I did the right thing of my own accord, not because I was afraid of God or trying to earn my way to Heaven.

The OP question on the table actually points to the assumption that "we behave because God tells us we have to behave".

In reality, when you become a Christian, GOD changes you! (you don't change yourself)
It's not something you do on your own, and, it's impossible to explain to someone that has not experienced it.

At least it is for me....

 

[Bonzi]

This is not a court of law or the debate club.
God is not a topic for debate, that frustrates you which I understand.

It was you who opened the door to legal principles by impugning the laws of man.

And it is very much a topic of debate, that you're frustrated with your inability to advance your position in a reasoned, logical manner is not justification to call it otherwise.

The laws of man are more fair than the laws of God

And more real.

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

 

[Bonzi]

As I told you before, all evil in the world is our own doing.
Lack of obedience ruined it from the beginning and lack of submission and obedience to God continues be ruinous to us today.....

No Father wants their child to be submissive their entire life.What warped sect to you belong to?

What's wrong with submitting to someone?
Especially the Almighty Father who loves you unconditionally?

Why, because there is no need for postulation......If God loves unconditionally then no conditions could exist for making God love you more...one thing that I laugh at is the contradictions of religions...

There is no religion. Only God and salvation through Christ.
God loves you perfectly and completely.
What conditions for God's love have you heard about?

Does the new testament ring any bells?

God IS love. Your definition of love doesn't hold water in a discussion about God and his plan of salvation.

 

[Bonzi]

God exists. Without Him anything goes, which is why the Left dupes many into believing He is fiction, while ridiculing anyone who believes.

This fails as an appeal to consequences fallacy.

Certain theists are ridiculed because of their inability to engage in reasoned, critical thinking, such as you've demonstrated, not because they believe.

This is not a court of law or the debate club.
God is not a topic for debate, that frustrates you which I understand.

Your god is not a topic for debate because he doesn't exist.

The laws, as Clayton so succinctly explained, are all inventions of mankind as are the religions and the thousands of gods to go along with them.

You have a right to believe that and speak your mind.
There is ZERO chance I will agree with it, because it's just not true.

Acts 5:29 - "we must obey God rather than man"

 

[Bonzi]

Regarding last days........... verse 7. applies to many here......

2 Timothy 3:2-7
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[September]

As much as many would like to believe how they are in control of their own world, we have 0 control over everything or anything someone else does, or what happens .
The only thing that we have control over is how we react to a situation.

One human being can have enormous control over the things other people do... and what may happen as a result. It's called manipulation...​

 

[Moonglow]

No Father wants their child to be submissive their entire life.What warped sect to you belong to?

What's wrong with submitting to someone?
Especially the Almighty Father who loves you unconditionally?

Why, because there is no need for postulation......If God loves unconditionally then no conditions could exist for making God love you more...one thing that I laugh at is the contradictions of religions...

There is no religion. Only God and salvation through Christ.
God loves you perfectly and completely.
What conditions for God's love have you heard about?

Does the new testament ring any bells?

God IS love. Your definition of love doesn't hold water in a discussion about God and his plan of salvation.

There is no need for salvation if you are loved unconditionally... That is a construct of Christians...You also use the name of God to represent Jesus, yet Jesus never claimed to be his Father in Heaven, that is a creation by the Roman Catholics to conform to a mono-theist religion existence...What the philosophy of Christ did was to break the barrier between earlier religions and the clergy or priest that were the middle men between worshipers and their God of Judaism...
There is no concrete proof, only a faith that the words are true and actually from your God. The religion of Christianity does not make people any better than an non-believer which leads a wholesome life of someone that has never heard or read of your religion..Christianity has no more proof of attaining Heaven than did the religion of Ancient Egypt..or reincarnation of Hinduism..

 

[Moonglow]

It was you who opened the door to legal principles by impugning the laws of man.

And it is very much a topic of debate, that you're frustrated with your inability to advance your position in a reasoned, logical manner is not justification to call it otherwise.

The laws of man are more fair than the laws of God

And more real.

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, our society is more moral than the society advocated in the Bible

So much for needing God

Pfft...I think you dramatically overestimate the morality in society today. I don't think we have evolved morally very much at all in the last several thousand years.

The Bible permits slavery, approves of capital punishment and the persecution of homosexuals

Sounds alot like ISIS

 

[Moonglow]

If we are to believe Christians then why do you not act like Christ? Why allow yourself the ability to act immoral or in a drunken state when obviously Christ did not, only to fall back upon the belief that you will get forgiveness of the sin by prayer, why not abstain from such actions before they are committed if you are religious? Surely Christ was not a person which allowed his emotive cognition to over ride his reasoning....

 

[Moonglow]

Actually, our society is more moral than the society advocated in the Bible

So much for needing God

Pfft...I think you dramatically overestimate the morality in society today. I don't think we have evolved morally very much at all in the last several thousand years.

The Bible permits slavery, approves of capital punishment and the persecution of homosexuals

Sounds alot like ISIS

And why is it they only use parts of the Bible to expound and not all of it?
And the whole Judian eschatology of revelations has come to pass, yet they try to apply it to today's existence...

 

[September]

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Totally godly​

 

[Moonglow]

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Totally godly​

Why yes it does...And what I find amusing is that Christians try to portray angels as being good, yet they are God's errand boys of death and destruction...Also notice how females are almost non-existent in the whole Godly construct? They were not needed or worthy of inclusion...

 

[Taz]

If god does not exist it changes nothing, he hadn't been proven to exist in the first place.

 

[foggedinn]

The laws of man are more fair than the laws of God

And more real.

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. Gen. Chap. 3 V 1

 

[Taz]

And more real.

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. Gen. Chap. 3 V 1

fogg, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again afterwards?

 

[Moonglow]

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. Gen. Chap. 3 V 1

fogg, how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and back again afterwards?

Not to mention the platypus....

 

[Moonglow]

And more real.

Nothing is more real than God or the things of God

You mean Jesus...

1 what, 3 who's. God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Many won't (don't) agree, but reference to Jesus and God is made throughout the Bible.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

So was the Devil born before Abraham....So does that make Satan godly in origin?

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. Gen. Chap. 3 V 1

Yet the origin of the use of the snake had more to do with local cult groups using it as a symbol....The Jews are notorious as were other groups of plagiarism...

 

[G.T.]

With OR without God everything is permitted.

Faulty thread premise.

If you're willing to face the consequences of your actions.....then there it is.

 

[Moonglow]

With OR without God everything is permitted.

Faulty thread premise.

If you're willing to face the consequences of your actions.....then there it is.

What ever you don't get married, the consequences can be devastating..lol