If Az is shown to have cheated...then what?

[forkup]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

If there's been any cheating in AZ, it's been by those holding an "audit" behind closed doors. I wouldn't give 2 cents for their conclusions. They probably had them written up before the audit started.

You do know attacking the source is a fallacy, right?

Oh really? Would you accept the results of an election audit that has, let's say Michael Moore for instance be in charge of it? I'm guessing no.

In fact I very much suspect that the very fact that he would be put in charge of it would tell you all you need to know about how much that audit was conducted in good faith.

No more than you'd accept Sean Hannity being in charge.. So stop the silliness..

I agree, it is silliness. Just like it's silliness to call it a fallacy when attacking a source. In this case, the source is a company that was hired by the Arizona GOP and this is its mission statement. Services - Cyber Ninjas

You will note it doesn't have anything to do with elections or manual recounts.

Led by a guy who said this.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

It would be a huge embarrassment for the courts and the challenges to any decision would be endless and probably last well into the next election so I doubt Biden would be removed. The biggest advantage would be a push to reform our elections and perhaps a drive for term limits on all politicians , as well as a requirement for real transparency and accountability of our politicians.

.

Nobody gives any credence to these Qunatic audits. They'll change nothing except for further embarrassing Trump's supporters.

 

[forkup]

It's a good question. I hear some saying that the important thing is to prevent it from happening again and that these forensic investigations are somehow bad for the republic. Nonsense. You have to expose everything illegal that happened in order to make sure it doesn't happen again. That means putting people in jail. The truth is the best thing for this republic. Anyway, what is the remedy in the case that eventually it is proven that enough votes were tampered with in enough states to have affected the election? Rescind all executive orders and have another election as soon as it is possible to ensure a tamper proof election. Same candidates. That is the only remedy.

So every election on the ballot will be overturned or are we just going to pick and choose?

Another good question. Yes, I think we pick and choose the fraudulent elections rather than rerun all states. Any state found to have tampering significant enough to have changed the results should have the entire ballot rerun, even if it would not have affected the national election. For example, if they investigate and only prove that the Georgia elections were tampered with significantly, they would have to fix that and rerun the entire Georgia ballot. I don't know how else we would regain confidence in the system. Doubtful anyone has the stomach for this so I don't see anything happening.

How do you suggest confidence can be regained when one party flat out rejects all conclusions that don't fit the narrative of massive fraud out of hand?

There have been multiple recounts, and audits, not to mention statements from the DOJ and many more things all debunking that voter fraud happened.

No matter who says it, no matter what the context the belief that "something" happened hasn't really diminished. It's very hard to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong especially when the amount of people who do believe in it is so large.

The DOJ has been compromised and therefore they can't be trusted.
The Left "flat out rejects" that there was any voter fraud.
Recounts of the same bogus ballots is worthless.
When we see the video of the same stack of ballots being recounted over and over, and boxes of ballots being counted after the Republican poll watchers have been sent home, and windows being covered, and the blocking of Voter ID laws, and anonymous mail-in ballots being used......there is plenty of room for doubt about the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
The Democrat Party is a crazy cult that believes its own lies.

Pretty convenient don't you think?
-BILL BARR puts out a statement that there was no widespread voter fraud. He's compromised.
-Republican nominated judges rule unfavorably on election challenges. They are compromised.
-Lawyers claiming Kraken's exist go before a judge and say that their claims are unreasonable in order to avoid a defamation suit. Has to mean they're compromised. Etc. Etc.

As I said you believe because you want to believe and as such can not be reasoned with.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

If? Then, hop on your unicorn and fly over the rainbow to Munchkinland, because you will be dreaming.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

It's a good question. I hear some saying that the important thing is to prevent it from happening again and that these forensic investigations are somehow bad for the republic. Nonsense. You have to expose everything illegal that happened in order to make sure it doesn't happen again. That means putting people in jail. The truth is the best thing for this republic. Anyway, what is the remedy in the case that eventually it is proven that enough votes were tampered with in enough states to have affected the election? Rescind all executive orders and have another election as soon as it is possible to ensure a tamper proof election. Same candidates. That is the only remedy.

So every election on the ballot will be overturned or are we just going to pick and choose?

Another good question. Yes, I think we pick and choose the fraudulent elections rather than rerun all states. Any state found to have tampering significant enough to have changed the results should have the entire ballot rerun, even if it would not have affected the national election. For example, if they investigate and only prove that the Georgia elections were tampered with significantly, they would have to fix that and rerun the entire Georgia ballot. I don't know how else we would regain confidence in the system. Doubtful anyone has the stomach for this so I don't see anything happening.

How do you suggest confidence can be regained when one party flat out rejects all conclusions that don't fit the narrative of massive fraud out of hand?

There have been multiple recounts, and audits, not to mention statements from the DOJ and many more things all debunking that voter fraud happened.

No matter who says it, no matter what the context the belief that "something" happened hasn't really diminished. It's very hard to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong especially when the amount of people who do believe in it is so large.

The DOJ has been compromised and therefore they can't be trusted.
The Left "flat out rejects" that there was any voter fraud.
Recounts of the same bogus ballots is worthless.
When we see the video of the same stack of ballots being recounted over and over, and boxes of ballots being counted after the Republican poll watchers have been sent home, and windows being covered, and the blocking of Voter ID laws, and anonymous mail-in ballots being used......there is plenty of room for doubt about the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
The Democrat Party is a crazy cult that believes its own lies.

Pretty convenient don't you think?
-BILL BARR puts out a statement that there was no widespread voter fraud. He's compromised.
-Republican nominated judges rule unfavorably on election challenges. They are compromised.
-Lawyers claiming Kraken's exist go before a judge and say that their claims are unreasonable in order to avoid a defamation suit. Has to mean they're compromised. Etc. Etc.

As I said you believe because you want to believe and as such can not be reasoned with.

Most Progressives are blind and obedient to the Corrupt Democrat Party.
If the Republicans had done what the Democrats did in the 2020 elections the Progressives would be going apeshit.
When the Left says "debunked" and "fact checked" .....they are lying.
Why are the Leftist so enraged about election audits?
Why are the Dems so opposed to Voter ID laws?
The Democrat Cultist are fighting against reality.

 

[Decus]

I don’t know but a nation that can’t hold a fair and transparent election, is a failed nation.

Except we held a fair and transparent election...

The craziness is we are still using the "Bad idea because they wanted to get home and rape their slaves" method of picking a president, instead of just having a direct election like any sensible nation would do.

To note......as crazy as it was 2016 was a fair election also.

That’s the thing with partisans, they can’t think rationally.

1. Prove that partisans don't think rationally, you can't
2. Partisans are active in the policies being voted on, as opposed to low-information voters, or non-voters
3. The old saying, "everyone votes their own pocketbook" is generally true

That’s too easy. Partisans of the two gangs think their gang is better, when clearly there is little difference between them. But like I stated, you must be able to think rationally and partisans can’t.

There are major differences between the two political parties, Leftists vs Conservatives.
If you think that the following policy differences don't matter, you aren't thinking.
Border and immigration policies
Energy policies
Military posture
The Green New Deal
"Wokeness"
Law and Order vs Anarchy
Reprogram the US education system: Critical Race Theory vs Traditional/Family Values
God vs atheism
China and trade policies
In-sourcing jobs vs outsourcing jobs by taxing corporations so much they relocate
HR-1 grab for one-party rule
Make DC & PR new states taking over the US senate forever
Replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote
Totally turning the US into a socialist/failed state.

That’s propaganda designed to deceive you and it’s working.

If you can't see the major differences between the two parties you're either lying, or stupid.
Why are you on this forum when all you say is "both parties suck"?
We're supposed to debate ideas, i.e. real "content". Your posts have no content, maybe you should try the "flame zone"?

Both parties sucking is an idea.

Both parties suck is a simplistic "opinion". Debating ideas is about why each party sucks, and which one sucks more.

In a post which uses the word "suck", three times. Some debate.

One side is debating programs, principles, and an agenda. The other side is claiming the election was stolen, and Donald Trump is the greatest president in history.

One side doesn't suck, but Democrats are very tired of trying to keep the country running while Republicans keep crashing the economy to impoverish working people and benefit their corporate donors.

Starting useless wars sucks. (Syria, Yemen, Libya).

Continuing useless wars (Iraq, Afghanistan) sucks.

And both parties love war, but their supporters apparently can’t see the obvious.

Name the last war a Democrat started, Gipper.

Syria.

Libya is still a hot mess because of Obama and Hillary.

.

 

[Decus]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

It would be a huge embarrassment for the courts and the challenges to any decision would be endless and probably last well into the next election so I doubt Biden would be removed. The biggest advantage would be a push to reform our elections and perhaps a drive for term limits on all politicians , as well as a requirement for real transparency and accountability of our politicians.

.

Nobody gives any credence to these Qunatic audits. They'll change nothing except for further embarrassing Trump's supporters.

It has already prompted action and continued debate as to how best to verify voter identity and eligibility. A very positive result even if further audits are blocked.

.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

It would be a huge embarrassment for the courts and the challenges to any decision would be endless and probably last well into the next election so I doubt Biden would be removed. The biggest advantage would be a push to reform our elections and perhaps a drive for term limits on all politicians , as well as a requirement for real transparency and accountability of our politicians.

.

Nobody gives any credence to these Qunatic audits. They'll change nothing except for further embarrassing Trump's supporters.

It has already prompted action and continued debate as to how best to verify voter identity and eligibility. A very positive result even if further audits are blocked.

.

We have been having that conversation since last spring. We don't need a bunch of incompetent fraud cultists putting on a dog-and-pony show in order to have this conversation.

 

[LeftofLeft]

What really is happening is mail-in ballots show up well after Election Days and courts say they will count. At the same time, entities struggle to match signatures. It’s an extremely flawed system and needs cleanup. Audits will expose this and we can have more confidence in our elections moving forward.

The number of ballots received in Pennsylvania after election were not enough to cause any change in the outcome. This idea that tons of ballots were pulled out of nowhere in the middle of the night is false.

I am not trying to change the outcome of the ‘20 Elections. I am

I don’t know but a nation that can’t hold a fair and transparent election, is a failed nation.

Except we held a fair and transparent election...

The craziness is we are still using the "Bad idea because they wanted to get home and rape their slaves" method of picking a president, instead of just having a direct election like any sensible nation would do.

To note......as crazy as it was 2016 was a fair election also.

That’s the thing with partisans, they can’t think rationally.

1. Prove that partisans don't think rationally, you can't
2. Partisans are active in the policies being voted on, as opposed to low-information voters, or non-voters
3. The old saying, "everyone votes their own pocketbook" is generally true

That’s too easy. Partisans of the two gangs think their gang is better, when clearly there is little difference between them. But like I stated, you must be able to think rationally and partisans can’t.

There are major differences between the two political parties, Leftists vs Conservatives.
If you think that the following policy differences don't matter, you aren't thinking.
Border and immigration policies
Energy policies
Military posture
The Green New Deal
"Wokeness"
Law and Order vs Anarchy
Reprogram the US education system: Critical Race Theory vs Traditional/Family Values
God vs atheism
China and trade policies
In-sourcing jobs vs outsourcing jobs by taxing corporations so much they relocate
HR-1 grab for one-party rule
Make DC & PR new states taking over the US senate forever
Replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote
Totally turning the US into a socialist/failed state.

That’s propaganda designed to deceive you and it’s working.

If you can't see the major differences between the two parties you're either lying, or stupid.
Why are you on this forum when all you say is "both parties suck"?
We're supposed to debate ideas, i.e. real "content". Your posts have no content, maybe you should try the "flame zone"?

Both parties sucking is an idea.

Both parties suck is a simplistic "opinion". Debating ideas is about why each party sucks, and which one sucks more.

In a post which uses the word "suck", three times. Some debate.

One side is debating programs, principles, and an agenda. The other side is claiming the election was stolen, and Donald Trump is the greatest president in history.

One side doesn't suck, but Democrats are very tired of trying to keep the country running while Republicans keep crashing the economy to impoverish working people and benefit their corporate donors.

Yea those higher energy prices and letting in mass illegals is going to do wonders for the US economy. Don’t forget the taxes Democrats are going to stick to Corporations and Small Businesses who will simply pass on to customers. Somehow that all saves the economy yet the Republicans crash the economy??

 

[Decus]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

It would be a huge embarrassment for the courts and the challenges to any decision would be endless and probably last well into the next election so I doubt Biden would be removed. The biggest advantage would be a push to reform our elections and perhaps a drive for term limits on all politicians , as well as a requirement for real transparency and accountability of our politicians.

.

Nobody gives any credence to these Qunatic audits. They'll change nothing except for further embarrassing Trump's supporters.

It has already prompted action and continued debate as to how best to verify voter identity and eligibility. A very positive result even if further audits are blocked.

.

We have been having that conversation since last spring. We don't need a bunch of incompetent fraud cultists putting on a dog-and-pony show in order to have this conversation.

So let them do the audit and you can show the world that their results are falsified. Truth welcomes transparency. Support the audit.

.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So let them do the audit and you can show the world that their results are falsified.

Oops, no. Nobody has to do that. They are a fraudulent joke until they prove otherwise. Which they will not do. They will be laughed right out of court.

 

[Care4all]

It's a good question. I hear some saying that the important thing is to prevent it from happening again and that these forensic investigations are somehow bad for the republic. Nonsense. You have to expose everything illegal that happened in order to make sure it doesn't happen again. That means putting people in jail. The truth is the best thing for this republic. Anyway, what is the remedy in the case that eventually it is proven that enough votes were tampered with in enough states to have affected the election? Rescind all executive orders and have another election as soon as it is possible to ensure a tamper proof election. Same candidates. That is the only remedy.

So every election on the ballot will be overturned or are we just going to pick and choose?

Another good question. Yes, I think we pick and choose the fraudulent elections rather than rerun all states. Any state found to have tampering significant enough to have changed the results should have the entire ballot rerun, even if it would not have affected the national election. For example, if they investigate and only prove that the Georgia elections were tampered with significantly, they would have to fix that and rerun the entire Georgia ballot. I don't know how else we would regain confidence in the system. Doubtful anyone has the stomach for this so I don't see anything happening.

How do you suggest confidence can be regained when one party flat out rejects all conclusions that don't fit the narrative of massive fraud out of hand?

There have been multiple recounts, and audits, not to mention statements from the DOJ and many more things all debunking that voter fraud happened.

No matter who says it, no matter what the context the belief that "something" happened hasn't really diminished. It's very hard to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong especially when the amount of people who do believe in it is so large.

The DOJ has been compromised and therefore they can't be trusted.
The Left "flat out rejects" that there was any voter fraud.
Recounts of the same bogus ballots is worthless.
When we see the video of the same stack of ballots being recounted over and over, and boxes of ballots being counted after the Republican poll watchers have been sent home, and windows being covered, and the blocking of Voter ID laws, and anonymous mail-in ballots being used......there is plenty of room for doubt about the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
The Democrat Party is a crazy cult that believes its own lies.

NONE, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH of that happened.

ALL is misinformation and made up, right wing propaganda.

You can't have more ballots than approved absentee ballot envelopes...checks and balance in the process catches it.

Republican and Democratic poll watchers were not sent home, the poll workers opening the approved absentee envelopes and unfolding/removing the ballots were done with their job, were sent home, and bother the Democratic and Republican poll watchers followed them.

No, none zip Republican or Democratic poll WATCHERS WERE REMOVED or sent home. This came out in a Trump court case.... Poll observers were kicked out when they were causing trouble, windows were covered when Republican observers outside were causing shenanigans and inside polling counters, felt threatened by their ruckus.

Poll observers are NOT Poll Watchers.

Etc etc etc

 

[Rigby5]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

Actually, nothing. The certified results have already been entered, after having been counted three times legitimately. Some half-ass audit of one county isn't going change that.

Recounting does no good at all.
If dead people voted, ballot mailed to wrong addresses, extra ballots missing, etc., that takes a lot more than simple recounting.

I personally don't think cheating is likely because it would seem it would take thousands of people to be in on it, and it would be very hard to keep that kind of secret?

But it is clear voting has often been done very badly, like butterfly ballots, hanging chads, etc.
And clearly no one should EVER be using voting machines.
It should always only be paper ballots.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

It's a good question. I hear some saying that the important thing is to prevent it from happening again and that these forensic investigations are somehow bad for the republic. Nonsense. You have to expose everything illegal that happened in order to make sure it doesn't happen again. That means putting people in jail. The truth is the best thing for this republic. Anyway, what is the remedy in the case that eventually it is proven that enough votes were tampered with in enough states to have affected the election? Rescind all executive orders and have another election as soon as it is possible to ensure a tamper proof election. Same candidates. That is the only remedy.

So every election on the ballot will be overturned or are we just going to pick and choose?

Another good question. Yes, I think we pick and choose the fraudulent elections rather than rerun all states. Any state found to have tampering significant enough to have changed the results should have the entire ballot rerun, even if it would not have affected the national election. For example, if they investigate and only prove that the Georgia elections were tampered with significantly, they would have to fix that and rerun the entire Georgia ballot. I don't know how else we would regain confidence in the system. Doubtful anyone has the stomach for this so I don't see anything happening.

How do you suggest confidence can be regained when one party flat out rejects all conclusions that don't fit the narrative of massive fraud out of hand?

There have been multiple recounts, and audits, not to mention statements from the DOJ and many more things all debunking that voter fraud happened.

No matter who says it, no matter what the context the belief that "something" happened hasn't really diminished. It's very hard to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong especially when the amount of people who do believe in it is so large.

The DOJ has been compromised and therefore they can't be trusted.
The Left "flat out rejects" that there was any voter fraud.
Recounts of the same bogus ballots is worthless.
When we see the video of the same stack of ballots being recounted over and over, and boxes of ballots being counted after the Republican poll watchers have been sent home, and windows being covered, and the blocking of Voter ID laws, and anonymous mail-in ballots being used......there is plenty of room for doubt about the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
The Democrat Party is a crazy cult that believes its own lies.

NONE, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH of that happened.

ALL is misinformation and made up, right wing propaganda.

You can't have more ballots than approved absentee ballot envelopes...checks and balance in the process catches it.

Republican and Democratic poll watchers were not sent home, the poll workers opening the approved absentee envelopes and unfolding/removing the ballots were done with their job, were sent home, and bother the Democratic and Republican poll watchers followed them.

No, none zip Republican or Democratic poll WATCHERS WERE REMOVED or sent home. This came out in a Trump court case.... Poll observers were kicked out when they were causing trouble, windows were covered when Republican observers outside were causing shenanigans and inside polling counters, felt threatened by their ruckus.

Poll observers are NOT Poll Watchers.

Etc etc etc

No, obviously it didn't. Those checks and balances were thrown out. It takes time to sift through all of the deception but the truth will come out.

 

[Lastamender]

NINJA's are never going to prove anything.

The county already proved they did not run the election. That should nullify the election. The law was clearly broken.

 

[Decus]

So let them do the audit and you can show the world that their results are falsified.

Oops, no. Nobody has to do that. They are a fraudulent joke until they prove otherwise. Which they will not do. They will be laughed right out of court.

You know you are right so there is no harm in letting them do the audit. Truth is on your side. Blocking the audit only causes many people to wonder - "what are they trying to hide?"

Remove all doubt and let them do the audit.

.

 

[Rigby5]

Will MI follow suit? And if that is proven as a cheat, what happens? Does Sleepy Joe get to keep on in the WH? Or if proven Trump DID win...does he get brought back as potus?

It would be a huge embarrassment for the courts and the challenges to any decision would be endless and probably last well into the next election so I doubt Biden would be removed. The biggest advantage would be a push to reform our elections and perhaps a drive for term limits on all politicians , as well as a requirement for real transparency and accountability of our politicians.

.

Nobody gives any credence to these Qunatic audits. They'll change nothing except for further embarrassing Trump's supporters.

I would not go that far, since there is a huge history of election fraud, like butterfly ballots, hanging chads, Chicago dead voting, etc.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You know you are right so there is no harm in letting them do the audit.

Unfortunately, that is 100% wrong in a society infected with the disease of post-truth Trumpism. There is plenty of harm to be done with this dog and pony show.

 

[Decus]

You know you are right so there is no harm in letting them do the audit.

Unfortunately, that is 100% wrong in a society infected with the disease of post-truth Trumpism. There is plenty of harm to be done with this dog and pony show.

What harm?? Truth is on your side.

.

 

[Lastamender]

You know you are right so there is no harm in letting them do the audit.

Unfortunately, that is 100% wrong in a society infected with the disease of post-truth Trumpism. There is plenty of harm to be done with this dog and pony show.

The only harm will be proving fraud happened. That will not harm me.