I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

An excerpt on Palestine, from the Recommendations of the King-Crane Commission with regard to Syria-Palestine and Iraq from 1919.



(3) The Commission recognised also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement, in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to-favouring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" - it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist programme must be greatly modified. For a national home for the Jewish people is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete disposition of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase. In his address, of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting": "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material Interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine-tenths of the whole emphatically against the entire Zionist programme. -

King-Crane Commission recommendations - Syria/Palestine and Iraq - Non-UN document (29 August 1919)

Indeed.

 

[montelatici]

Which is about as relevant as - and binding as - and as valuable as - a roll of Charmin, in our present age.

Of course it is relevant. It is just as relevant as the Balfour Declaration which pre-dates it. It shows that there were concerns about the Zionist's intentions which were contrary to the safeguards that were intended for the indigenous non-Jews.

And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...

Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...

Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

 

[Indeependent]

Of course it is relevant. It is just as relevant as the Balfour Declaration which pre-dates it. It shows that there were concerns about the Zionist's intentions which were contrary to the safeguards that were intended for the indigenous non-Jews.

And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...

Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...

Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

 

[Kondor3]

Of course it is relevant. It is just as relevant as the Balfour Declaration which pre-dates it. It shows that there were concerns about the Zionist's intentions which were contrary to the safeguards that were intended for the indigenous non-Jews.

And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...

Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...

Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

Or, alternatively, it was known even then that the European-contrived and supported goal of creating a Jewish Homeland on their old ancestral grounds would prove problematic. Can't blame the Jews of Europe for buying into the idea, after waiting for the better part of 2000 years to return. They saw their opportunity and they seized upon it. Most of us would have done the same, under identical or similar ciircumstances. The Arabs of the region were simply in-the-way; an impediment, to be circumvented; by both the Euro-Christians and the Jews. As they already have been, in large part.

 

[montelatici]

And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...

Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...

Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

 

[montelatici]

And now all you need is to make that operative in the Real World, and you're all set...

Rather like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted...

Nice background, but meaningless, in any operative sense...

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

Or, alternatively, it was known even then that the European-contrived and supported goal of creating a Jewish Homeland on their old ancestral grounds would prove problematic. Can't blame the Jews of Europe for buying into the idea, after waiting for the better part of 2000 years to return. They saw their opportunity and they seized upon it. Most of us would have done the same, under identical or similar ciircumstances. The Arabs of the region were simply in-the-way; an impediment, to be circumvented; by both the Euro-Christians and the Jews. As they already have been, in large part.

If that were the case, I doubt the commission would have written:

"This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up."

King-Crane Commission recommendations - Syria/Palestine and Iraq - Non-UN document (29 August 1919)

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

 

[Indeependent]

Of course, but it lays to rest the common assertion here that the non-Jews are the cause of the problem. Quite clearly, it was known even then that the European Zionists were the problem.

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

All the blatant injustice amongst the Islamo murderers in the ME and the only obsession you have is with Israel.
You're not a very good humanist.

 

[montelatici]

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

Again, what do they have to do with a commission on Palestine in 1919?

 

[Indeependent]

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

People being slaughtered left and right in the name of Islam and Monte can't get a good night's sleep because of Israel.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

Again, what do they have to do with a commission on Palestine in 1919?

I already asked how the mind reading was accomplished; you didn't answer.

 

[montelatici]

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

People being slaughtered left and right in the name of Islam and Monte can't get a good night's sleep because of Israel.

Again, I don't get the relationship. This section's subject matter is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you want to change the subject?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

And the person who wrote that sentence of course was a mind reader of Zionists!
You ever get embarrassed by stretching your Humanism a bit far?
By the way, how are those Islamic civil wars going?

I don't understand what current "Islamic" civil wars (whatever they are) have to do with the conclusions of a 1919 Commission on Palestine? It doesn't take mind-reading to come to the conclusion, it requires reading the Commission's report and some reading comprehension.

All the blatant injustice amongst the Islamo murderers in the ME and the only obsession you have is with Israel.
You're not a very good humanist.

If Israel lets these barbarous tigers out of the cage, can you imagine all the carnage?

 

[Indeependent]

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

People being slaughtered left and right in the name of Islam and Monte can't get a good night's sleep because of Israel.

Again, I don't get the relationship. This section's subject matter is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you want to change the subject?

The only resolution to the conflict that will satisfy you will result in the Jews being driven into the Mediterranean.
You know what the Holocaust taught us?
Being nice kills.

 

[montelatici]

"Whatever they are"? Don't play innocent. Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen and Libya to some degree, etc.

Again, what do they have to do with a commission on Palestine in 1919?

I already asked how the mind reading was accomplished; you didn't answer.

And I explained that no mind reading was necessary, the report's authors spelled it out. You do have to read the report though and you have to understand what you are reading. It appears to me that all you are interested in is responding in what you think is a clever manner but it doesn't come out that way. Take a deep breath, think it through and then respond.

 

[montelatici]

People being slaughtered left and right in the name of Islam and Monte can't get a good night's sleep because of Israel.

Again, I don't get the relationship. This section's subject matter is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you want to change the subject?

The only resolution to the conflict that will satisfy you will result in the Jews being driven into the Mediterranean.
You know what the Holocaust taught us?
Being nice kills.

My goodness, now the hysterics.

 

[Indeependent]

Again, I don't get the relationship. This section's subject matter is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you want to change the subject?

The only resolution to the conflict that will satisfy you will result in the Jews being driven into the Mediterranean.
You know what the Holocaust taught us?
Being nice kills.

My goodness, now the hysterics.

Question...
Israel won how many wars against Egypt, Syria and Jordan and these Arab nations skill exist?
If Israel lost ONE of these wars, would Israel still exist?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Again, I don't get the relationship. This section's subject matter is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you want to change the subject?

The only resolution to the conflict that will satisfy you will result in the Jews being driven into the Mediterranean.
You know what the Holocaust taught us?
Being nice kills.

My goodness, now the hysterics.

To you it might be hysterics. I personally remember the string of suicide bombings after the Oslo Accords.

 

[toastman]

A place or state called Israel was not mentioned.

Territory that Israel occupied/controlled was still called Palestine.

WRONG as Israel had been recognised as a state in may 1948

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Hmmmm.

What are you trying to prove by this Tinmore??

And what are you trying to tell us when you say that ISRAEL is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreement. What are you getting at? Please tell me

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

He is trying to say that by using the phrase "southernmost tip of Palestine," means (literally) that "Palestine" was some sort of nation or state with a geographic boundary.

WRONG as Israel had been recognised as a state in may 1948

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Hmmmm.

What are you trying to prove by this Tinmore??

And what are you trying to tell us when you say that ISRAEL is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreement. What are you getting at? Please tell me

(OBSERVATION)

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

(COMMENT)

As our friend "Phoenall" in Posting 1207, as well as others, (and without regard to the much older single-commission opinion of King-Crane a half-century earlier) whatever you want to call the place holder "Palestine," in 1948 it was NOT a sovereign state. It was a territory --- unable to stand on its own, totally dependent on the administrator government (either the UK or the UNPC) which were "entirely responsible --- both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs."

There can be nothing plainer than this.

Most Respectfully,
R