P F Tinmore
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A place or state called Israel was not mentioned.
Territory that Israel occupied/controlled was still called Palestine.
I will not Bow!
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A place or state called Israel was not mentioned.
Territory that Israel occupied/controlled was still called Palestine.
The world 'Israeli' is mentioned several times. The fact that the word Israel is not mentioned means nothing, and you know it.
The armistice agreements were between Israel and those 4 states. Where in the armistice agreements does it mention anything about Israel occupying Palestine territory ?
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
I see.
So you are saying that those four (4) Armistice Agreements are just handing out there, and were not made with the State of Israel?
Or - are you saying you don't know?
I seem to recall that you previously Posted in #463 these links.
And I see on the UN Archive, that each and every one of them is signed "For and on behalf of the Government of Israel."
What do you think?
Most Respectfully,
R
I see.
(COMMENT)
So you are saying that those four (4) Armistice Agreements are just handing out there, and were not made with the State of Israel?
Or - are you saying you don't know?
I seem to recall that you previously Posted in #463 these links.
And I see on the UN Archive, that each and every one of them is signed "For and on behalf of the Government of Israel."
What do you think?
Most Respectfully,
R
He doesn't even know what he's saying. He's a moron
Yes the Palestinians themselves who attacked Israel and tried to murder the children. If they had not done so then they would be a thriving nation by now. just look at the Israeli withdrawal from gaza in August 2005, shows that the muslims don't want peace they just want everything.
So yes lets blame the assholes who have created this monster in the name of Mohamed and allah, THE MUSLIM ARARBS
YES as a place name and not a nation. When it speaks of Israel it say the nation of Israel or the state of Israel.
Just checked and it does not mention Palestine at all.
The 1949 Armistice Agreements are a set of agreements signed during 1949 between Israel and neighboring Egypt,[1] Lebanon,[2] Jordan,[3] and Syria.[4] The agreements ended the official hostilities of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, and established Armistice Demarcation Lines between Israeli forces and the forces in Jordanian-held West Bank, also known as the Green Line. The United Nations established supervising and reporting agencies to monitor the established armistice lines
1949 Armistice Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do those rights also extend to the Jews and Christians of Palestine to form their own nations and governments under the terms of the UN charter ?
ForeverYoung436
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That's the Wikipedia article. The actual Armistice Agreements might mention Palestine as the name of an unincorporated territory. Don't get caught into his philosophical traps.
Yes, exactly. There is ZERO evidence of Palestine being a country before 1988.
A quick google of the 1949 armistice shows you to be LYING as Israel is mentiond but palestine isn't.
Yeppers... it's a philosophical trap, alright, even though it's embarrassingly obvious one, and easy to avoid, once you're aware of its existence. Frankly, word games like this are all that the Palestinians and their sympathizers have to go on; not much; something I recently likened to holding a pair of deuces at the Big Boys' poker table.
The paternal side of my family comes from a collective of five (5) tiny villages (Somborn, Neuses, Bernbach, Horbach and Altenmittlau) 15-20km to the east of Hanau, Germany; all within easy walking distance of each other.
They have been collectively known as 'Freigericht' (Free Court) since the late 1100s, when, legend has it, the Emperor Friedrich Barbarossa granted the peasants and burghers of those villages the right to hold their own justice-court (as opposed to relying upon the Imperial court in Fulda for everything) as a reward for coming to his aid when he and a traveling party were ambushed by a local warlord nearby.
Those five villages were thusly defined as a 'region' known as 'Freigericht', and they even had some trappings of collaborative administration - their Free Court (which lasted for some centuries after the grant) - but each village governed itself. There was no such self-governing and autonomous polity known as 'Freigericht'.
In 1970, some 800 (-ish) years after the decree by the Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, those five villages finally banded together into a municipal polity roughly akin to an American 'township' model - consolidating down to one Village Hall and one Police Department, one Fire Department, one school district, one taxing authority, and one set of bureaucrats, etc. - actually becoming an incorporated, chartered polity.
And, if any of those five villages did not wish to participate in that polity, they had that option, and could have broken away at any time during the chartering process and struck out on their own.
There are similarities (on a different scale) with Old Palestine.
The region has been known as 'Palestine' ever since the Romans knocked-over the last of the Jewish puppet-state kinglets that had governed in the name of Rome.
There may even have been occasional glimmers of 'home rule' here and there, scattered across the centuries, but nothing substantive and durable or even noteworthy, other than local magistrates and an occasional and odd home-grown governor or administrator here and there.
But nothing even remotely resembling a Nation or a Distinct People ever existed, nor were even attempted until after the Jews of Old Palestine had broken away in 1948 and struck out on their own; the Palestinians declaring 4-5 months later, and again in 1988, a day late and a dollar short - the usual outcome of incompetent Palestinian political activism.
You can't declare a State and a People RETROACTIVELY - not in the Real World, amongst practical men and women.
And that's what the foolish Palestinians and their sympathizers are trying to do here; declare a State and a People retroactively; conjuring-up all sorts of erzatz and humorous rationale for our amusement and dining pleasure... dinner AND a show!
Rather like the old 1960s movie, Cool Hand Luke...
Coming at the world with a handfulla nuthin...
Sometimes, nuthin can be a real cool hand...
Sometimes, not... as is the case here.
They keep hammering away at this Retroactive Nation and People idea, to no purpose...
And keep whining about ancient legalities and spin-doctored legal interpretations, as if that actually means anything in the Real World of today...
They do it because it's all they've got...
A handfulla nuthin...
A pair of deuces - one showin', one in the hole - with one card left to draw - at the Big Boys' poker table - and they've been 'called' and 'bumped'...
No wonder they're losing their shirt...
The fools don't know when to fold...
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P F Tinmore
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montelatici
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An excerpt on Palestine, from the Recommendations of the King-Crane Commission with regard to Syria-Palestine and Iraq from 1919.
(3) The Commission recognised also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement, in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to-favouring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" - it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist programme must be greatly modified. For a national home for the Jewish people is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete disposition of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase. In his address, of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting": "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material Interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine-tenths of the whole emphatically against the entire Zionist programme. -
King-Crane Commission recommendations - Syria/Palestine and Iraq - Non-UN document (29 August 1919)
(3) The Commission recognised also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement, in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to-favouring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" - it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist programme must be greatly modified. For a national home for the Jewish people is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete disposition of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase. In his address, of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting": "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material Interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine-tenths of the whole emphatically against the entire Zionist programme. -
King-Crane Commission recommendations - Syria/Palestine and Iraq - Non-UN document (29 August 1919)
ForeverYoung436
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Warned you, Phoenall.
However Tinmore, doesn't it also say JORDANIAN-ISRAELI Agreement? You can't just cherry-pick and choose words to your liking.
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Which is about as relevant as - and binding as - and as valuable as - a roll of Charmin, in our present age.
montelatici
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Of course it is relevant. It is just as relevant as the Balfour Declaration which pre-dates it. It shows that there were concerns about the Zionist's intentions which were contrary to the safeguards that were intended for the indigenous non-Jews.
And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...
Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...
Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...
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