I will not Bow!

[toastman]

Quote the passage that confirms what you say.

Stop it Tinmore. Your claim has been proved wrong ! Give it up !
Why are you so scared to admit you were wrong ?

No it hasn't.

Where is that quote?

Quote for which specific claim ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Stop it Tinmore. Your claim has been proved wrong ! Give it up !
Why are you so scared to admit you were wrong ?

No it hasn't.

Where is that quote?

Quote for which specific claim ?

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

 

[toastman]

No it hasn't.

Where is that quote?

Quote for which specific claim ?

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

You're the one who keeps claiming that when the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

I'm certain you do not have a link to prove it

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote for which specific claim ?

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

You're the one who keeps claiming that when the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

I'm certain you do not have a link to prove it

I do.

Rocco first.

 

[toastman]

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

You're the one who keeps claiming that when the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

I'm certain you do not have a link to prove it

I do.

Rocco first.

If you really do, then post a link

 

[P F Tinmore]

You're the one who keeps claiming that when the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

I'm certain you do not have a link to prove it

I do.

Rocco first.

If you really do, then post a link

I'm waiting for Rocco to prove his ridiculous claim.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

At the conclusion to the British Mandate, the Successor Government was the UN Palestine Commission.

The memorandum, transmitted to the Commission by the British Delegation to the United Nations, sets forth the position of the Mandatory Power with respect to the question of the successor government in Palestine after the termination of the British mandate. Pertinent excerpts from the memorandum are as follows:

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time is a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948, is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held, but so far as His Majesty's Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.​

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

No it hasn't.

Where is that quote?

Quote for which specific claim ?

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

(COMMENT)

You demand quotes that are worded such to support your agenda. Sometimes that is not possible. Sometimes, a little gray matter activity is required.

The entire purpose to the Successor Government (the UNPC) was to implement GA/RES/181(II), ending Palestine as a Territory under Mandate, and the establishment of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. This effectively ends "Palestine" as any kind of entity.

Establishment of the Commission

The resolution on the Future Government of Palestine, as adopted by the General Assembly at its one hundred twenty-eighth meeting on 29 November 1947, in paragraph 1, Section B, Part I, that “A Commission shall be set up consisting of one representatives of each of five Member States.” This Commission was charged with direct responsibility for implementing the measures recommended by the General Assembly.​

1 October 1948: Ultimate date for the establishment of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. (Paragraph 3, Section A, Part I of the resolution.)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

SOURCE: A/AC.21/7 29 January 1948

The Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected the Partition Plan and the allocated apportionment for the Arab State.

Thus, after the Declaration of Independence (DoI) for Israel, Jerusalem as a fractured city, and the unapportioned territory for the Arab State remained. Palestine was reduced and became the unallocated portion of the "former territory under the British Mandate." The new Palestine (State of) did not come into being until its DoI November 1988.

I hope this answers your question.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Indeependent]

Nothing will satisfy Tin short of invalidating Israel altogether.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

At the conclusion to the British Mandate, the Successor Government was the UN Palestine Commission.

The memorandum, transmitted to the Commission by the British Delegation to the United Nations, sets forth the position of the Mandatory Power with respect to the question of the successor government in Palestine after the termination of the British mandate. Pertinent excerpts from the memorandum are as follows:

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time is a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948, is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held, but so far as His Majesty's Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.​

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

That the end of the mandate was the end of Palestine.

(COMMENT)

You demand quotes that are worded such to support your agenda. Sometimes that is not possible. Sometimes, a little gray matter activity is required.

The entire purpose to the Successor Government (the UNPC) was to implement GA/RES/181(II), ending Palestine as a Territory under Mandate, and the establishment of independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. This effectively ends "Palestine" as any kind of entity.

Establishment of the Commission

The resolution on the Future Government of Palestine, as adopted by the General Assembly at its one hundred twenty-eighth meeting on 29 November 1947, in paragraph 1, Section B, Part I, that “A Commission shall be set up consisting of one representatives of each of five Member States.” This Commission was charged with direct responsibility for implementing the measures recommended by the General Assembly.​

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

SOURCE: A/AC.21/7 29 January 1948

The Arab Higher Committee (AHC) rejected the Partition Plan and the allocated apportionment for the Arab State.

Thus, after the Declaration of Independence (DoI) for Israel, Jerusalem as a fractured city, and the unapportioned territory for the Arab State remained. Palestine was reduced and became the unallocated portion of the "former territory under the British Mandate." The new Palestine (State of) did not come into being until its DoI November 1988.

I hope this answers your question.

Most Respectfully,
R

I thought that the right to self determination without external interference included the right to their own government not one imposed on them by foreigners.

 

[Indeependent]

Guess you were wrong.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a different question all together.

I thought that the right to self determination without external interference included the right to their own government not one imposed on them by foreigners.

(COMMENT)

What the "right to self determination" means has evolved over time. Similarly, the use of the phrase "external interference" has been manipulated over time.

It has been a long standing practice for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), to conjure justification arguments using these two principles.

However, these two principles are just as applicable to the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence. In fact, the actual application of these two principles are demonstrated by the events surrounding the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence; more so than by the Arabs. In the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence, the HoAP attempted to interrupt by force, the Jewish "right to self determination" to do so; and the introduction of Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a different question all together.

I thought that the right to self determination without external interference included the right to their own government not one imposed on them by foreigners.

(COMMENT)

What the "right to self determination" means has evolved over time. Similarly, the use of the phrase "external interference" has been manipulated over time.

It has been a long standing practice for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), to conjure justification arguments using these two principles.

However, these two principles are just as applicable to the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence. In fact, the actual application of these two principles are demonstrated by the events surrounding the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence; more so than by the Arabs. In the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence, the HoAP attempted to interrupt by force, the Jewish "right to self determination" to do so; and the introduction of Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

Most Respectfully,
R

So you are saying that the Arabs were an external interference to foreigners creating their state in Palestine?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess I have to use less complicated language. I'm always being misunderstood.

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a different question all together.

I thought that the right to self determination without external interference included the right to their own government not one imposed on them by foreigners.

(COMMENT)

What the "right to self determination" means has evolved over time. Similarly, the use of the phrase "external interference" has been manipulated over time.

It has been a long standing practice for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), to conjure justification arguments using these two principles.

However, these two principles are just as applicable to the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence. In fact, the actual application of these two principles are demonstrated by the events surrounding the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence; more so than by the Arabs. In the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence, the HoAP attempted to interrupt by force, the Jewish "right to self determination" to do so; and the introduction of Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

So you are saying that the Arabs were an external interference to foreigners creating their state in Palestine?

(COMMENT)

I think I said: Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

Military elements of 5 separate Arab nations crossed their borders and forceable entered the sovereign territory for the newly declared State of Israel.

Note: This does not include the prepositioned, forward deployed elements of the Arab League.​

So, yes! In the case of the Arab League, they were an "external interference" to the UNPC implementation of the Partition Plan; "by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess I have to use less complicated language. I'm always being misunderstood.

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a different question all together.


(COMMENT)

What the "right to self determination" means has evolved over time. Similarly, the use of the phrase "external interference" has been manipulated over time.

It has been a long standing practice for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), to conjure justification arguments using these two principles.

However, these two principles are just as applicable to the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence. In fact, the actual application of these two principles are demonstrated by the events surrounding the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence; more so than by the Arabs. In the Jewish Agency Declaration of Independence, the HoAP attempted to interrupt by force, the Jewish "right to self determination" to do so; and the introduction of Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

So you are saying that the Arabs were an external interference to foreigners creating their state in Palestine?

(COMMENT)

I think I said: Arab League military forces was a form of "external interference."

Military elements of 5 separate Arab nations crossed their borders and forceable entered the sovereign territory for the newly declared State of Israel.

Note: This does not include the prepositioned, forward deployed elements of the Arab League.​

So, yes! In the case of the Arab League, they were an "external interference" to the UNPC implementation of the Partition Plan; "by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue."

Most Respectfully,
R

You never did show where those Arab armies crossed the border into Israel.

 

[Phoenall]

Try reading Deuteronomy 7:7 and then get back to us on who needs to worry.

What doe Pbel think is going to happen?? That hundreds of millions of Arabs are going to gather at Israels borders and try to take over Israel?? LOL

Toast, If that happened, Israel would run out of bullets and lose...No, wars of attrition are a slow process where Demographics and resistance and little skirmishes wear out the defenders of their tiny fortress...The constant danger of attack is very expensive in money and the cost of blood makes people leave the danger...

So why hasn't Israel been destroyed in the last 65 years. 1948 they had rusty old guns and took on the combined arab armies and kicked them back into the 7c. Twice after that the arab armies tried to invade and were destroyed by the Israeli's. That is why you are talking out of your arse about the conflict, Israel holds the upper hand and could destroy Palestine in one fell swoop

The Superpowers of the past have all left not because they wanted to, but for the cost of constant resistance.

And still the problems go on and the Palestinians lose more and more people because they love war more than they love their children

The ONLY thing that can stop this grinding process is acceptance...Jews and Muslims have shared the same space for thousands of years. Peace for two or 3 generations and positive trade with the ME will gain the acceptance Israel needs...Look at the Arabs within Israel's present borders...All relatively happy...A little prosperity goes a long way.

BULLSHIT the Jews were a downtrodden race from 632 C.E. till 1948 when they took control of their own lives. They were the slaves of the muslims and were beaten on a whim, their women raped repeatedly. The muslims do not want a nation of Jews with self determination anywhere in the world as it reminds them of their religious commands to kill the Jews.

Group dynamics are universal and predictable.

More so when the group is force fed violence and bloodshed for 1400 years because the Jews refused to lay down and worship their prophet.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine was whatever the Allied Powers says it iwas.

Bingo! That is what I have been saying all along.

All of the successor states were under mandate. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advice until it could stand alone. It did not, could not alter borders or nationality.

The mandate and Palestine were separate entities. When the mandate left Palestine, Palestine was still there inside its international borders.

(COMMENT)

Again, you are wrong. Understand, one more time, what it means when you say: "Palestine" (Back then it was not a country or a nationality beyond anything the Allied Powers said.)

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.

SOURCE: The Palestine Order in Council

The word Palestine means the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.

What happens when the mandate is terminate, "Palestine is terminated." They are one and the same thing.

OR, to correct your statement:

• When the mandate left Palestine, Palestine was no longer there inside its international borders.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you have a link that says that?

More to the point do you have a link that says it didn't ?

Simple answer if there are no links either way then the negative will always win, in this case when the mandate ended so did your alleged nation of Palestine as it changed hands again

 

[Phoenall]

"...Look at the Arabs within Israel's present borders...All relatively happy..."

Those who chose to stay behind and to collaborate and become citizens were rewarded.

Those who chose to leave, and to fight, cannot (and will not) be trusted to behave in the same way.

Too much at stake to take such a chance.

It's Israel's ONLY chance!

You lot have been saying that since 1948, guess you are losing all your money betting on the losers. Israel does not have to do anything but keep on defending its citizens and the Palestinians will wipe themselves out

 

[Phoenall]

Toast, If that happened, Israel would run out of bullets and lose...No, wars of attrition are a slow process where Demographics and resistance and little skirmishes wear out the defenders of their tiny fortress...The constant danger of attack is very expensive in money and the cost of blood makes people leave the danger...

The Superpowers of the past have all left not because they wanted to, but for the cost of constant resistance.

The ONLY thing that can stop this grinding process is acceptance...Jews and Muslims have shared the same space for thousands of years. Peace for two or 3 generations and positive trade with the ME will gain the acceptance Israel needs...Look at the Arabs within Israel's present borders...All relatively happy...A little prosperity goes a long way.

Group dynamics are universal and predictable.

They wouldn't run out of bullets. If hundreds of millions of Arabs gathered around Israels borders trying to take over the country, Israel wouldn't have to use a single bullet. All that's needed ins a couple of nukes to eliminate the threat, and any reserve Arabs would not be able to approach the border like their roasted friends because of a nuclear fallout.

Of course, such a situation would never occur.

Now, concerning your prediction that Israel will 'tire out' because of all the future skirmishes and what not....I don't buy that. Anyone who attacks Israel in even the slightest way gets hit so hard, they think twice before attacking Israel again.
Also, you need to understand just how patriotic Israels citizens and soldiers are.

Now you actually believe that Israel going back to the '67 borders and allowing right of return is going to make the Arabs accept her existence???? That's a load of crap !
As a matter of fact, doing so will make Israel wayyyy harder to defend herself AND give Israel serious demographic issues.

Pbel, there are plenty of Muslim in the ME who truly believe it is Allah's will for them to destroy Israel. And they are ready to give up their life to do so.

Israel will NEVER return to the '67 borders
Israel will NEVER allow right of return
Israel will NEVER divide Jerusalem

........and rightfully so

We're going to call you Dr. Toastlove...If Israel uses nukes, Pakistan will destroy her.

Then India destroys Pakistan, and also targets the other Islamic nations in the area. Before you know it the USA has been nuked by Russia and China. And Israel is still there

 

[Phoenall]

We're going to call you Dr. Toastlove...If Israel uses nukes, Pakistan will destroy her.

LOL that was a hypothetical situation. It would never happen. But of course you would have no problem with millions of Arabs trying to destroy Israel.
Oh, and why would Pakistan commit suicide by nuking another country??

Because the Saudis paid for the Pakistani nuke program and will act on their orders... the suicide would be Israel's considering all the hundreds of thousands WMDs now currently in various Arab countries.

Israelis nuking the Arabs is insanity.

Just as Pakistan throwing all that aid away is also insanity, they would never use their nukes on Israel as India would wipe them out. The Pakistani's would have to fire every single one of their nukes to be sure of hitting the target, killing many in the surrounding nations in the process. So for every Jew killed at least a 1,000 muslims would also perish, then every Pakistani would also perish when India fired its nukes at them

 

[Phoenall]

Because the Saudis paid for the Pakistani nuke program and will act on their orders... the suicide would be Israel's considering all the hundreds of thousands WMDs now currently in various Arab countries.

Israelis nuking the Arabs is insanity.

What Arab countries are you referring to that have WMD'S ? Link ?

Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel has signed but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC).[14] In 1983 a report by the CIA stated that Israel, after "finding itself surrounded by frontline Arab states with budding CW capabilities, became increasingly conscious of its vulnerability to chemical attack... undertook a program of chemical warfare preparations in both offensive and protective areas... In late 1982 a probable CW nerve agent production facility and a storage facility were identified at the Dimona Sensitive Storage Area in the Negev Desert. Other CW agent production is believed to exist within a well-developed Israeli chemical industry."[15]

There are also speculations that a chemical weapons program might be located at the Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR[16]) in Ness Ziona.[17]

190 liters of dimethyl methylphosphonate, a CWC schedule 2 chemical used in the synthesis of sarin nerve gas, was discovered in the cargo of El Al Flight 1862 after it crashed in 1992 en route to Tel Aviv. Israel insisted the material was non-toxic, was to have been used to test filters that protect against chemical weapons, and that it had been clearly listed on the cargo manifest in accordance with international regulations. The shipment was from a U.S. chemical plant to the IIBR under a U.S. Department of Commerce license.[18]

In 1993, the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment WMD proliferation assessment recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities.[2] Former US deputy assistant secretary of defense responsible for chemical and biological defense, Bill Richardson, said in 1998 "I have no doubt that Israel has worked on both chemical and biological offensive things for a long time... There's no doubt they've had stuff for years

Now answer the question
What Arab countries are you referring to that have WMD'S ? Link