I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come now.


(COMMENT)

The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then. On the other hand, the Arab Legion, with the direct protection of the Mandatory (UK) was partially pre-positioned by then across the Jordan River.

The Jewish State in Resolution 181(II) as defined in the Resolution was accepted.

It should be noted, since you mentioned the Internationalization of Jerusalem, that it was the Arab Legion that destroyed the Jewish Quarter.

Most Respectfully,
R

The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then.

Come on yourself, Rocco. Could you have possibly come up with a more stupid excuse than that?

Huh??? What excuse are you talking about? He's stating a fact.

I notice you always ignore Israels declaration of independence. You never mention it, and when someone else does, you change the subject or say something not related to it. Why is that?

How can I ignore Israel's declaration of independence? I have heard about it a gazillion times. More recently it is that Israel declared independence before Palestine so Palestine's declaration does not count. Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel.

Herein lies the problem. One of the tenets of a state is a defined territory. When I ask where this defined territory is, nobody knows. When I ask for a 1948 map of Israel, nobody can find one.

When I look in the 1949 armistice agreements Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

So, when people say that Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel they can't post anything to show their statement to be true.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel acquired more land as a result of the 1948-1949 War, not before. As for Jerusalem, there has never been an "international" city in the history of the world. Mecca and the Vatican are not international cities.

In actual fact Israel lost land due to the 1948/1949 war and did not reclaim it until 1967.

Under the Partition Plan, Israel would've been even narrower than the Armistice Lines of 1949.

Yet it still lost land on its eastern side to Jordan, this land was not recovered till 1967, and the bleeding heart liberals screech about the Jews stealing land when it was theirs in the first place. Also the fantasy '67 borders take land away from Israel which is why the ragheads and anti semites want them so bad.

 

[Phoenall]

General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine



‘ Non-Member Observer State’ Status in United Nations


Objective to ‘Breath New Life’ into Peace Process, Says Palestinian President;

Israel’s Delegate Counters, Without Direct Negotiations, Peace Remains ‘Out of Reach’


Voting by an overwhelming majority — 138 in favour to 9 against (Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Panama, Palau, United States), with 41 abstentions — the General Assembly today accorded Palestine non-Member Observer State status in the United Nations.


“The moment has arrived for the world to say clearly: enough of aggression, settlements and occupation,” said Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian Authority, as he called on the 193-member body to “issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine”. Indeed, following Israel’s latest aggression against the Gaza Strip, the international community now faced “the last chance” to save the long elusive two-State solution, he said, adding: “the window of opportunity is narrowing and time is quickly running out”.

So were is the mention of '67 borders then, or did you slip that LIE in hoping that it would be missed. You need to try much harder than this if you want to get one over on the decent people of the world.

General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

United Nations


The international community should use influence on Israel, he said, to compel it to immediately stop all its unilateral policies which resulted in the freezing of peace negotiations. The United Arab Emirates would continue its political support and development aid to the Palestinian Authority, led by President Abbas. Israel must immediately end all its aggressive policies against the Palestinian people, and fully withdraw from all Palestinian and Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, the Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied Lebanese territories.


Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ..... He went on to say that Palestine did not seek to delegitimize a State established .... an independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital within its 1967 borders.

Still no mention of the UN recognising Palestine to the non existent 1967 borders, posting the rant by the Palestinian representative is not proof of the borders.

WHY DO YOU COMPOUND YOUR LIES WITH MORE LIES YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE CAUGHT OUT. ALL YOU DO IS DELIGITIMIZE THE HoAP CLAIMS FOR PALESTINE WHEN YOU DO SO, IT IS DISINGENIUS AND ANTI SEMITIC TO MAKE ONE SIDED FALSE CLAIMS.

Now an apology is in order for your falsehood, anytime today will do.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come now.

By the time Israel declared independence it had already violated the proposed borders, the international city of Jerusalem, and the rights of the non Jewish population.

What part of resolution 181 did it accept?

(COMMENT)

The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then. On the other hand, the Arab Legion, with the direct protection of the Mandatory (UK) was partially pre-positioned by then across the Jordan River.

The Jewish State in Resolution 181(II) as defined in the Resolution was accepted.

It should be noted, since you mentioned the Internationalization of Jerusalem, that it was the Arab Legion that destroyed the Jewish Quarter.

Most Respectfully,
R

The State of Israel did not come into effect until midnight 14/15 May. I could not have possibly violated any border prior to that because Part II - Boundaries, Section B - Jewish State, did not come into effect until then.

Come on yourself, Rocco. Could you have possibly come up with a more stupid excuse than that?

Not an excuse but reality and the facts that destroy your LIES time after time. Just as your LIE about the UN recognising Paleatine to the fantasy 67 borders, destroyed and you shown to be a LIAR

 

[Phoenall]

Come on yourself, Rocco. Could you have possibly come up with a more stupid excuse than that?

Huh??? What excuse are you talking about? He's stating a fact.

I notice you always ignore Israels declaration of independence. You never mention it, and when someone else does, you change the subject or say something not related to it. Why is that?

How can I ignore Israel's declaration of independence? I have heard about it a gazillion times. More recently it is that Israel declared independence before Palestine so Palestine's declaration does not count. Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel.

Correct as it goes against the UN charter, but it could have declared on the land allocated under the partition plan

Herein lies the problem. One of the tenets of a state is a defined territory. When I ask where this defined territory is, nobody knows. When I ask for a 1948 map of Israel, nobody can find one.
The defined territory was that allocated by the partition plan that went out the window as soon as the HoAP attacked Israel with the intention of stealing the land and ethnically cleansing it of the Jews. So the only maps are those of 1947 and the partition plan, blame your heros for that
When I look in the 1949 armistice agreements Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

WHY DO YOU LIE the agreements mention Israel but not Palestine. No Palestinian borders are even mentioned and the maps show this to be a fact

Note the colours that define the 1948 map of Israel and the 1949 armistice lines, or green line.
So, when people say that Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel they can't post anything to show their statement to be true.

Just done so and now you will have to shut up with your FILTHY ANTI SEMITIC NAZI LIES

 

[toastman]

Come on yourself, Rocco. Could you have possibly come up with a more stupid excuse than that?

Huh??? What excuse are you talking about? He's stating a fact.

I notice you always ignore Israels declaration of independence. You never mention it, and when someone else does, you change the subject or say something not related to it. Why is that?

How can I ignore Israel's declaration of independence? I have heard about it a gazillion times. More recently it is that Israel declared independence before Palestine so Palestine's declaration does not count. Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel.

Herein lies the problem. One of the tenets of a state is a defined territory. When I ask where this defined territory is, nobody knows. When I ask for a 1948 map of Israel, nobody can find one.

When I look in the 1949 armistice agreements Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

So, when people say that Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel they can't post anything to show their statement to be true.

When I ask where this defined territory is, nobody knows

We showed you. But then you come up with you "when did the Palestinians transfer this land to Israel?" which of course has nothing to do with nothing. Rocco explained to you that transfering of land is a real estate concept and has nothing to do with this.

When I look in the 1949 armistice agreements Palestine is mentioned many times. Israel is not mentioned. Palestine's international borders are mentioned. No borders are mentioned for Israel.

What does the fact that the word 'Israel' is not mentioned have to do with anything?? The 1949 armistice agreements gave Israel Cease Fire lines, not borders. How can Israel have borders with any of those countries surrounding it if a peace treaty (or a permanent cessation to hostilities) has not been signed between them? 1949 was wayyyy before Israel signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan. I have no problem showing you the link AGAIN, if you'd like.

So, when people say that Palestine cannot declare independence on land already claimed by Israel they can't post anything to show their statement to be true.

Just because you don't understand our explanations, doesn't mean we showed you nothing to be true. It's a very simple concept. Israel LEGALLY declared independence on the land allotted to it in Resolution 181. How can someone else declare independence on the SAME LAND AS ANOTHER COUNTRY. Answer; not possible. BTW, why didn't Palestine declare independence before Israel?? They had plenty of time, the way I see it.

Legality of the declaration:
After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

After the bold writing, you will see what it says about how 'Palestine' did not become a state. Further proof that their declaration of Independence in 1948 never amounted to anything. It was purely symbolic the way I see it.

Also, we've shown you how the real DOI by the Palestinians was in 1988. Type in 'Palestinian Declaration of Independence' in the search engine, and they will all show you the one in 1988.

 

[pbel]

So were is the mention of '67 borders then, or did you slip that LIE in hoping that it would be missed. You need to try much harder than this if you want to get one over on the decent people of the world.

General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

United Nations


The international community should use influence on Israel, he said, to compel it to immediately stop all its unilateral policies which resulted in the freezing of peace negotiations. The United Arab Emirates would continue its political support and development aid to the Palestinian Authority, led by President Abbas. Israel must immediately end all its aggressive policies against the Palestinian people, and fully withdraw from all Palestinian and Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, the Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied Lebanese territories.


Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ..... He went on to say that Palestine did not seek to delegitimize a State established .... an independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital within its 1967 borders.

Still no mention of the UN recognising Palestine to the non existent 1967 borders, posting the rant by the Palestinian representative is not proof of the borders.

WHY DO YOU COMPOUND YOUR LIES WITH MORE LIES YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE CAUGHT OUT. ALL YOU DO IS DELIGITIMIZE THE HoAP CLAIMS FOR PALESTINE WHEN YOU DO SO, IT IS DISINGENIUS AND ANTI SEMITIC TO MAKE ONE SIDED FALSE CLAIMS.

Now an apology is in order for your falsehood, anytime today will do.

Poor Ptoenail just can't seem to read or have the logic to add a simple sum; The UN and everybody who writes clearly mention the 67 borders...Not only that no one on planet earth including the UN and USA have ever recognized any annexations past the green line....

Well post proof of otherwise.




General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*





United Nations





Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ... Palestine came before the Assembly because it believed in peace, and because .... Palestinian State based on 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, and a .... It would show that the world would not accept the continuation of the occupation.


Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free ...



en.wikipedia.org/.../Israel,_Palestine,_and_the_United_Natio...*





Wikipedia





In 1982, the phrase "Occupied Palestinian Territories" became the usual name. ... In October 1993, for the first time since 1981, the Arab members of the UN did .... has an automatic majority," and that the vote "proved that the United States is the ... Nations, endorses the two state solution based on the pre-1967 borders

 

[docmauser1]

The UN and everybody who writes clearly mention the 67 borders...

Well, they don't exist. Aren't The UN and everybody who writes ..., funny arseholes?

Not only that no one on planet earth including the UN and USA have ever recognized any annexations past the green line....

While the EU subsidizes the turkish occupation of the Northern Cyprus, funny too.

 

[Phoenall]

General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

United Nations


The international community should use influence on Israel, he said, to compel it to immediately stop all its unilateral policies which resulted in the freezing of peace negotiations. The United Arab Emirates would continue its political support and development aid to the Palestinian Authority, led by President Abbas. Israel must immediately end all its aggressive policies against the Palestinian people, and fully withdraw from all Palestinian and Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, the Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied Lebanese territories.


Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ..... He went on to say that Palestine did not seek to delegitimize a State established .... an independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital within its 1967 borders.

Still no mention of the UN recognising Palestine to the non existent 1967 borders, posting the rant by the Palestinian representative is not proof of the borders.

WHY DO YOU COMPOUND YOUR LIES WITH MORE LIES YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE CAUGHT OUT. ALL YOU DO IS DELIGITIMIZE THE HoAP CLAIMS FOR PALESTINE WHEN YOU DO SO, IT IS DISINGENIUS AND ANTI SEMITIC TO MAKE ONE SIDED FALSE CLAIMS.

Now an apology is in order for your falsehood, anytime today will do.

Poor Ptoenail just can't seem to read or have the logic to add a simple sum; The UN and everybody who writes clearly mention the 67 borders...Not only that no one on planet earth including the UN and USA have ever recognized any annexations past the green line....

Well post proof of otherwise.




General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine 'Non ...



https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/.../ga11317.doc.ht...*





United Nations





Nov 29, 2012 - Non-Member Observer State' Status in United Nations ... Palestine came before the Assembly because it believed in peace, and because .... Palestinian State based on 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, and a .... It would show that the world would not accept the continuation of the occupation.


Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free ...



en.wikipedia.org/.../Israel,_Palestine,_and_the_United_Natio...*





Wikipedia





In 1982, the phrase "Occupied Palestinian Territories" became the usual name. ... In October 1993, for the first time since 1981, the Arab members of the UN did .... has an automatic majority," and that the vote "proved that the United States is the ... Nations, endorses the two state solution based on the pre-1967 borders

Try again as there is no mention in any UN official documents of Palestine being recognised in the 1967 borders, there cant be as they never existed. You are trying to pass off the words of the Palestinian representative as official UN acceptance and everyone can see through your LIE

You can post as many part press releases as you want it will not change the reality and here is the official UN document that says the borders never existed

S/RES/242 (1967) of 22 November 1967

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

Now were are the '67 borders mentioned in the '67 UN resolution

 

[Phoenall]

The UN and everybody who writes clearly mention the 67 borders...

Well, they don't exist. Aren't The UN and everybody who writes ..., funny arseholes?

Not only that no one on planet earth including the UN and USA have ever recognized any annexations past the green line....

While the EU subsidizes the turkish occupation of the Northern Cyprus, funny too.

Here is the reality the UN does not mention any '67 borders at all. Here is the official release

S/RES/242 (1967) of 22 November 1967

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

As has been said before, in the discussion group - and in the news, the current talks had a so-so chance of success. Peace cannot really be achieved if neither side is ready to compromise. And it doesn't appear that either side is will (so far) to make the hard choices.

So, it looks like the Palestinians will lose out again on the potential for stability that will bring economic prosperity to their piece of the region.

The status quo looks like it will return and the Israeli Settlement Programs will continue on --- until the noose tightens and the Palestinians choke on the cord around their crippled economy; a process they set in motion more than half a century ago.

In the mean time, while the Israelis the lack of a meaningful agreement with the Palestinians has an economic impact on the entire region. Israel costs to provide gas and oil to the adjacent states, without well rounded peace settlement with the Palestinians, limits the potential sales to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey. So it is going to be forced in building a superstructure that favors trade with Europe. This further and unnecessarily penalizes the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Neither the Gaza Government or the West Bank Government can afford to live indefinitely on the handouts from the US and other Arab League contributors. You run into what they call "donor fatigue." And the factional Palestinians cannot generate sufficient revenues to maintain the current standard of living. Since the discover of the Levantine basin of the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, donor aid for the Palestinians has dropped by 40% or more; with donor disappointment in the peace talk process and meaningful results.

Israel has already launched a gas platform operations (March 2013) in the Tamar gas field (estimated 9.1 trillion cubic feet of natural gas) in the Mediterranean, just east of the Leviathan Field, just 24 miles off the port city of Ashkelon, and the Tamar-1 Rig has delivered more than 28 Million Cubic Feet per Day of gas during peak demand periods. There are plans for a totally of 6 Rigs, in just the Tamar Field.

The lack of progress in the Talks will inflect pain on both sides of the table, but more so on the Palestinian side. It is in everyone's best interest in the immediate region, for the Israelis and Palestinians to come to some sort of arrangement. We need to break the mold that always brings us back to UN Agreements and policy stances that are a half-century old. They have long sing lost relevance as some form of viable solution or negotiation parameter.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Rocco, Abbas has already stated that there will be no peace deal unless Israel moves back to the 1967 borders (I believe he even said no land swaps), until all Israelis are gone from the west bank, until all prisoners post Olso accords are released and of course my favorite one, until Israel allows right of return.
The current peace talks are fake. When I say fake, I mean although both sides are negotiating, in reality, they both no a peace deal will not be reached.

 

[Phoenall]

Rocco, Abbas has already stated that there will be no peace deal unless Israel moves back to the 1967 borders (I believe he even said no land swaps), until all Israelis are gone from the west bank, until all prisoners post Olso accords are released and of course my favorite one, until Israel allows right of return.
The current peace talks are fake. When I say fake, I mean although both sides are negotiating, in reality, they both no a peace deal will not be reached.

As Rokor says the resolutions used to set the scene are half a century old and should be torn up and new more modern ones put in their place. There should also be a time frame for agreement between the parties involved or the Un sits in private with neither side present and hammers out a deal that will be a take it or leave it affair. This of course will never come to pass because of other countries interests in the area. Israel has shown they can be honourable to an honourable opponent, the PA has yet to show it can be trusted. We need to see commitment to peace by both sides before we can make plans for the future. If something isn't done then that area will be in a state of war for ever, and the innocents will be the ones suffering.

 

[pbel]

The UN and everybody who writes clearly mention the 67 borders...

Well, they don't exist. Aren't The UN and everybody who writes ..., funny arseholes?

Not only that no one on planet earth including the UN and USA have ever recognized any annexations past the green line....

While the EU subsidizes the turkish occupation of the Northern Cyprus, funny too.

Here is the reality the UN does not mention any '67 borders at all. Here is the official release

S/RES/242 (1967) of 22 November 1967

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

What were those areas Ptonaill? West Bank, Jerusalem Etc.?

 

[Kondor3]

Oh, Goodie, more squabbling over Charmin... a.k.a. UN resolutions...

 

[pbel]

et al,

As has been said before, in the discussion group - and in the news, the current talks had a so-so chance of success. Peace cannot really be achieved if neither side is ready to compromise. And it doesn't appear that either side is will (so far) to make the hard choices.

So, it looks like the Palestinians will lose out again on the potential for stability that will bring economic prosperity to their piece of the region.

The status quo looks like it will return and the Israeli Settlement Programs will continue on --- until the noose tightens and the Palestinians choke on the cord around their crippled economy; a process they set in motion more than half a century ago.

In the mean time, while the Israelis the lack of a meaningful agreement with the Palestinians has an economic impact on the entire region. Israel costs to provide gas and oil to the adjacent states, without well rounded peace settlement with the Palestinians, limits the potential sales to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey. So it is going to be forced in building a superstructure that favors trade with Europe. This further and unnecessarily penalizes the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Neither the Gaza Government or the West Bank Government can afford to live indefinitely on the handouts from the US and other Arab League contributors. You run into what they call "donor fatigue." And the factional Palestinians cannot generate sufficient revenues to maintain the current standard of living. Since the discover of the Levantine basin of the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, donor aid for the Palestinians has dropped by 40% or more; with donor disappointment in the peace talk process and meaningful results.

Israel has already launched a gas platform operations (March 2013) in the Tamar gas field (estimated 9.1 trillion cubic feet of natural gas) in the Mediterranean, just east of the Leviathan Field, just 24 miles off the port city of Ashkelon, and the Tamar-1 Rig has delivered more than 28 Million Cubic Feet per Day of gas during peak demand periods. There are plans for a totally of 6 Rigs, in just the Tamar Field.

The lack of progress in the Talks will inflect pain on both sides of the table, but more so on the Palestinian side. It is in everyone's best interest in the immediate region, for the Israelis and Palestinians to come to some sort of arrangement. We need to break the mold that always brings us back to UN Agreements and policy stances that are a half-century old. They have long sing lost relevance as some form of viable solution or negotiation parameter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, the Palestinians have withstood everything Israel has imposed on them and they will absorb the pain as they have for 65 years...They will pursue their claims at the UN and wait out Israel until hell freezes over.

Its Israel's move: get out of the 67 pre-emptive land-grab or stay in a war of attrition with her all neighbors...

 

[RoccoR]

pbel, et al,

There are very few people that willing accept the suffering, pain, and humiliation, as are the Palestinian in pursuit of their brand of justice. Over and over again, they have chosen force and violence over peaceful means and the Rule of Law.

Rocco, the Palestinians have withstood everything Israel has imposed on them and they will absorb the pain as they have for 65 years...They will pursue their claims at the UN and wait out Israel until hell freezes over.

Its Israel's move: get out of the 67 pre-emptive land-grab or stay in a war of attrition with her all neighbors...

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Palestinians opened the conflict in 1948, and were instrumental in the perpetuation of the conflict for more than half a century. But in doing so, what contribution have they made to the advancement and prosperity of their culture; the Arab Palestinian. How much better-off today are the Palestinians than what they would have been if they had joined in peace with the implementation of the Resolution. And in being in conflict, how much better-off will they tomorrow, next week, next year, a decade from now, in their choice to actively continue the conflict?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

et al,

As has been said before, in the discussion group - and in the news, the current talks had a so-so chance of success. Peace cannot really be achieved if neither side is ready to compromise. And it doesn't appear that either side is will (so far) to make the hard choices.

So, it looks like the Palestinians will lose out again on the potential for stability that will bring economic prosperity to their piece of the region.

The status quo looks like it will return and the Israeli Settlement Programs will continue on --- until the noose tightens and the Palestinians choke on the cord around their crippled economy; a process they set in motion more than half a century ago.

In the mean time, while the Israelis the lack of a meaningful agreement with the Palestinians has an economic impact on the entire region. Israel costs to provide gas and oil to the adjacent states, without well rounded peace settlement with the Palestinians, limits the potential sales to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey. So it is going to be forced in building a superstructure that favors trade with Europe. This further and unnecessarily penalizes the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Neither the Gaza Government or the West Bank Government can afford to live indefinitely on the handouts from the US and other Arab League contributors. You run into what they call "donor fatigue." And the factional Palestinians cannot generate sufficient revenues to maintain the current standard of living. Since the discover of the Levantine basin of the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, donor aid for the Palestinians has dropped by 40% or more; with donor disappointment in the peace talk process and meaningful results.

Israel has already launched a gas platform operations (March 2013) in the Tamar gas field (estimated 9.1 trillion cubic feet of natural gas) in the Mediterranean, just east of the Leviathan Field, just 24 miles off the port city of Ashkelon, and the Tamar-1 Rig has delivered more than 28 Million Cubic Feet per Day of gas during peak demand periods. There are plans for a totally of 6 Rigs, in just the Tamar Field.

The lack of progress in the Talks will inflect pain on both sides of the table, but more so on the Palestinian side. It is in everyone's best interest in the immediate region, for the Israelis and Palestinians to come to some sort of arrangement. We need to break the mold that always brings us back to UN Agreements and policy stances that are a half-century old. They have long sing lost relevance as some form of viable solution or negotiation parameter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, the Palestinians have withstood everything Israel has imposed on them and they will absorb the pain as they have for 65 years...They will pursue their claims at the UN and wait out Israel until hell freezes over.

Its Israel's move: get out of the 67 pre-emptive land-grab or stay in a war of attrition with her all neighbors...

You don't get it do you?? Having no peace deal is wayyy worse for the Palestinians. It means they don't get their country and will remain blockaded in Gaza and living under Israeli rule in the West Bank.
Israel can play the waiting till hell freezes over game too.

Oh, and this whole 'war of attrition' bullshit is such.....bullshit. I don't know why you bring it up.

 

[GISMYS]

BIBLE PROPHECY WRITTEN OVER 3000 YEARS AGO FOR TODAY!!!==NATIONS AGAINST TINY ISRAEL NOTHING NEW!!!!===PSALM 83:1-5==
O God, do not remain silent.
Do not turn a deaf ear to me.
Do not keep quiet, O God.
Look, your enemies are in an uproar.
Those who hate you hold their heads high.
They make plans in secret against your people
and plot together against those you treasure.
They say, “Let’s wipe out their nation
so that the name of Israel will no longer be remembered.”
They agree completely on their plan.
They form an alliance against you:

 

[pbel]

pbel, et al,

There are very few people that willing accept the suffering, pain, and humiliation, as are the Palestinian in pursuit of their brand of justice. Over and over again, they have chosen force and violence over peaceful means and the Rule of Law.

Rocco, the Palestinians have withstood everything Israel has imposed on them and they will absorb the pain as they have for 65 years...They will pursue their claims at the UN and wait out Israel until hell freezes over.

Its Israel's move: get out of the 67 pre-emptive land-grab or stay in a war of attrition with her all neighbors...

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Palestinians opened the conflict in 1948, and were instrumental in the perpetuation of the conflict for more than half a century. But in doing so, what contribution have they made to the advancement and prosperity of their culture; the Arab Palestinian. How much better-off today are the Palestinians than what they would have been if they had joined in peace with the implementation of the Resolution. And in being in conflict, how much better-off will they tomorrow, next week, next year, a decade from now, in their choice to actively continue the conflict?

Most Respectfully,
R

Your idea of ending the conflict is surrender to Israeli demands by acquiescing to their illegal annexations in the 67 pre-emptive land grab...

Not going to happen...Resistance will continue for a thousand years if need be, that's how the Arabs have defeated technologically superior military forces in the past...

As far as they blah blah blah did not accept an invasion...who wouldn't fight to defend their homes?

The colonists cause you support is an anachronism in Human Development. Israel needs to be accepted if she does good deeds not steal land.