I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

Phoenall, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

He is trying to say that by using the phrase "southernmost tip of Palestine," means (literally) that "Palestine" was some sort of nation or state with a geographic boundary.

Hmmmm.

What are you trying to prove by this Tinmore??

And what are you trying to tell us when you say that ISRAEL is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreement. What are you getting at? Please tell me

(OBSERVATION)

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

(COMMENT)

As our friend "Phoenall" in Posting 1207, as well as others, (and without regard to the much older single-commission opinion of King-Crane a half-century earlier) whatever you want to call the place holder "Palestine," in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state. It was a territory --- unable to stand on its own, totally dependent on the administrator government (either the UK or the UNPC) which were "entirely responsible --- both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

There can be nothing plainer than this.

Most Respectfully,
R

in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state.

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

 

[toastman]

There is ZERO evidence of Palestine being a sovereign state before 1988. Tinmore is a liar.

In fact, he has made a substantial amount of crap up concerning Israel and Palestine.
You can see what claims in post #989 in page 66 of this thread.

 

[toastman]

Phoenall, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

He is trying to say that by using the phrase "southernmost tip of Palestine," means (literally) that "Palestine" was some sort of nation or state with a geographic boundary.

What are you trying to prove by this Tinmore??

And what are you trying to tell us when you say that ISRAEL is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreement. What are you getting at? Please tell me

(OBSERVATION)



(COMMENT)

As our friend "Phoenall" in Posting 1207, as well as others, (and without regard to the much older single-commission opinion of King-Crane a half-century earlier) whatever you want to call the place holder "Palestine," in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state. It was a territory --- unable to stand on its own, totally dependent on the administrator government (either the UK or the UNPC) which were "entirely responsible --- both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

There can be nothing plainer than this.

Most Respectfully,
R

in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state.

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

 

[P F Tinmore]

Phoenall, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

He is trying to say that by using the phrase "southernmost tip of Palestine," means (literally) that "Palestine" was some sort of nation or state with a geographic boundary.


(OBSERVATION)



(COMMENT)

As our friend "Phoenall" in Posting 1207, as well as others, (and without regard to the much older single-commission opinion of King-Crane a half-century earlier) whatever you want to call the place holder "Palestine," in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state. It was a territory --- unable to stand on its own, totally dependent on the administrator government (either the UK or the UNPC) which were "entirely responsible --- both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

There can be nothing plainer than this.

Most Respectfully,
R

in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state.

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

Well, what Rocco said about Palestine being dependent at that time is true, just like kids are dependent till they move out of the house. Then they become independent.
About states needing permission to become independent--some states do and some don't. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc. needed permission because they were all part of mandated territory after WW1. Palestine needed permission too, but Palestine/Israel had special circumstances surrounding it/them.

 

[Kondor3]

"...The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite..."

Oh, the Palestinians exercised their right of self-determination, alright.

They determined to skeddaddle in 1948 when the balloon went up.

They're still paying for that cowardice today.

The Jews (both lifelong residents and immigrants), citizens of The Mandate, also exercised their right of self-determination.

They determined to seccede from the whole and set up shop for themselves.

It's just that the Jews were infinitely better at it than the Arabs were.

Nature favors the quick and de-selects the slow.

Welcome to your consequences.

 

[toastman]

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

got a link that their territory was defined ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

got a link that their territory was defined ?

The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.

Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9 Ultimately, the border between Palestine and Trans-Jordan was fixed as suggested by Britain.
---------------------
With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).
---------------------
The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a de facto basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906.

The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there was a potential for the right to self-determination; both for the Jewish and the Arab were being guided in that direction.

The right to self determination does not require a sovereign state. A sovereign state is the product of self determination, not a prerequisite. Your post is irrelevant.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

(COMMENT)

• When did the Palestinians create a State?

The many Arab League (Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Yemen) officially recognized "Palestine" as a state in 1988. Oddly enough, Lebanon did not recognize Palestine until 2008. Syria, conversely, officially recognized "Palestine" in 1967, and again in 2011.

There was an attempt to establish the "All Palestine Government" (APG) by the first Arab Higher Committee. This attempted failed and the APG was annulled by the Egyptian Government which Occupied the Gaza Strip. Jordan, which Occupied the West Bank, never recognized the APG and later annexed the West Bank.​

(QUESTIONS)

• With the exception of these two events, when did the "Palestinians" exercise their right of self-determination (other than to reject the Plan for an additional Arab State), and who knew about it? (Tell me they were not keeping it secret.)

• What countries today, officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• What organizations or activities officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• If a Palestinian creates a state, and nobody knows about it, does it make a "state?"

Inquiring minds want to know!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Ronin]

Zionists and most Christians which have a majority of the influence that funds some of Israel's arsenal will view any aggression from the Palestinian side as terrorism and Israel only defending itself. Right of return aside continued settlement expansion in the West Bank is not seen as an aggressive act but that similar to American Manifest Destiny.

The vilification goes deeper than that. The very story Israel uses as its spiritual basis for operating the way it has teaches at a foundational level Arabs are the "ass of man". I understand that Christians think Israel has to be a state in order for the end of this world to happen. I have never understood how they can really get along though. The Jewish people I have spoke with pretty much denounce the idea of Christ being God.

American Christians do not realize that Jews consider Jesus Christ a charlatan.

And in this you are also wrong as the Jews view Christ as just another prophet, just not the messiah as prophesised.

That was from my statement which I was wrong to say. Would it be fair to say as a whole the view toward Jesus varies? I was referring to my father's experience. He converted to Judaism 15 years ago and in the process was told he had to denounce Christ. Perhaps it was because he was a Christian at the time. IDK I would get further details but we no longer communicate.

It seems there are a wide spectrum of views. Prophet as you said, false prophet, charlatan, some who have converted from Judaism to Christianity, some who view him as irrelevant and insignificant, and everything in between.

This example seems to reflect a view stronger than just a prophet:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CcZYdgIMhk]We Killed Jesus, We're Proud Of It!.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

There are others showing where people of Jewish descent accepting Jesus as God.

I should have been specific to make a generalized statement that was incorrect to apply it the manner I did.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there was a potential for the right to self-determination; both for the Jewish and the Arab were being guided in that direction.

Oh shutup Tinmore. Whenever you don't like Rocco stating the truth, you tell him his post in irrelevant. Nobody said anything about self-determination. We are talking about a place called Palestine being a SOVEREIGN STATE DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME

For EVERY country in the world, I can find out when they became a state. Including Palestine. Palestine became a state in 1988, and there's nothing you can say or do to change this

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

(COMMENT)

• When did the Palestinians create a State?

The many Arab League (Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Yemen) officially recognized "Palestine" as a state in 1988. Oddly enough, Lebanon did not recognize Palestine until 2008. Syria, conversely, officially recognized "Palestine" in 1967, and again in 2011.

There was an attempt to establish the "All Palestine Government" (APG) by the first Arab Higher Committee. This attempted failed and the APG was annulled by the Egyptian Government which Occupied the Gaza Strip. Jordan, which Occupied the West Bank, never recognized the APG and later annexed the West Bank.​

(QUESTIONS)

• With the exception of these two events, when did the "Palestinians" exercise their right of self-determination (other than to reject the Plan for an additional Arab State), and who knew about it? (Tell me they were not keeping it secret.)

• What countries today, officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• What organizations or activities officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• If a Palestinian creates a state, and nobody knows about it, does it make a "state?"

Inquiring minds want to know!

Most Respectfully,
R

Why are you hung up on this state thing? Whether Palestine is a state or not is a matter of political opinion.

The right to self determination does not require a state.

So, what is your point?

 

[Sally]

American Christians do not realize that Jews consider Jesus Christ a charlatan.

And in this you are also wrong as the Jews view Christ as just another prophet, just not the messiah as prophesised.

That was from my statement which I was wrong to say. Would it be fair to say as a whole the view toward Jesus varies? I was referring to my father's experience. He converted to Judaism 15 years ago and in the process was told he had to denounce Christ. Perhaps it was because he was a Christian at the time. IDK I would get further details but we no longer communicate.

It seems there are a wide spectrum of views. Prophet as you said, false prophet, charlatan, some who have converted from Judaism to Christianity, some who view him as irrelevant and insignificant, and everything in between.

This example seems to reflect a view stronger than just a prophet:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CcZYdgIMhk]We Killed Jesus, We're Proud Of It!.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

There are others showing where people of Jewish descent accepting Jesus as God.

I should have been specific to make a generalized statement that was incorrect to apply it the manner I did.

Ronin, do you realize that this same video has been pulled up for years and years by anti-Semites as if these dunken kids really represented anything. Now when I was a kid, I used to hear the kids coming hom from Blessed Sacrament Parochial School singing, "On Monday we go to school; on Tuesday we beat up the Jews." Do you think that anyone would hold them up to public scrutiny likes these kids in the video have been held up?

 

[toastman]

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

got a link that their territory was defined ?

The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.

Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9 Ultimately, the border between Palestine and Trans-Jordan was fixed as suggested by Britain.
---------------------
With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).
---------------------
The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a de facto basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906.

The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

As expected, you didnt answer my question

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I thought that was exactly the question.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there was a potential for the right to self-determination; both for the Jewish and the Arab were being guided in that direction.

Did they have the right to create a state before or after they created their state.

A people do not need to get permission to create a state inside their own defined territory.

(COMMENT)

• When did the Palestinians create a State?

The many Arab League (Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Yemen) officially recognized "Palestine" as a state in 1988. Oddly enough, Lebanon did not recognize Palestine until 2008. Syria, conversely, officially recognized "Palestine" in 1967, and again in 2011.

There was an attempt to establish the "All Palestine Government" (APG) by the first Arab Higher Committee. This attempted failed and the APG was annulled by the Egyptian Government which Occupied the Gaza Strip. Jordan, which Occupied the West Bank, never recognized the APG and later annexed the West Bank.​

(QUESTIONS)

• With the exception of these two events, when did the "Palestinians" exercise their right of self-determination (other than to reject the Plan for an additional Arab State), and who knew about it? (Tell me they were not keeping it secret.)

• What countries today, officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• What organizations or activities officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• If a Palestinian creates a state, and nobody knows about it, does it make a "state?"

Inquiring minds want to know!

Most Respectfully,
R

Why are you hung up on this state thing? Whether Palestine is a state or not is a matter of political opinion.

The right to self determination does not require a state.

So, what is your point?

(COMMENT)

So, are your saying that the Palestinians did not want a State or Nation until 1988? That the whole question is irrelevant! (WOW!)

(QUESTION)

What is the question?

I thought the allegation was that:

• The Jewish invaded a Palestinian Country.
• That the Jewish stole their Country and currently occupy all of the territory.
• That the Jewish denied the Palestinian the right to self-determination.

Or did I get it wrong.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I thought that was exactly the question.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there was a potential for the right to self-determination; both for the Jewish and the Arab were being guided in that direction.


(COMMENT)

• When did the Palestinians create a State?

The many Arab League (Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Yemen) officially recognized "Palestine" as a state in 1988. Oddly enough, Lebanon did not recognize Palestine until 2008. Syria, conversely, officially recognized "Palestine" in 1967, and again in 2011.

There was an attempt to establish the "All Palestine Government" (APG) by the first Arab Higher Committee. This attempted failed and the APG was annulled by the Egyptian Government which Occupied the Gaza Strip. Jordan, which Occupied the West Bank, never recognized the APG and later annexed the West Bank.​

(QUESTIONS)

• With the exception of these two events, when did the "Palestinians" exercise their right of self-determination (other than to reject the Plan for an additional Arab State), and who knew about it? (Tell me they were not keeping it secret.)

• What countries today, officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• What organizations or activities officially recognize a pre-1988 "State of Palestine?

• If a Palestinian creates a state, and nobody knows about it, does it make a "state?"

Inquiring minds want to know!

Most Respectfully,
R

Why are you hung up on this state thing? Whether Palestine is a state or not is a matter of political opinion.

The right to self determination does not require a state.

So, what is your point?

(COMMENT)

So, are your saying that the Palestinians did not want a State or Nation until 1988? That the whole question is irrelevant! (WOW!)

As you know, the Palestinians called on Britain to create an independent, democratic state as required in the LoN Covenant.

After two and a half decades, there was still no elected government.

(QUESTION)

What is the question?

I thought the allegation was that:

• The Jewish invaded a Palestinian Country.
• That the Jewish stole their Country and currently occupy all of the territory.
• That the Jewish denied the Palestinian the right to self-determination.

Or did I get it wrong.

That was always the Zionist's stated goal.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I thought that was exactly the question.

Why are you hung up on this state thing? Whether Palestine is a state or not is a matter of political opinion.

The right to self determination does not require a state.

So, what is your point?

(COMMENT)

So, are your saying that the Palestinians did not want a State or Nation until 1988? That the whole question is irrelevant! (WOW!)

As you know, the Palestinians called on Britain to create an independent, democratic state as required in the LoN Covenant.

After two and a half decades, there was still no elected government.

(QUESTION)

What is the question?

I thought the allegation was that:

• The Jewish invaded a Palestinian Country.
• That the Jewish stole their Country and currently occupy all of the territory.
• That the Jewish denied the Palestinian the right to self-determination.

Or did I get it wrong.

That was always the Zionist's stated goal.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice deflection

The who Palestinian state conversation started when I asked you a few days ago WHEN Palestine became a country. You lied and told me it became a country the same date as the Treaty of Lausanne. Now all of a sudden you don't want to discuss it because you were proved wrong. Then you should have acknowledged that Rocco was correct in saying that there was no State of Palestine up until 1988.

 

[Ronin]

And in this you are also wrong as the Jews view Christ as just another prophet, just not the messiah as prophesised.

That was from my statement which I was wrong to say. Would it be fair to say as a whole the view toward Jesus varies? I was referring to my father's experience. He converted to Judaism 15 years ago and in the process was told he had to denounce Christ. Perhaps it was because he was a Christian at the time. IDK I would get further details but we no longer communicate.

It seems there are a wide spectrum of views. Prophet as you said, false prophet, charlatan, some who have converted from Judaism to Christianity, some who view him as irrelevant and insignificant, and everything in between.

This example seems to reflect a view stronger than just a prophet:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CcZYdgIMhk]We Killed Jesus, We're Proud Of It!.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

There are others showing where people of Jewish descent accepting Jesus as God.

I should have been specific to make a generalized statement that was incorrect to apply it the manner I did.

Ronin, do you realize that this same video has been pulled up for years and years by anti-Semites as if these dunken kids really represented anything. Now when I was a kid, I used to hear the kids coming hom from Blessed Sacrament Parochial School singing, "On Monday we go to school; on Tuesday we beat up the Jews." Do you think that anyone would hold them up to public scrutiny likes these kids in the video have been held up?

I was diving in Sharm El Skeikh in 1990, and at the time was a devout Christian. Even though not planned; I realized how close Israel was and decided go while the opportunity was there. That is where I met Ron Wyatt. Wyatt Archaeological Research - Official Site of Ron Wyatt's Discoveries.
It was also my first experience with Israelis. They were tearing through his equipment (rightly so), but were otherwise professional and polite. He invited me to go into the desert and look for what he said was the site of Aaron and his golden crown. He introduced me to several Jewish people who were very kind and fun to be around.

My first glimpse of Palestinians reminded me of homeless beggars; who from what I was told- were invading troublemakers. We never did find what he was looking for, but he invited me to assist him again several times over the next few years. By the time I was in Israel the last visit I was no longer a Christian and had become a skeptic of Ron’s Work.

I also met several Coptic Arabs who were very kind. There were rude and polite people on both sides. In fact, I met some Israeli girls who were gorgeous (even with the automatic rifles slung around there backs). Religion aside- people were people. Individuals were and are unique. It is completely idiotic to base judgment about an entire group of people on who God is to them. Provided there is no infringement on others.

Personally, I think all organized religion is misguided and destructive to this world, but it doesn’t mean I wish physical harm upon them. With the exception of the Westboro Church lunatics (who I wouldn’t mind if they went away), spirituality is a personal relationship people have with what they perceive is God.

It’s the fellowships (large groups or sects) that affect political policy that have a history of being destructive. I have Christian and Jewish friends. We don’t discuss God and get along great. If I was constantly harassed about non conformity I would not “like” them.

Having been worshipped as a Catholic, and as a Christian (several sects of it), if I had to choose any religion to worship a god now… it would be Judaism. It doesn’t teach that: - that Jesus was the son of God/Prophet, Trinity, the Virgin Birth of Mary, the Holy Spirit, Heaven and Hell, and proselytizing (which is a HUGE plus). The beliefs in God: are- God is one and unique, is incorporeal and has no shape/form/sex. As far as organized religions go, it is the most appealing. But religion or at least the ones present now don’t go very far in terms of peace on this planet. They never have. All religions block the social evolution of the population.

I am not stating there are not anti-sematic members here. I recently saw a post by someone with a very offensive cartoon referencing something awful about the Holocaust. However you appear to use the term "anti-Semite" with anyone against what you see as being 100% Pro-Israel.

Neturei Karta and similar appear to be fringe in your eyes. I could be wrong I don’t want to put words in your mouth. The bottom line is I don’t have a hatred for Jewish People. I disagree with SOME Jewish people. I disagree with the current administration’s policy of allowing the continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank. I firmly disagree with what appears to be the settlement demeanor.

The is the apex of what I disagree with: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAF1AW1bwAM]Renegade Jewish Settlers Part 3/5 - YouTube[/ame]

The teens in that video say a lot. The irony is apparently to you they are the victims.
The 21st century still has an issue that is going to go global built on folklore, multiple Reductio ad absurdums, and straw men.


As far as the other video being posted before. I posted in response to a generalized statement of Jesus being viewed as a prophet. Yes, it has been posted before. I have read the posts in this forum going back to 2003.

You stated before I was bringing up old points. After reading discussions since then, it has all been stated before. Aside from a few current, yet repeated events you occasionally post (all from the same sources with obvious biases) and small intermittent number of others- the threads all end up relatively the same. Some members appeared to have come and gone, but the arguments back then are mostly the same ones being had today.

Blessed Sacrament Parochial School kids being scrutinized. Huh? I don’t know. Are you referencing a proposed national anti-sematic sentiment? I have no idea what you’re talking about. If I were the parent of one of those children and found out about it, that would be the last time they sang something like that.

How different is it for Jewish children to be taught fellow Arab children are asses of humanity. Why does that get a pass from you?

 

[toastman]

That was from my statement which I was wrong to say. Would it be fair to say as a whole the view toward Jesus varies? I was referring to my father's experience. He converted to Judaism 15 years ago and in the process was told he had to denounce Christ. Perhaps it was because he was a Christian at the time. IDK I would get further details but we no longer communicate.

It seems there are a wide spectrum of views. Prophet as you said, false prophet, charlatan, some who have converted from Judaism to Christianity, some who view him as irrelevant and insignificant, and everything in between.

This example seems to reflect a view stronger than just a prophet:
We Killed Jesus, We're Proud Of It!.mp4 - YouTube

There are others showing where people of Jewish descent accepting Jesus as God.

I should have been specific to make a generalized statement that was incorrect to apply it the manner I did.

Ronin, do you realize that this same video has been pulled up for years and years by anti-Semites as if these dunken kids really represented anything. Now when I was a kid, I used to hear the kids coming hom from Blessed Sacrament Parochial School singing, "On Monday we go to school; on Tuesday we beat up the Jews." Do you think that anyone would hold them up to public scrutiny likes these kids in the video have been held up?

I was diving in Sharm El Skeikh in 1990, and at the time was a devout Christian. Even though not planned; I realized how close Israel was and decided go while the opportunity was there. That is where I met Ron Wyatt. Wyatt Archaeological Research - Official Site of Ron Wyatt's Discoveries.
It was also my first experience with Israelis. They were tearing through his equipment (rightly so), but were otherwise professional and polite. He invited me to go into the desert and look for what he said was the site of Aaron and his golden crown. He introduced me to several Jewish people who were very kind and fun to be around.

My first glimpse of Palestinians reminded me of homeless beggars; who from what I was told- were invading troublemakers. We never did find what he was looking for, but he invited me to assist him again several times over the next few years. By the time I was in Israel the last visit I was no longer a Christian and had become a skeptic of Ron’s Work.

I also met several Coptic Arabs who were very kind. There were rude and polite people on both sides. In fact, I met some Israeli girls who were gorgeous (even with the automatic rifles slung around there backs). Religion aside- people were people. Individuals were and are unique. It is completely idiotic to base judgment about an entire group of people on who God is to them. Provided there is no infringement on others.

Personally, I think all organized religion is misguided and destructive to this world, but it doesn’t mean I wish physical harm upon them. With the exception of the Westboro Church lunatics (who I wouldn’t mind if they went away), spirituality is a personal relationship people have with what they perceive is God.

It’s the fellowships (large groups or sects) that affect political policy that have a history of being destructive. I have Christian and Jewish friends. We don’t discuss God and get along great. If I was constantly harassed about non conformity I would not “like” them.

Having been worshipped as a Catholic, and as a Christian (several sects of it), if I had to choose any religion to worship a god now… it would be Judaism. It doesn’t teach that: - that Jesus was the son of God/Prophet, Trinity, the Virgin Birth of Mary, the Holy Spirit, Heaven and Hell, and proselytizing (which is a HUGE plus). The beliefs in God: are- God is one and unique, is incorporeal and has no shape/form/sex. As far as organized religions go, it is the most appealing. But religion or at least the ones present now don’t go very far in terms of peace on this planet. They never have. All religions block the social evolution of the population.

I am not stating there are not anti-sematic members here. I recently saw a post by someone with a very offensive cartoon referencing something awful about the Holocaust. However you appear to use the term "anti-Semite" with anyone against what you see as being 100% Pro-Israel.

Neturei Karta and similar appear to be fringe in your eyes. I could be wrong I don’t want to put words in your mouth. The bottom line is I don’t have a hatred for Jewish People. I disagree with SOME Jewish people. I disagree with the current administration’s policy of allowing the continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank. I firmly disagree with what appears to be the settlement demeanor.

The is the apex of what I disagree with: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAF1AW1bwAM]Renegade Jewish Settlers Part 3/5 - YouTube[/ame]

The teens in that video say a lot. The irony is apparently to you they are the victims.
The 21st century still has an issue that is going to go global built on folklore, multiple Reductio ad absurdums, and straw men.


As far as the other video being posted before. I posted in response to a generalized statement of Jesus being viewed as a prophet. Yes, it has been posted before. I have read the posts in this forum going back to 2003.

You stated before I was bringing up old points. After reading discussions since then, it has all been stated before. Aside from a few current, yet repeated events you occasionally post (all from the same sources with obvious biases) and small intermittent number of others- the threads all end up relatively the same. Some members appeared to have come and gone, but the arguments back then are mostly the same ones being had today.

Blessed Sacrament Parochial School kids being scrutinized. Huh? I don’t know. Are you referencing a proposed national anti-sematic sentiment? I have no idea what you’re talking about. If I were the parent of one of those children and found out about it, that would be the last time they sang something like that.

How different is it for Jewish children to be taught fellow Arab children are asses of humanity. Why does that get a pass from you?

Jewish children are not taught that. Stop lying

 

[Billo_Really]

Jewish children are not taught that. Stop lying

I used to date a jewish girl; man, was she a psycho in bed!

 

[Phoenall]

WRONG as Israel had been recognised as a state in may 1948

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Hmmmm.

Warned you, Phoenall.

However Tinmore, doesn't it also say JORDANIAN-ISRAELI Agreement? You can't just cherry-pick and choose words to your liking.

That is were he shoots himself in the foot every time, when he butchers the reports he is basing his whole stance on. Then he is shown to be falsifying evidence making his next move very suspect.

He believes that the mention of the word Palestine proves that it means a nation, when in actual fact taken in its full context it means place