I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

Interesting, given that less than six hours elapsed between the DoI and the attack by the Arab League Armies. How could it have time to thumb its nose at anything?

Israel violated the proposed borders, Jerusalem, and the rights of the non Jewish population before its declaration.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who's country?

The Palestinians had no country.

Lets look at the facts.

Palestine was defined by international borders.

The Palestinians became a distinct nation of people upon the break up of the Ottoman Empire.

The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine by law.

Several sources called Palestine a state.

The British Mandate text called Palestine a country 11 times.

Where did you get your opinion that Palestine was not a country?

 

[Phoenall]

Yes, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), of the Arab League, rejected it. (resolution 181) That has no impact on the ability and competency of the Jewish Agency to accept its potion of the Partition offer.

That differs from what the British and Security Council said.

Every link that you have provided to date has said the exact opposite to what you claim they say. Un 181 made the distinction either/or in which side needed to declare independence, it is there in the resolution. It is also there in the minutes of the UNSC acceptance of Israel's declaration of independence. The British had no say in the matter once they had handed control to the UN

 

[Phoenall]

Interesting, given that less than six hours elapsed between the DoI and the attack by the Arab League Armies. How could it have time to thumb its nose at anything?

Israel violated the proposed borders, Jerusalem, and the rights of the non Jewish population before its declaration.

In what way, was it in answer to hostile arab attacks by any chance ?

 

[docmauser1]

Who's country?The Palestinians had no country.

Lets look at the facts. Palestine was defined by international borders. The Palestinians became a distinct nation of people upon the break up of the Ottoman Empire. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine by law. Several sources called Palestine a state. The British Mandate text called Palestine a country 11 times. Where did you get your opinion that Palestine was not a country?

Who was that shakh, effendi, emir, sultan, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "country".

 

[toastman]

LOL you're so full of shit.

IF you;re right, then please show me the link concerning the 1948 Arab ISraeli war and the events preceding it. I've asked you this 10 times

Oh and BTW, there was no country to TAKEOVER. Not only that, but the European Jews were invited and their immigration was fascilitated by the RULERS OF THE LAND. The Palestinian Arabs had no right to say weather or weather not the British could help the Jews immigrate

You really do not want to know but here.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7dMhE80dw]Alnakba English P1 - YouTube[/ame]

You get you information from the Al Jazeera ??

HAHAHAHAHAHA well that explains why everything you say is wrong

 

[P F Tinmore]

You really do not want to know but here.

Alnakba English P1 - YouTube

You get you information from the Al Jazeera ??

HAHAHAHAHAHA well that explains why everything you say is wrong

A compilation of British, Israeli, US, and other documents and recorded news reports.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[toastman]

Who's country?

The Palestinians had no country.

Lets look at the facts.

Palestine was defined by international borders.

The Palestinians became a distinct nation of people upon the break up of the Ottoman Empire.

The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine by law.

Several sources called Palestine a state.

The British Mandate text called Palestine a country 11 times.

Where did you get your opinion that Palestine was not a country?

There is absolutely no history of Palestine being a country during this time. Nothing you say will change that.

If they were a country, why did they declare independence in 1948 and 1988?
Why did the Partition Plan mention the partition of a territory ?
Why is there no history of this place being a country?


Palestine, officially the State of Palestine (Arabic: دولة فلسطين* Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a de facto sovereign state.[13][14] Its independence was declared on 15 November 1988 by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and its government-in-exile in Algiers.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[toastman]

You get you information from the Al Jazeera ??

HAHAHAHAHAHA well that explains why everything you say is wrong

A compilation of British, Israeli, US, and other documents and recorded news reports.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ya, sure !!

So you get you information from a propaganda source. It's all starting to make sense.

 

[toastman]

For ***** sake Tinmore, you can't even tell us WHEN Palestine became a country.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A compilation of British, Israeli, US, and other documents and recorded news reports.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ya, sure !!

So you get you information from a propaganda source. It's all starting to make sense.

British, Israeli, US, and other documents and recorded news reports are propaganda sources?

Oh yeah, and interviews of historians from several different countries.

 

[P F Tinmore]

For ***** sake Tinmore, you can't even tell us WHEN Palestine became a country.

Did too.

August 6, 1924

 

[toastman]

For ***** sake Tinmore, you can't even tell us WHEN Palestine became a country.

Did too.

August 6, 1924

Ah yes, the Laussanne treaty, where there is no mention of Palestine being made a country for the Palestinians.

You still didn't answer my questions. Read my previous posts

 

[toastman]

Ya, sure !!

So you get you information from a propaganda source. It's all starting to make sense.

British, Israeli, US, and other documents and recorded news reports are propaganda sources?

Oh yeah, and interviews of historians from several different countries.

I'll watch the video later. Either way, I'm certain it will paint a different picture about the 1948 war and the events preceding it

 

[P F Tinmore]

For ***** sake Tinmore, you can't even tell us WHEN Palestine became a country.

Did too.

August 6, 1924

Ah yes, the Laussanne treaty, where there is no mention of Palestine being made a country for the Palestinians.

You still didn't answer my questions. Read my previous posts

It didn't mention any of the successor states in the region. It did, however, release them from Turkish rule so that succession could take place.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Nonsense.

Who's country?

The Palestinians had no country.

Lets look at the facts.

Palestine was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

Yes, it was defined by the territory which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Principal Allied Powers. It had nothing to do with the people inhabiting the area, territory, or region.

The Palestinians became a distinct nation of people upon the break up of the Ottoman Empire.

(COMMENT)

No. The people assumed a distinction that was given by Mandate and the Allied Powers.

The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine by law.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the law as created and written by the Allied Powers.

Several sources called Palestine a state.

The British Mandate text called Palestine a country 11 times.

(COMMENT)

No official source calls Palestine a State until after it Declaration of Independence in November 1988.

You have to understand what the "term" Palestine means, and where it came from.

1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

SOURCE: The Palestine Order in Council, 1922

Where did you get your opinion that Palestine was not a country?

(COMMENT)

I don't image things that are not. The term "Palestine" refers to the territory for which Mandate for Palestine applies; nothing more. Where did you get the impression it was a state? If the answer is the statements you've made above, I urge you to reevaluate.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Read the Treaty.

For ***** sake Tinmore, you can't even tell us WHEN Palestine became a country.

Did too.

August 6, 1924

(COMMENT)

As we discussed in Posting #950, there is nothing in the Lausanne Treaty to suggest that Palestine was made a separate country. Palestine is not mentioned in the Treaty. It was inclusive territory under Article 3 (Territorial Clause), called Syria. It was exempt from the Boundary Commission determinations by the treaty. This use, claim or interpretation of the Treaty language to suggest the Treaty (somehow) conferred statehood or recognized a new nation of "Palestine" is bogus.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

My, my, my...

All this lather and sweat and high blood pressure over Palestinian spin-doctoring about Treaty A or B and whether or not we should interpret them as having had a Magic Wand waved over their heads and somebody sprinkling Magic Sovereignty Fairy Dust over their heads and implying that they were a 'country' as of such-and-so a date...

In the Real World, if you have never been officially recognized as a sovereign and self-ruling and autonomous nation, complete with diplomatic relations or status amongst powers that actually count or amount to something, and unless you have a track record of self-government and a cultural and social and political and economic identity that is recognized by the outside world as something unique to yourselves, then you are not a 'Nation', in any practical and meaningful sense of the word.

That is doubly true if you have to conjure-up Magic Moments where Foreign Government A, in connection with Foreign Government B and Foreign Government C, entered into some Treaty or another which obliquely and obscurely implied, intentionally or by latter-day revisionist interpretation and partisan spin-doctoring - that you might have attained the status of 'Nation' on Alternating Tuesdays when your Council of Grand Poobahs stood on one foot, and only if the Grand Mufti's great-aunt was wearing a blue burqha with slit-to-the-thigh cutaway segments.

Bahhhhhhh... Humbug... really weak mojo... if you've never been a self-governing country within the framework of your present dominant population demographic, then you've never truly been a country.

Which is the case here... the Palestinians are an artificial, fabricated, latter-day construct designed to provide an over-arching umbrella label for the disagreeably diverse Arab-Muslim population fragments residing in Old Palestine (and today's Rump Palestine)... they were never a unified People, and they were never a Country or Nation in their own right.

'Palestine', as a noun, is merely a time-worn placeholder descriptor for a given region, and 'Palestinian' is merely a convenience-label for the diverse and degenerate and impotent descendants of the Arabs who flooded and conquered the region some centuries ago, and some of the surrender monkeys of even older local blood-stock, who caved-in under the pressure of conquest and Dhimmitude, and who found it easier to go over to the Dark Side.

Eventually, Nature was bound to de-select such weak and degenerate stock.

As seems to be happening in our own times.

Palestine = a sovereign nation, prior to 1948?

Don't make me laugh.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who's country?

The Palestinians had no country.

Lets look at the facts.

Palestine was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

Yes, it was defined by the territory which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Principal Allied Powers. It had nothing to do with the people inhabiting the area, territory, or region.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

The eastern border of Palestine with Trans-Jordan was of particular significance.

Subsequently, on 16 September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations passed a resolution by which it approved a proposal submitted by Britain to exclude Trans-Jordan from the scope of Palestine’s territory.9 Ultimately, the border between Palestine and Trans-Jordan was fixed as suggested by Britain.

With regard to the northern border of Palestine, Britain and France (the occupying powers at the time, and later the mandatory powers over Syria and Lebanon respectively) signed an agreement which settled key aspects relating to the Palestinian-Syrian-Lebanese border (Paris, 23 December 1920).

The southwestern border of Palestine with Egypt dates back to the late 19th century. Originally, this border was drawn up on a de facto basis, as the Ottoman Empire recognized Egypt’s autonomy.27 Formally, however, two border agreements between the Ottoman Empire and Egypt were reached in 1906.

The separation of Egypt from Turkey (Palestine, in this instance), as of 5 November 1914, was ultimately recognized by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians became a distinct nation of people upon the break up of the Ottoman Empire.

No. The people assumed a distinction that was given by Mandate and the Allied Powers.

The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine by law.

Yes, the law as created and written by the Allied Powers.

The Treaty of Peace between the allied powers and Turkey officially ending World War I was signed in Lausanne, Switzerland, on 24 July 1923.121 Setting out the legal status of the territories detached from Turkey, the Treaty had the effect of law in Palestine, as it was extended to this country by an ordinance,122 on 6 August 1924.

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

Article 30 is of a great significance. It constituted a declaration of existing international law and the standard practice of states. This was despite the absence of a definite international law rule of state succession under which the nationals of predecessor state could ipso facto acquire the nationality of the successor.129 “As a rule, however, States have conferred their nationality on the former nationals of the predecessor State.”130 In practice, almost all peace treaties concluded between the Allies and other states at the end of World War I embodied nationality provisions similar to those of the Treaty of Lausanne. The inhabitants of Palestine, as the successors of this territory, henceforth acquired Palestinian nationality even if there was no treaty with Turkey.131

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel